Its not the play calling, its not the coaches

[Nesta]

I blame whoever makes the gatorade, I mean everyone else has been blamed....

 

Maybe Eli's girl has been coming to the games....

[fishgutmartyr]

I blame whoever makes the gatorade, I mean everyone else has been blamed....

 

Gilbride is the Offensive Coordinator. He was also Eli's QB coach for three years. He should have a handle on Eli's strengths and weaknesses by now, and if he doesn't, that's on him. And there is a huge difference between saying Gilbride might be part of the problem, and blaming him for the problem.

 

But if you want, we could get into Gilbide's habit of invariably following patterns such as when running for 8-9 yards on first down, he will pass on second down. He doesn't break it up with the occasional run--he will pass. I would so love to see a draw. And if that fails, he will run on third down. He does this so consistently, I would cheat on second down towards the pass as I'm sure most DCs do, and cheat on third down against the run.

 

While I realize that 2nd and short is a good time to pass, so does everyone else; unless you're first name is peyton or tom, you are not going to succeed consistently unless you're willing to go against the grain occasionally. Gilbride simply doesn't.

 

If he does manage the first down, his next series of downs will be passes. With a run offense ranked 4th in the league.

 

He also runs on second down if a first down pass is an incompletion on his first set of downs. Which means we are not getting maximum value on the plays when we do run. Then its back to the pass on 3rd.

 

I'm sure other teams do this too; the thing is, they don't do it with rock-solid consistency and borderline predictability. He's also probably playing the percentage game; which is fine, so long as you keep defenses honest. But these tendencies don't even work towards our strengths.

 

I was never enamored with Ron Erhardt's "run, run, pass" offense, but at least that made sense with the personnel we had.

[xxi-xxv]

I don't get it. You're apparently in agreement with me, and yet you still think I'm making excuses for Eli?

 

Unless you have a time machine, tell me what other way we can get success out of the kid other than to use his strengths?

 

I say repeatedly that Eli will be a good quarterback, hell you just said yourself 'you've got no problem with him and you think he can get better. As far as I can tell we're on the same page. You even stated you think Gilbride is 'not very good'.

 

Now tell me how it's 'making excuses for the qb', when one points out that the offensive coordinator is foregoing the greatest strength of the quarterback (not to mention how many times he's completely ignored the running game when it was successful) and trying to force an offensive plan that just doesn't work week in and week out? How long would you do it?

 

And you expect me to believe that this complete ignorance on Gilbride's part has no bearing on the qb position?

Maybe Eli is mediocre or even sub-mediocre, so what? We're stuck with him. Learn your lesson about forcing shit on him that he can't do, and work on what he can do. It's that simple.

 

I am sick of the exuses for ELI. WHen he misses hideously on an intermediate route the exuses wagon comes by and its "well he is a better deep ball passer", when the Giants then throw deep too often its "gilbride and the staff throw deep too much". It's like what the fuck is it ELI lovers? Is he strength downfield passing still or does he suck at that too? The thing is what does he do that well? He has absoluetly ZERO touch on any of his passes, I have never seen a QB so poorly execute a screen pass. HIs accuracy in the middle of the field is mind boggilingly low. I get the point in using his strengths, but the fact of the matter is there is just not a whole hell of a lot of them. You cannot run an entire games plans passing attack predicated on play action, if by some chance the run game is not there you are screwed. I thnk last week the coaches finnally said "fuck it let him hand off all day", that works fine vs the 31st run defense in the league and a small one at that, but the key is what does ELI do when next week he sees Tampa, with 8 in the BOX the corners up pressing and they dare him to throw. DO not say play action either, because if you think it Monte Kiffin did a week ago. Sooner or later its time for ELI to make some plays. Again I think he has it in him, but this idea that his shitty play is all the fault of his coaches is assinine. You can tell by simply looking at how he plays that there has been no improvement. Believe me, I was a huge ELI supporter/apologist for 3 years, I will not do it anymore, its time for him to start making plays and doing the things he is asked to do, because quite frankly this season, he has done very little good and in fact has regressed in some areas(ball security, 3rddown passing etc).

[randoff]

I am sick of the exuses for ELI. WHen he misses hideously on an intermediate route the exuses wagon comes by and its "well he is a better deep ball passer"....It's like what the fuck is it ELI lovers? Is he strength downfield passing still or does he suck at that too? The thing is what does he do that well? .....said "fuck it let him hand off all day", that works fine vs the 31st run defense in the league and a small one at that, but the key is what does ELI do when next week he sees Tampa, with 8 in the BOX the corners up pressing and they dare him to throw. DO not say play action either, because if you think it Monte Kiffin did a week ago. Sooner or later its time for ELI to make some plays. Again I think he has it in him, its time for him to start making plays and doing the things he is asked to do, because quite frankly this season, he has done very little good and in fact has regressed in some areas(ball security, 3rddown passing etc).

I've been saying this for weeks....the Giants won 10 games in spite of Eli. I don't want a John Elway-esque QB but can we get some production out of the #1 pick (plus the price they paid for him?)?

[feefifoefum]

I've been saying this for weeks....the Giants won 10 games in spite of Eli. I don't want a John Elway-esque QB but can we get some production out of the #1 pick (plus the price they paid for him?)?

 

This guy can't even "manage" a game right now. Sometimes I wonder if Eli even likes football, or if he just felt he had to follow in daddy's and big bro's footsteps.

[randoff]

This guy can't even "manage" a game right now. Sometimes I wonder if Eli even likes football, or if he just felt he had to follow in daddy's and big bro's footsteps.

Sometimes that shows when he takes that play clock all the way down to :02 seconds and "omaha-ing" all over the place JUST to hand off to Droghns???? I guess you call that 'pre reading' defenses? Or setting up blocking assignments? Anyway, when are we gonna see Eli actually STEP into a throw instead of chucking up a duck? And it's been four years and Eli is still good for that pass off of a linemans helmet. You're a PRO QB...find a throwing lane and throw the ball with velocity. Why all of the tentativeness? You could be right....maybe it's too much for him to be a NYG QB????

[xxi-xxv]

While out and about today I was listening to Sirius NFL radio and I heard one of the hosts say that the Giants have removed ELi's ability to audible out of the play. He now must run the play that is called and live with it. They cited the 3 throws to start the Miami game in the 2nd half in the rain, where they called 3 runs and ELI audibled out to 3 passes as a game they thought about it and now they are doing. Best coaching move all year IMO.

[randoff]

While out and about today I was listening to Sirius NFL radio and I heard one of the hosts say that the Giants have removed ELi's ability to audible out of the play. He now must run the play that is called and live with it. They cited the 3 throws to start the Miami game in the 2nd half in the rain, where they called 3 runs and ELI audibled out to 3 passes as a game they thought about it and now they are doing. Best coaching move all year IMO.

Hallelujah! And the Giants have three good RBs, an O line built for run blocking AND decent defense....

....Eli truly needs to get up to the line, run the play and keep the 'flow' of the game steady. That burning TWO timeouts back to back shit has got to stop, ELI!!!

[fishgutmartyr]

While out and about today I was listening to Sirius NFL radio and I heard one of the hosts say that the Giants have removed ELi's ability to audible out of the play. He now must run the play that is called and live with it. They cited the 3 throws to start the Miami game in the 2nd half in the rain, where they called 3 runs and ELI audibled out to 3 passes as a game they thought about it and now they are doing. Best coaching move all year IMO.

 

That was 8 games ago. That's a glacial response in NFL terms--assuming the host has any inside knowledge to begin with.

[xxi-xxv]

That was 8 games ago. That's a glacial response in NFL terms--assuming the host has any inside knowledge to begin with.

 

I think wht the host said was that eight games ago they thought about it and now they are doing it. Who cares, the less responsibility that Waldo has at this point the better, maybe it builds his confidence or makes him concentrate more on what is there than what could be there?

[Nesta]

I am sick of the exuses for ELI. WHen he misses hideously on an intermediate route the exuses wagon comes by and its "well he is a better deep ball passer", when the Giants then throw deep too often its "gilbride and the staff throw deep too much". It's like what the fuck is it ELI lovers? Is he strength downfield passing still or does he suck at that too? The thing is what does he do that well? He has absoluetly ZERO touch on any of his passes, I have never seen a QB so poorly execute a screen pass. HIs accuracy in the middle of the field is mind boggilingly low. I get the point in using his strengths, but the fact of the matter is there is just not a whole hell of a lot of them. You cannot run an entire games plans passing attack predicated on play action, if by some chance the run game is not there you are screwed. I thnk last week the coaches finnally said "fuck it let him hand off all day", that works fine vs the 31st run defense in the league and a small one at that, but the key is what does ELI do when next week he sees Tampa, with 8 in the BOX the corners up pressing and they dare him to throw. DO not say play action either, because if you think it Monte Kiffin did a week ago. Sooner or later its time for ELI to make some plays. Again I think he has it in him, but this idea that his shitty play is all the fault of his coaches is assinine. You can tell by simply looking at how he plays that there has been no improvement. Believe me, I was a huge ELI supporter/apologist for 3 years, I will not do it anymore, its time for him to start making plays and doing the things he is asked to do, because quite frankly this season, he has done very little good and in fact has regressed in some areas(ball security, 3rddown passing etc).

 

Give me a break. Show me where I was making excuses for Eli. I'm saying what you've already alluded to. He would be better in another system.

 

No shit you can't rely on play action all the time. You have to have success running the football. We've had that in 90% of all our games this year. We've got the 4th rated running offense. If we dedicated ourselves to the run, we'd likely have the best.

 

The Bills have the 27th ranked rush defense. Do you think it was that low before we put up nearly 300 yards on them last week? Tampa gives up approx 25 yards rushing a game less than Buffalo. Scary right.

 

I'm getting the impression that you're just bitching for the sake of bitching. You're not really interested in anything I'm saying, you just want to vent you're frustration. Like I said, if pointing out Gilbride's inept play calling is making an excuse for Eli, then everyone here is making excuses for Eli.

 

I've been saying the same thing for 3 years. We throw too much. We throw too much. We throw too much.

And everyone here has been commenting on how predictable our offense is for the last 2 years.

 

Stop 'making excuses' for why we don't run the ball and play to the kids strengths.

Gilbride lover.

 

 

 

[Nesta]

Gilbride is the Offensive Coordinator. He was also Eli's QB coach for three years. He should have a handle on Eli's strengths and weaknesses by now, and if he doesn't, that's on him. And there is a huge difference between saying Gilbride might be part of the problem, and blaming him for the problem.

 

But if you want, we could get into Gilbide's habit of invariably following patterns such as when running for 8-9 yards on first down, he will pass on second down. He doesn't break it up with the occasional run--he will pass. I would so love to see a draw. And if that fails, he will run on third down. He does this so consistently, I would cheat on second down towards the pass as I'm sure most DCs do, and cheat on third down against the run.

 

While I realize that 2nd and short is a good time to pass, so does everyone else; unless you're first name is peyton or tom, you are not going to succeed consistently unless you're willing to go against the grain occasionally. Gilbride simply doesn't.

 

If he does manage the first down, his next series of downs will be passes. With a run offense ranked 4th in the league.

 

He also runs on second down if a first down pass is an incompletion on his first set of downs. Which means we are not getting maximum value on the plays when we do run. Then its back to the pass on 3rd.

 

I'm sure other teams do this too; the thing is, they don't do it with rock-solid consistency and borderline predictability. He's also probably playing the percentage game; which is fine, so long as you keep defenses honest. But these tendencies don't even work towards our strengths.

 

I was never enamored with Ron Erhardt's "run, run, pass" offense, but at least that made sense with the personnel we had.

 

 

Excellent points. Unfortunately, this has already been brushed aside as an excuse for Eli.

[RandolphScott]

This will all be rectified once my resume is read by Jerry Reese as I sent

it in after Gilbride threw fifty two times in the wind while Jacobs ran for 130

that night. Mr. Reese will hire me based upon my extraordinary Madden online

record of 7-24, my superior knowledge of the Madden '08 playbook and the fact

that Buddy Ryan did NOT try to slug me on the sidelines.

 

I'm the next offensive coordinator of the Giants, surefire hire baby!

[fringe]

Is he strength downfield passing still or does he suck at that too? The thing is what does he do that well? He has absoluetly ZERO touch on any of his passes, I have never seen a QB so poorly execute a screen pass. HIs accuracy in the middle of the field is mind boggilingly low. I get the point in using his strengths, but the fact of the matter is there is just not a whole hell of a lot of them. You cannot run an entire games plans passing attack predicated on play action, if by some chance the run game is not there you are screwed. I thnk last week the coaches finnally said "fuck it let him hand off all day", that works fine vs the 31st run defense in the league and a small one at that, but the key is what does ELI do when next week he sees Tampa, with 8 in the BOX the corners up pressing and they dare him to throw. DO not say play action either, because if you think it Monte Kiffin did a week ago. Sooner or later its time for ELI to make some plays. Again I think he has it in him, but this idea that his shitty play is all the fault of his coaches is assinine. You can tell by simply looking at how he plays that there has been no improvement.

i find it hard to disagree with any of this, much as i'd like to.

[fishgutmartyr]

I think wht the host said was that eight games ago they thought about it and now they are doing it. Who cares, the less responsibility that Waldo has at this point the better, maybe it builds his confidence or makes him concentrate more on what is there than what could be there?

 

 

If they truly want to take responsibility off of him, RUN MORE. As you have said, he is a warm weather QB. That's not an excuse, that's apparently a reality based on the stats.

 

I simply don't see how taking away audibles will improve his confidence. If anything, it will strip him of any shards he has left--how do you expect his confidence to build if your telling him that he can't do the job? Frankly, after the shit he deals with the press, fans, and now the coaches(assuming the host knows what he's talking about), I'm kind of surprised he doesn't spend the offseason rocking in a corner playing Suzanne Vega cds.

 

Frankly, I think its bullshit. Talk about making excuses for bad play calling. Did he audiblize 52 times against Washington? Did he start off the Buffalo game passing, audiblizing off of scripted plays--passing plays!?! I swear, I thought for a while that Gilbride was just going to continue passing last week no matter what the weather--just to prove he was justified the week before.

 

He's proven to be a pretty good QB in September and October. Fine, emphasize him on offense then--it keeps our running game relatively fresh for the end of the season when we really need it, and makes the most of our wide receivers while they are still able to stand unassisted. But when the weather starts going bad, run the ball. You know that's how it needs to be done in the Meadowlands, xxi-xxv, you've been there. Why blow up what works simply to maintain a "balance?"

 

 

From Wikipedia:

Upon joining the Steelers it was assumed he would help quarterback Kordell Stewart develop into a star. One NFL personnel director said, "Sending Gilbride to help Kordell is like sending the Lusitania to rescue the Titanic.

[Hampton27 missed]

And yet Ben (with his great QB rating) will be sitting at homewatching Eli play next week against the Cowboys......So much for the QB rating!