Yankees will win AL East

[LorfTVP]

How so? In the exact same at bats (421) Jeter leads by far in almost ALL statistical categories. Not 2-3 years ago, RIGHT NOW in 2007! This is in Batting average, OBP, Doubles, RBI's, SLG Percentage, hits, homeruns, etc. etc. link

 

About the only thing he doesn't blow Reyes away in is Triples and Stolen bases. Which is why we all acknowledge reyes is a more gifted athlete. Just not even close to being a better player.

 

And that's not even taking in to account the intagibles that need not be explained. Please....Do not disrespect a HOF player like Jeter again by bringing up such a comparison.

 

Take a look at this. I think you were probably distracted by the players in between them because I feel like they're pretty damn close.

 

---------R---HR---RBI----SB----BB---K---BA----OBP---SLG---OPS

Jeter--66----7-----49---11/18--38---59--.330--.397----.456---.853

Reyes-72----7-----41---48/61--52---51--.302--.378---.449---.827

 

In the same equal 421 ABs, the two players are pretty much equal in every category except BA, SB, and BB.

 

I may be biased but stats don't lie, these guys are nearly identical. Now if you want to talk intangibles, let's talk about Jose Reyes reaching a base and messing with a pitcher's head...let's talk about how the hitters ahead of him can take advantage of the pitchers' lapses to knock in RBIs instead of having A-rod in after him. They pretty much reach base the same amount of time and hit the balls just as hard, only difference is that while Reyes has 48 SBs and causes endless trouble, Jeter is hurting his team with his SB attempts.

 

I'm not arguing with Jeter's intangibles either, but considering that these two guys are different types of players and that their style of play differs significantly between the leadoff and second spot, they're hard to compare. Disrespecting Jeter by comparing him to Reyes, that's just plain silly. Disrespect would be comparing Jeter to Cristian Guzman.

[so-cal dub]

Like I said, JINX

 

 

Thanks Foodho, it's all your fault. :brooding:

[BIGBLUE01]

How so? In the exact same at bats (421) Jeter leads by far in almost ALL statistical categories. Not 2-3 years ago, RIGHT NOW in 2007! This is in Batting average, OBP, Doubles, RBI's, SLG Percentage, hits, homeruns, etc. etc. link

 

About the only thing he doesn't blow Reyes away in is Triples and Stolen bases. Which is why we all acknowledge reyes is a more gifted athlete. Just not even close to being a better player.

 

And that's not even taking in to account the intagibles that need not be explained. Please....Do not disrespect a HOF player like Jeter again by bringing up such a comparison.

 

WHOOAAA!! Me thinks you got me WAAAYYY mixed up. Other than Thurman Munson and Donnie Baseball, there is no better Yankee in my eyes, than the man Derek Jeter. My son and I love the guy. He IS, Mr Intangible, and no one knows how to win better tha Jeter. But this particular season, Derek is not leading by far, he is pretty comparable. I know, I love the Yanks too, and I love Jeter, but I was just stating fact.

 

Fuck Reyes and the Metropolitans. Just thought Id throw that in there so you know where I stand.

[feefifoefum]

Take a look at this. I think you were probably distracted by the players in between them because I feel like they're pretty damn close.

 

---------R---HR---RBI----SB----BB---K---BA----OBP---SLG---OPS

Jeter--66----7-----49---11/18--38---59--.330--.397----.456---.853

Reyes-72----7-----41---48/61--52---51--.302--.378---.449---.827

 

In the same equal 421 ABs, the two players are pretty much equal in every category except BA, SB, and BB.

 

I may be biased but stats don't lie, these guys are nearly identical. Now if you want to talk intangibles, let's talk about Jose Reyes reaching a base and messing with a pitcher's head...let's talk about how the hitters ahead of him can take advantage of the pitchers' lapses to knock in RBIs instead of having A-rod in after him. They pretty much reach base the same amount of time and hit the balls just as hard, only difference is that while Reyes has 48 SBs and causes endless trouble, Jeter is hurting his team with his SB attempts.

 

I'm not arguing with Jeter's intangibles either, but considering that these two guys are different types of players and that their style of play differs significantly between the leadoff and second spot, they're hard to compare. Disrespecting Jeter by comparing him to Reyes, that's just plain silly. Disrespect would be comparing Jeter to Cristian Guzman.

 

As far as comparing them as shortstops, Yankee fans are right, you can't compare them.

Reyes has more range, a better arm, and doesn't dive into the stands unnecessarily after catching pop ups in fair territory.

 

Why has no Yankee fan pulled up fielding stats?

[LorfTVP]

As far as comparing them as shortstops, Yankee fans are right, you can't compare them.

Reyes has more range, a better arm, and doesn't dive into the stands unnecessarily after catching pop ups in fair territory.

 

Why has no Yankee fan pulled up fielding stats?

 

Because Yankee fans don't want to see the fielding stats.

 

Jeter - FPCT .970 (16th), RF 4.38 (16th), ZR .765 (24th), 13 errors

Reyes - FPCT .980 (6th), RF 3.92 (24th), ZR .890 (2nd), 7 errors

 

FPCT Fielding Pct.((PO + A) divided by (PO + A + E))

RF Range Factor ((PO + A) divided by innings)

ZR Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

 

The fielding win shares as of 6/28 have Jeter at 4.4 and Reyes at 4.

[xxi-xxv]

Jeter is a great player, I will not dispute any of that and these stats mean shit to me regardless of where they base Jose on paper vs Jeter. Jeter is great and has accomplished a lot and probably has more to come.

 

With that said, I think its completely sour grapes on certain peoples parts to call Jose things like "overrated" etc when like I said, he has begun his career at a record setting pace in terms of the PERSONAL accomplishments he has achieved.

 

I have zero tolerance for no objectivity and sometimes you just have to tip your cap to a great player, no matter what your feeling is towards that team. Calling pitchers with 2.84 ERA's and 9 wins shitty and a SS that has begun his career in record setting form overated shows zero objectivity.

[gateb]

The Yankees cant hit shitty left handed pitchers...Oliver Perez, Jarrod Washburn, Jorge De La Rosa, Haracio Ramirez ect. But none of them fell down flailing at a pitch like Overeyes did

You're a fucking idiot.

 

Every post in this thread that you have made is full of stupidity. I almost was going to feel bad for you that you were setting yourself up for dissappointment the way you were, but no sympathy anymore.

 

Maybe, just maybe if the Yanks acquire Gagne, then they can make a run for the division.

 

Face it, you'll have those big wins that'll involve double-digit run totals but will never have the consistency to overtake the division. Look at the bullpen. Who do you trust in that pen right now not named Mariano Rivera?

 

The Sox are loaded with pitching, and have hitters that know how to hit. Lowell, Youkilis, Ortiz, and Manny have turned it up of late. The lineup isn't exactly impressive, but they get the job done.

 

Shit like Overreyes and calling out oliver perez is exactly what makes you a mockery to the insightful yanks fans on the board...

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

First of all, I acknowlegde that Reyes is an excellent player, but the way Mets fans portray him and constantly want to compare him to Jeter is just ridiculous, thats why I say he is over rated. Its like if his career ended today, youd all put him in the HOF. The guy has had 2 great seasons (1 and a half actually) compared to Jeters 12. Im not saying thet Reyes wont have 12 great seasons, he should, but you cant compare the two. Jeter is 33 years old, Reyes is 24; comparing Jeter and Reyes right now is almost as ridiculous as the Phil Hughes/Roger Clemens comparisons.

 

 

And yes, Oliver Perez is a shitty left handed pitcher. He's having a lucky season this year, but his career numbers are awful. The guy has a career whip of 1.56 and that blows

 

 

excuse me for having faith in my team

[RandolphScott]

And yes, Oliver Perez is a shitty left handed pitcher. He's having a lucky season this year, but his career numbers are awful. The guy has a career whip of 1.56 and that blows

 

 

In 2004 he was THE premiere left handed pitcher in the MLB. Having

only threw 196 innings with 239 strikeouts. He then preceded to have

two down years with the Pirates and ever since Game 7 of the NLCS he

has been pretty money for us this year in big spots. Doesn't help to have

Rick Peterson either. Peterson had the Midas touch with both John Maine

and Ollie Perez. For someone who on this board proclaimed he could be a

major league scout because he's been around the game his whole life, your

pretty much DEAD wrong on Perez. If he were a Yankee, we'd have to kiss

his feet.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

In 2004 he was THE premiere left handed pitcher in the MLB. Having

only threw 196 innings with 239 strikeouts. He then preceded to have

two down years with the Pirates and ever since Game 7 of the NLCS he

has been pretty money for us this year in big spots. Doesn't help to have

Rick Peterson either. Peterson had the Midas touch with both John Maine

and Ollie Perez. For someone who on this board proclaimed he could be a

major league scout because he's been around the game his whole life, your

pretty much DEAD wrong on Perez. If he were a Yankee, we'd have to kiss

his feet.

He has been very lucky this season, he hasnt pitched nearly as well as his era and record says he has. He has been wildy effective and that wont last. He is a solid number 4 or 5 starter, and Id take him over Mussina, but he is no way ann ace. He had one great season sandwiched between 4 extremely shitty seasons. Until he puts together some good seasons consistantly and throws more strikes, then I will say his 2004 season was a fluke and he is the shitty pitcher his overall career numbers say he is. His stuff is decent, and he doesnt throw 95 mph, but the guy has no command of any of his pitches....and his mechanics are horrible. He is all over the place. Like I said, his career whip is 1.56, and thats awful

[RandolphScott]

He has been very lucky this season, he hasnt pitched nearly as well as his era and record says he has. He has been wildy effective and that wont last. He is a solid number 4 or 5 starter, and Id take him over Mussina, but he is no way ann ace. He had one great season sandwiched between 4 extremely shitty seasons. Until he puts together some good seasons consistantly and throws more strikes, then I will say his 2004 season was a fluke and he is the shitty pitcher his overall career numbers say he is. His stuff is decent, and he doesnt throw 95 mph, but the guy has no command of any of his pitches....and his mechanics are horrible. He is all over the place. Like I said, his career whip is 1.56, and thats awful

 

 

I think I'll take Rick Peterson's opinion on him than a wannabe

MLB scout, your opinion is duly noted though.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

[/b]

I think I'll take Rick Peterson's opinion on him than a wannabe

MLB scout, your opinion is duly noted though.

the same rick peterson who could fix victor zambrano in 15 minutes? And John Maine was always a highly touted pitcher so anything he is doing is not rick peterson as he pitched very well as a rookie september call up in the AL for the O's.

[RandolphScott]

the same rick peterson who could fix victor zambrano in 15 minutes? And John Maine was always a highly touted pitcher so anything he is doing is not rick peterson as he pitched very well as a rookie september call up in the AL for the O's.

 

 

Yep, the same Rick Peterson who could fix Zambrano in 10 minutes.

Maybe if he didn't have arm troubles when the Mets traded for him.

But I'm not crying over spilled milk.

 

John Maine wasn't that touted to be a throw in for the Anna Benson trade.

Omar could spin it any way he wants but Jorge Julio was the center of the

deal.

 

These are hardly "good" numbers.

2004 23 BAL AL 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 3.7 7 4 4 1 3 1 0 1 19 0 0 9.82 4.78 49 2.727

2005 24 BAL AL 2 3 10 8 0 0 1 0 40.0 39 30 28 8 24 24 1 0 184 0 1 6.30 4.14 66 1.575

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

its an extremely small scale, but he had the same good stuff he has now as he did then, he was just raw. Alot of great pitchers didnt have immediate success in their initial call ups. That doesnt change the fact that the stuff was there and he was a highly regarded prospect; there is no way that he gets 8 starts in the big leagues if he wasnt.

 

And just to make another point...it was the Baltimore Orioles who gave up on him, Id say theyre the worst managed (upper management) team over the past 8 or nine years.

[xxi-xxv]

He has been very lucky this season, he hasnt pitched nearly as well as his era and record says he has. He has been wildy effective and that wont last. He is a solid number 4 or 5 starter, and Id take him over Mussina, but he is no way ann ace. He had one great season sandwiched between 4 extremely shitty seasons. Until he puts together some good seasons consistantly and throws more strikes, then I will say his 2004 season was a fluke and he is the shitty pitcher his overall career numbers say he is. His stuff is decent, and he doesnt throw 95 mph, but the guy has no command of any of his pitches....and his mechanics are horrible. He is all over the place. Like I said, his career whip is 1.56, and thats awful

 

 

umm he does throw 95mph as any Met fan that watches all the games can tell you. At all times?No, but he does buzz it up that far.

 

Stick to waving the pinstripe pom poms and let the Met fans sort through what is reality and whats not.

[xxi-xxv]

First of all, I acknowlegde that Reyes is an excellent player, but the way Mets fans portray him and constantly want to compare him to Jeter is just ridiculous, thats why I say he is over rated. Its like if his career ended today, youd all put him in the HOF. The guy has had 2 great seasons (1 and a half actually) compared to Jeters 12. Im not saying thet Reyes wont have 12 great seasons, he should, but you cant compare the two. Jeter is 33 years old, Reyes is 24; comparing Jeter and Reyes right now is almost as ridiculous as the Phil Hughes/Roger Clemens comparisons.

And yes, Oliver Perez is a shitty left handed pitcher. He's having a lucky season this year, but his career numbers are awful. The guy has a career whip of 1.56 and that blows

excuse me for having faith in my team

 

Something tells me if Perez were on the Yanks and having this "lucky" season, we would be reading one of your threads outlining the 2010 staff headlined by Perez, Santana, Chamberlain, Hughes.

 

Perez has been very good in his year now with the Mets and has electric stuff from the left side.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

If Perez was on the Yankees, you think Id have him over Wang on any projected list?

 

 

I said Id take Perez over Mussina and he is having a good year, but he's gotten very lucky and as a Mets fan who watches all the games, you should know that better than anyone. What does he average like 110 pitches per 7 innings? Like I said, he is wildly effective....and that wont last forever.

[feefifoefum]

If Perez was on the Yankees, you think Id have him over Wang on any projected list?

I said Id take Perez over Mussina and he is having a good year, but he's gotten very lucky and as a Mets fan who watches all the games, you should know that better than anyone. What does he average like 110 pitches per 7 innings? Like I said, he is wildly effective....and that wont last forever.

 

I wouldn't say he's been lucky. Sometimes, he is wild. His best games are the ones in which he's not. (obviously) There was a game earlier this season, he started out by throwing 28 straight strikes. When he throws strikes, he's very tough. The thing with him is not letting a rough inning get to his head and opening the flood gates. There haven't been too many games this year where that has happened.

 

As far as Maine, Michael Kay seems to think he was "nothing" with the Orioles. That is the word he has used to describe him often. I'll admit I had never heard of him until he pitched for the Mets last year. Last year's Maine would throw only fastballs and wear himself out by the 5th inning. This year, he has good command of his secondary pitches and his fastball is devastatingly sneaky.

 

Rick Peterson deserves as much credit as anyone, other than Maine and Perez themselves, because before this season, one guy was unheard of, and one was known as "wildly ineffective". I don't think it's a coincidence that they both are now having the seasons they are having. They are young, hungry pitchers and someone has to be teaching them something.

[Herc]

I wouldn't say he's been lucky. Sometimes, he is wild. His best games are the ones in which he's not. (obviously) There was a game earlier this season, he started out by throwing 28 straight strikes. When he throws strikes, he's very tough. The thing with him is not letting a rough inning get to his head and opening the flood gates. There haven't been too many games this year where that has happened.

 

As far as Maine, Michael Kay seems to think he was "nothing" with the Orioles. That is the word he has used to describe him often. I'll admit I had never heard of him until he pitched for the Mets last year. Last year's Maine would throw only fastballs and wear himself out by the 5th inning. This year, he has good command of his secondary pitches and his fastball is devastatingly sneaky.

 

Rick Peterson deserves as much credit as anyone, other than Maine and Perez themselves, because before this season, one guy was unheard of, and one was known as "wildly ineffective". I don't think it's a coincidence that they both are now having the seasons they are having. They are young, hungry pitchers and someone has to be teaching them something.

 

kay, like most NY sports media members, knows nothing about teams or players outside of ny

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

I wouldn't say he's been lucky. Sometimes, he is wild. His best games are the ones in which he's not. (obviously) There was a game earlier this season, he started out by throwing 28 straight strikes. When he throws strikes, he's very tough. The thing with him is not letting a rough inning get to his head and opening the flood gates. There haven't been too many games this year where that has happened.

 

As far as Maine, Michael Kay seems to think he was "nothing" with the Orioles. That is the word he has used to describe him often. I'll admit I had never heard of him until he pitched for the Mets last year. Last year's Maine would throw only fastballs and wear himself out by the 5th inning. This year, he has good command of his secondary pitches and his fastball is devastatingly sneaky.

 

Rick Peterson deserves as much credit as anyone, other than Maine and Perez themselves, because before this season, one guy was unheard of, and one was known as "wildly ineffective". I don't think it's a coincidence that they both are now having the seasons they are having. They are young, hungry pitchers and someone has to be teaching them something.

I agree with you about Perez, when any left handed pitcher can command his pitches, theyre tough. But thats one of his problems, he has trouble commanding he pitches and I think his mechanics are the reason why, the guy is all over the place. When you average 110 pitches per 7 innings and have the numbers Perez has, one can say he's been lucky...better yet, enigmatic or a paradox

 

Kay is a moron, he doesnt know anything, dont listen to anything he says, he will only make you dumb. And again, how much validity can you put on the O's? That team has been a mess for years, their ownership/upper management has been downright awful. They have no idea how to evaluate talent or run baseball team all together.

 

 

When a pitcher who posses great stuff does well, Peterson is a genius. I get it

[gateb]

He has been very lucky this season, he hasnt pitched nearly as well as his era and record says he has. He has been wildy effective and that wont last. He is a solid number 4 or 5 starter, and Id take him over Mussina, but he is no way ann ace. He had one great season sandwiched between 4 extremely shitty seasons. Until he puts together some good seasons consistantly and throws more strikes, then I will say his 2004 season was a fluke and he is the shitty pitcher his overall career numbers say he is. His stuff is decent, and he doesnt throw 95 mph, but the guy has no command of any of his pitches....and his mechanics are horrible. He is all over the place. Like I said, his career whip is 1.56, and thats awful

You've only watched two games Perez has pitched this year and he owned in both games. When your lineup was just as hot as it was last weekend, Perez shut you guys down at Yankees stadium. No, that's not lucky.

 

How can someone who possesses a 95 MPH fastball with electric movement and sliders that can be pitched anywhere in the strike zone with great movement be lucky?

 

You are right about one thing, and you did it by accident. You said his record doesn't indicate how he's been pitching this year, which is 100% true. A guy with a 2.84 ERA should be better then 9-7.

 

And you know damn well that Maine was not highly touted at all. Good job on making a fool of yourself.

[gateb]

the same rick peterson who could fix victor zambrano in 15 minutes? And John Maine was always a highly touted pitcher so anything he is doing is not rick peterson as he pitched very well as a rookie september call up in the AL for the O's.

also the same rick peterson that made barry zito a cy young winner in the AL. how's zito doing now?

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

You've only watched two games Perez has pitched this year and he owned in both games. When your lineup was just as hot as it was last weekend, Perez shut you guys down at Yankees stadium. No, that's not lucky.

 

How can someone who possesses a 95 MPH fastball with electric movement and sliders that can be pitched anywhere in the strike zone with great movement be lucky?

 

You are right about one thing, and you did it by accident. You said his record doesn't indicate how he's been pitching this year, which is 100% true. A guy with a 2.84 ERA should be better then 9-7.

 

And you know damn well that Maine was not highly touted at all. Good job on making a fool of yourself.

I guess you arent aware that Ive lived in New York City (mostly in Manhattan) my entire life and have many good friends who are Mets fans that I see on a regualr basis and believe or not, I watch alot of Mets games with them. Ive seen Oliver Perez pitch at least 10 times this season. And as I already said, he has good stuff, just no control and his mechanics are awful. I dont know what youre talking about when you say that his sliders can be thrown anywhere in the strike zone. His command is atrocious. If he were to get with a pitching coach who could get him to perform correctly, he'sdbe a really good pitcher. The guy almost falls down after every pitch, his body is all over the place. he will continue to have rollercoaster seasons if he doesnt fix his mechanics...therefore in the long run, his numbers will reflect what his career numbers are up to this point. If you think that averaging 110 pitches per 7 innings isnt a problen then you dont know anything about baseball, or more specifically pitching. And Id say a guy that throws 110 pitches every 7 innings is very lucky to have a 2.84 ERA

 

John Maine was highly regarded, the Orioles are just retarded. I said it from day one to all my mets fan friends that they were getting a diamond in the rough with Maine and he was the guy who was the real chip in the deal. Seriously, use your brain, if youre the Orioles, (well bad example cause theyre morons) would you send a minor leaguer out there at the end of the season every 5 days because you didnt think he was a legit prospect? Come on. He didnt do well, even though he showed good stuff and the moronic Orioles gave up on him, but to say he was never a highly touted prospect is pretty ignorant.

 

 

And Barry Zito had many fine seasons without Rick. He just sucks in San Fran, he lost velocity on his fast ball and his once great curveball has been hanging more than its been biting.

[fringe]

I I dont know what youre talking about when you say that his sliders can be thrown anywhere in the strike zone.

yea, that's not a good thing. you want your sliders only down in the zone. but mostly falling out of the zone.

 

And Barry Zito had many fine seasons without Rick. He just sucks in San Fran, he lost velocity on his fast ball and his once great curveball has been hanging more than its been biting.

true on the fast ball. the curve is not hanging, it has a hump in it instead of traveling flat and falling off the table. part of the same problem as the fastball, i think. less snap in the shoulder. don't think a pitching coach could help that.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

yea, that's not a good thing. you want your sliders only down in the zone. but mostly falling out of the zone.

 

 

true on the fast ball. the curve is not hanging, it has a hump in it instead of traveling flat and falling off the table. part of the same problem as the fastball, i think. less snap in the shoulder. don't think a pitching coach could help that.

right on all parts, what I meant by hanging is that it just doesnt that devastating drop it used to so it looks like its a hanger compared to what it used to be...bottom line, its a very tattooable pitch now.