Shockey backlash begins

[mickeef2]

Funny, I was looking at the topic last night and I see you're name at the bottom and I figured it was only a matter of time before you wrote something, knowing your love of Jeremy .

 

What is annoying about it is, that Shockey has had nothing to do with the ball slipping out of Eli's hands as he's about to throw, fumbling the ball at the snap and throwing downfield to wide receivers. These are all issues that have not occured during Eli's hot streak, yet the issue that Shockey is out hurt and the Giants have played better just seems a little convienent to put the blame on Shockey for when times were bad. From what I remember, Shockey missed the Skins and the Bills games and Eli played badly in both.

 

Obviously, this is a guy who stirs a lot of passion in Giant fans, both for and against. I'm in no way saying Boss is the answer, or even that we need to cut Shockey loose this offseason. However, I think Nem's contention that he's a 4-time Pro-Bowler and thus a great player is a little misleading. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, I believe one of those appearances was as an injury replacement (meaning he was the 3rd best tight end in the conference), and at least one other was based solely on reputation (this happens all the time). Plain and simple, this guy has not lived up to his potential, and I don't think there's a Giant fan out there who can argue with me on that point. He could have been the greatest tight end to ever play the game. He has also been a vocal malcontent, which is pretty tough to take from a guy that doesn't show up to mini-camp and makes as many mistakes on the field as he does.

[mickeef2]

For all the Shockey defenders, I can put it into very simple terms:

 

If he were a Cowboy, or an Eagle, how would you feel about him? Try to honestly tell me that you'd think he's great, and that you admire his "fire". You'd think he's an overrated jerk.

[charlietags]

I agree that Shock and Eli rarely seem to be on the same page.

I've always liked running two tights anyway, and with two good receiving tightends there are plenty of options.

Couldn't agree more Nes, but I am starting to think that we could actually trade Shockey for something big a first rounder or at least a 2nd round pick.

 

[JMFP]

If we could trade Shockey for a nasty safety that could cover, I'd be thrilled. Again, Shockey's a great player. I wouldn't have bought my Dad an authentic Shockey jersey if I didn't like the guy. But this season is a perfect example of why we need to think about life without Shockey.

 

Everybody tells me what a "warrior" Shockey is.....yeah, great, next time they start equipping the defense with shields and battleaxes, let's make sure to get Shockey back on the field. Until then, I'm good with a TE that runs a proper route and catches the ball.

 

Regardless, next season is going to be different for Eli and Shockey. Eli's proven he can move the team without Tiki, and now the same goes for Shockey.

 

 

[BIGBLUE01]

You mean when Gilbride actually started calling games properly?

 

BTW, I was just kidding, I love Shock.

 

And I loved Hilliard too. He was decent player but I met him and his wife and he signed a bunch of things for my son.

 

 

[Sephiroth]

Couldn't agree more Nes, but I am starting to think that we could actually trade Shockey for something big a first rounder or at least a 2nd round pick.

 

I'm thinking we'd get a third rounder for him. If we could somehow land a first or second, I'd be pretty happy with that.

 

The Raiders would love a guy like Shockey, especially with a new, young QB.

[boohyah]

For all the Shockey defenders, I can put it into very simple terms:

 

If he were a Cowboy, or an Eagle, how would you feel about him? Try to honestly tell me that you'd think he's great, and that you admire his "fire". You'd think he's an overrated jerk.

 

Absolutely not. Shockey's a good tight end Mickeef. You don't like him because he's too demonstrative, he speaks out too much. We've done this before. I don't like TO's personality, or Randy Moss, or Jerry Rice for that matter, but they are talented football players playing for other teams that I don't support and I can accept that. While you can't put Shockey on that level, you can't take away from the fact that he's a good tight end.

[so-cal dub]

Shockey aint going anywhere. Boss is having a tremendous rookie year, but he is far from the threat Shockey brings.

[NeMesiS]

Obviously, this is a guy who stirs a lot of passion in Giant fans, both for and against. I'm in no way saying Boss is the answer, or even that we need to cut Shockey loose this offseason. However, I think Nem's contention that he's a 4-time Pro-Bowler and thus a great player is a little misleading. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, I believe one of those appearances was as an injury replacement (meaning he was the 3rd best tight end in the conference), and at least one other was based solely on reputation (this happens all the time). Plain and simple, this guy has not lived up to his potential, and I don't think there's a Giant fan out there who can argue with me on that point. He could have been the greatest tight end to ever play the game. He has also been a vocal malcontent, which is pretty tough to take from a guy that doesn't show up to mini-camp and makes as many mistakes on the field as he does.

Sorry Mickeef2, with all due respect. I think you have the whole Pro-Bowl injury backwards. it was Jeremy Shockey who was injured and didn't participate in last year pro-bowl, which allowed Whitten to play. (In fact, he did it twice) Each year that jeremy Shockey was selected in the Pro-Bowl, he was the amongs the leaders in Rec, Yard and TD.

 

 

Last year, I echoed similar sentiments saying we should get what we can for either Shock or Plax, because one "me-first" guy on each team is enough, and Shock was dropping what seemed like a lot of balls.

But this is what I'm talking about. Shockey had 5 drop balls last year. However 'Shock was dropping what seemed like a lot of balls'. Hey Sephiroth, I bet you think Antonio Gates and Ike Hillary have great hands too, huh?

 

I think people have already made up their minds about Shockey. It's doesn't matter what happens from now on, people are always going to hate him. I think we Giants fans are funny that way. it's like, we collectively roll the dice and see whether we are going like the player or not.

 

 

 

 

[Ditto]

You could see it creeping up on this board, but now you've got Marino/Collinsworth and carter suggesting that Eli is playing better without him "demanding" the ball. Now I'm reading DR Z and they are discussing how he was responsible for picks.

 

Glad to see that one player may have had this much effect. watch this stone continue to gather moss.

It was my thinking all along with Burress and Shockey bitching all the time, negating any leadership and confidence Eli was trying to build on.

 

"Negating" is there such a word?

[Lughead]

I dont get this argument "with Shockey gone Eli is a better QB"

 

Shockey getting injured has absolutely nothing to do with Eli's success as of late.

 

ELI MANNING Passing

CP/AT      YDS      TD      INT

18/53    184      1      0       V.S. Washington  Shockey breaks leg
                                         
7/15      111      0      2     V.S. Buffalo         Boss 0 Catches 0 Yards 0TD's
                            
22/32    251      4      1     V.S. NE               Boss 4 Catches 50 Yards 1 TD  
                                          
20/27    185      2       0     V.S. TB            Boss  2 Catches 14 Yards 0 TD's
                                         
12/18    163      2       0     V.S. Dallas         Boss  1 Catch  19 Yards 0 TD's

 

Shockey Stats for the year as of the Washington Game were 57 Catches 619 yards and 3 TD's

Eli has not been putting up A great deal of yards in the last five games he has instead started to manage a game not forcing the ball were it does not need to go he is taking what he is been given and I feel that the game Finally came into focus for him ,You know the switch was turned on so to speak , everything started to click, he could read the field better as a play developed. what ever you want to call it he has started to get it . You can clearly see this in his INT numbers that are way down as opposed to what they were mid season. he had 15 INT's before the last Washington game and only 3 in the last 5 games. 2 of them were in the bad weather in Buffalo.

 

I also Like the fact that you can see his fire on and of the field with his team mates and the media he is not so hum drum or Eeyore-ish good things are about to come his/our way we may not win it all this year but we have the foundation to go far in the future.

 

Anyway all this is is Shockey haters looking for an excuse to get rid of Shockey .

[BIGBLUE01]

I dont get this argument "with Shockey gone Eli is a better QB"

 

Shockey getting injured has absolutely nothing to do with Eli's success as of late.

 

ELI MANNING Passing

CP/AT      YDS      TD      INT

18/53    184      1      0       V.S. Washington  Shockey breaks leg
                                         
7/15      111      0      2     V.S. Buffalo         Boss 0 Catches 0 Yards 0TD's
                            
22/32    251      4      1     V.S. NE               Boss 4 Catches 50 Yards 1 TD  
                                          
20/27    185      2       0     V.S. TB            Boss  2 Catches 14 Yards 0 TD's
                                         
12/18    163      2       0     V.S. Dallas         Boss  1 Catch  19 Yards 0 TD's

 

Shockey Stats for the year as of the Washington Game were 57 Catches 619 yards and 3 TD's

Eli has not been putting up A great deal of yards in the last five games he has instead started to manage a game not forcing the ball were it does not need to go he is taking what he is been given and I feel that the game Finally came into focus for him ,You know the switch was turned on so to speak , everything started to click, he could read the field better as a play developed. what ever you want to call it he has started to get it . You can clearly see this in his INT numbers that are way down as opposed to what they were mid season. he had 15 INT's before the last Washington game and only 3 in the last 5 games. 2 of them were in the bad weather in Buffalo.

 

I also Like the fact that you can see his fire on and of the field with his team mates and the media he is not so hum drum or Eeyore-ish good things are about to come his/our way we may not win it all this year but we have the foundation to go far in the future.

 

Anyway all this is is Shockey haters looking for an excuse to get rid of Shockey .

 

Didnt Boss get another TD in one of those?

[Lughead]

Didnt Boss get another TD in one of those?

 

2 for 31 1 td in the Washington game

[BIGBLUE01]

2 for 31 1 td in the Washington game

 

So Shock played 10 games w/ 3 TD's, and Boss played 5 1/4 and got 2? Not bad for Kevin. Im mean, dont get rid of Shock, Im dying to see them in a two TE set. But thats good.

[Sephiroth]

But this is what I'm talking about. Shockey had 5 drop balls last year. However 'Shock was dropping what seemed like a lot of balls'. Hey Sephiroth, I bet you think Antonio Gates and Ike Hillary have great hands too, huh?

 

I know it wasn't a lot; is just seemed like a lot because he was always dropping them in clutch spots (4th downs, 3rd-and-longs). Then next series, Eli sails a ball over his head and it's hand-waving and bitching on the sidelines. His hands have been really good so far this year and he doesn't say as much stupid things to the media (besides his 'well, that's how I play, I'm not gonna stop playing like that' excuse for the ball-spiking incident), but it still seems like every time you see him on the sideline he's upset about something. I understand why people like him, but he's just not my kind of player, just like I'm not a fan of a T.O. or a Keyshawn Johnson no matter how many plays they make.

 

I don't watch enough Chargers games to have an opinion on Antonio Gates, but Hilliard seemed like he had decent hands when we was here.

[xxi-xxv]

No one should ever contend that Boss at this stage is better than SHockey, its just ludicrous. Such would be silly to contend that Shockey is better than Whitten, Gates or Gonzalez(I know I know our HC does not know how to use the TE), but it cannot be ignored the whispers that surrond this team in regards to Shockeys inability to know where he is supposed to be. Like someone I believe pointed out, Bob Papa said on his Sririus show a little birdie told him that SHockey runs the wrong route "at least 50% of the time".

 

Hopefully this talk drives Shockey to become a better student, as it did when his blocking was questioned. Like it was said earlier, I am anxious to see both of them next year.

[NeMesiS]

I know it wasn't a lot; is just seemed like a lot because he was always dropping them in clutch spots (4th downs, 3rd-and-longs). Then next series, Eli sails a ball over his head and it's hand-waving and bitching on the sidelines. His hands have been really good so far this year and he doesn't say as much stupid things to the media (besides his 'well, that's how I play, I'm not gonna stop playing like that' excuse for the ball-spiking incident), but it still seems like every time you see him on the sideline he's upset about something. I understand why people like him, but he's just not my kind of player, just like I'm not a fan of a T.O. or a Keyshawn Johnson no matter how many plays they make.

 

I don't watch enough Chargers games to have an opinion on Antonio Gates, but Hilliard seemed like he had decent hands when we was here.

 

 

But that's the problem right there... I'm telling you. We Giants fan do that to our own players. Ike Hillary was ALWAYS among the leaders in drop balls. Hell, I remember Iky leading the leadgue with only having played 10 games. But yet, most of the Giants fan are under the impression he had great hands. Why is that? In fact, when Jim asked to pick up his game. Iky went to the media and started to bad mouthing Jim. (BTW, Ike did that alot). But yet, Ike is always considered to be a team player. why is that? Ike was considered 3rd down coverting machine...but yet the Giants was among the worse on 3rd down covertion. Why is that? Why is it that a player, who was selected 7th overall, who dropped alot of balls in key moments, was slower than my grandmother, who always got hurt, who commited alot of holding penalties, who critize his coaches, who didn't scored alot of TD, who didn't give a flying fuck if we won or lost, who was never, ever, ever, not even close to be consider among the best WR in the game, and we all know was a bust, was loved so much by Giants fans. But yet we have a 4 time Pro-Bowler, and are always trying to get rid him. Why is that?

 

But I betcha you don't remember any of those things. But I bet you can pin-point every of Shockeys 3 drops he had this year. That you'll focus on, right?

 

I think what the problem is that most Giants fan don't like players who carry the emotions on their sleeves. Giants fans don't like players who isn't going back down to no one. I remember when our offense use to be horrible and whenever we played against a physical defense, our players use to duck their heads and get their asses kicked. When Shockey came, we finally had a player on offense who looked at the defense and told them "Fuck You...Kiss my fucking ass. You're not pushing us around anymore." Trust me, it won't be long until Giants fans start to turn on Brandon Jacobs, Antonio Pierce, Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Ross..because Giants fans don't like those type of players. We, for whatever season, prefer players who like get punched in the face and then go run and hide. Well, here's one Giants fan who tire of those type of players.

[xxi-xxv]

But that's the problem right there... I'm telling you. We Giants fan do that to our own players. Ike Hillary was ALWAYS among the leaders in drop balls. Hell, I remember Iky leading the leadgue with only having played 10 games. But yet, most of the Giants fan are under the impression he had great hands. Why is that? In fact, when Jim asked to pick up his game. Iky went to the media and started to bad mouthing Jim. (BTW, Ike did that alot). But yet, Ike is always considered to be a team player. why is that? Ike was considered 3rd down coverting machine...but yet the Giants was among the worse on 3rd down covertion. Why is that? Why is it that a player, who was selected 7th overall, who dropped alot of balls in key moments, was slower than my grandmother, who always got hurt, who commited alot of holding penalties, who critize his coaches, who didn't scored alot of TD, who didn't give a flying fuck if we won or lost, who was never, ever, ever, not even close to be consider among the best WR in the game, and we all know was a bust, was loved so much by Giants fans. But yet we have a 4 time Pro-Bowler, and are always trying to get rid him. Why is that?

 

But I betcha you don't remember any of those things. But I bet you can pin-point every of Shockeys 3 drops he had this year. That you'll focus on, right?

 

I think what the problem is that most Giants fan don't like players who carry the emotions on their sleeves. Giants fans don't like players who isn't going back down to no one. I remember when our offense use to be horrible and whenever we played against a physical defense, our players use to duck their heads and get their asses kicked. When Shockey came, we finally had a player on offense who looked at the defense and told them "Fuck You...Kiss my fucking ass. You're not pushing us around anymore." Trust me, it won't be long until Giants fans start to turn on Brandon Jacobs, Antonio Pierce, Osi Umenyiora, Aaron Ross..because Giants fans don't like those type of players. We, for whatever season, prefer players who like get punched in the face and then go run and hide. Well, here's one Giants fan who tire of those type of players.

 

Nem here is a list of beloved Giant players. LT, Carson, Banks, Simms, Martin, Huff, Robustelli, Catkavage, Tittle, Connerly, Grier, Brown, Oates, Benson, Lockhart, Oj Anderson, Bavaro etc et etc. Each one of them was as nasty and get in your face as Shockey ever was or ever has been. Sorry Nem, if you think Nyers(the core of this teams fan base)prefer pussys as opposed to warriors, I am sorry to say this, but you have no clue.

 

Shockey can drop 100 balls, he plays hard and always wants to win. I do not care even that he celebrates too much, asll I ask is know what your job is and what you have to do each play. The NFL is not sandlot ball, its structured and you have to know what to do in that structure.

[gateb]

I don't think Shockey's value is high enough right now to trade. You guys are nuts if you think we can get a first day for him. And a three isn't worth it.

 

Shockey's not nearly the same guy we got when we drafted him. He doesn't have that same ability to break tackles. I remember one game at the stadium we put him out in the open on a play where he usually breaks the tackle he got tackled pretty easily.

 

He's so beat up from the injuries he's sustained, and a broken fibula isn't going to help. He's one hell of a run blocker, that's what I think he has going for him right now.