Culpepper available.

[Herc]

the switch was made two games too late. he went from 'ok he sucks but not killing us' to 'ok he cost us those last two games'

[fishgutmartyr]

Fish, do I think he'd be an asset, maybe not, but do you think that any of the 3 backups we have right now are "assets"?. He's not going to be signed by anyone for big money, so I don't see him as much of a liability.

 

As for the media going apeshit, sorry but it's been going on long before training camp, it's been going on since mid season last year. It was heightened when Cowher quit and again when Jerry reese took over. If you think about it, maybe a little qb controversy wouldn't be so bad.

 

So adding to the insanity is going to improve things? I can't think of a single time a QB controversy actually helped a team. Simms had to deal with two QB controversies: one cost him a year of development, another 2 years of peak production. Flutie and Johnson did wonders for Buffalo.

 

This whole thing with "well he had all these amazing receivers who caught everything he threw so he owes it all to them" is to me a cop out. Joe Montana had John taylor and Jerry Rice, Marino had the Marks, Steve Young had Rice and Owens. Couldn't the same theory be used for those guys as it is Culpepper?.

 

Yes, it could. And it often is. But keep in mind that Montana went to one or two superbowls without Rice or Taylor; and Marino kept a high standard well after the Marks were gone. Young didn't do so hot when he was with Tampa Bay, did he?

 

Culpepper has done what without Moss?

 

By the way, forget Walter, Moss dogged it with the raiders, simply dogged it, it wouldn't matter who was QB, he simply looked around at his bad team and said " I don't give a fuck". that's too obvious.

 

Over a thousand yards receiving in 2005, with Collins and Norv Turner. Last year was just ridiculous.

[fishgutmartyr]

Warner didn't play all that badly in a few games Midas. And their record after he was demoted was terrible, so if they won in spite of him how come they couldn't win without him?. He's not a saviour, I'm not saying that, but fact is we had a winning record with him on board. There was no good reason to make that switch until we were out of the running.

The defense fell apart due to injuries...again. Don't forget that a lot of sins were hidden by a crazy turnover ratio early in the season--which was artificially enhanced by a certain QB's preference for taking sacks rather than risking INTs.

[boohyah]

So adding to the insanity is going to improve things? I can't think of a single time a QB controversy actually helped a team. Simms had to deal with two QB controversies: one cost him a year of development, another 2 years of peak production. Flutie and Johnson did wonders for Buffalo.

Yes, it could. And it often is. But keep in mind that Montana went to one or two superbowls without Rice or Taylor; and Marino kept a high standard well after the Marks were gone. Young didn't do so hot when he was with Tampa Bay, did he?

 

Culpepper has done what without Moss?

Over a thousand yards receiving in 2005, with Collins and Norv Turner. Last year was just ridiculous.

 

Fish, Tampa has already had talks with Culpepper and they have 7-8 qb's. I think it's fair to say that Atlanta is going to be looking soon for insurance. The Raiders could use him as possible help as they develop Jamarcus Russell. There are several teams that will need experience at backup and I think you and I know he'll probably end up somewhere for training camp. Why not the Giants?. He still has the experience, he's played in some big games. If eli goes down early with injury, I have no confidence that the 3 qb's on the roster after him can fill his spot or come close, none. And it 's with good reason, they are not very good.

 

He's absolutely worth the flyer if they can afford him. That's my opinion. Anyway if he's errant with any of his throws, Pla will catch them for him, he's had plenty of experience with Eli.

[boohyah]

The defense fell apart due to injuries...again. Don't forget that a lot of sins were hidden by a crazy turnover ratio early in the season--which was artificially enhanced by a certain QB's preference for taking sacks rather than risking INTs.

 

 

There are coaches out there that will tell you to throw the ball away or take the sack rather than throw a bad pass and risk an interception, so I'm not sure if it's all that big of a sin what he did.

 

That said, if he was 3-4 or 3-5, I'd have no issue with him being pulled, because we have a losing record. however if the defense was struggling, I think you'd want to have a more experienced QB who might be able to move the ball as opposed to a rookie qb who's going 3 and out on every possession. The guy had experience and was a former Superbowl winner and MVP, he didn't get that becuase he outright sucked. He gave us the best chance to win that year and as far as I'm concerned, the Giants gave up on the season way too early.

[Nesta]

Jesus, this is the Giants board all over again.

I can't believe some of you really want Culpepper here.

[fishgutmartyr]

Fish, Tampa has already had talks with Culpepper and they have 7-8 qb's. I think it's fair to say that Atlanta is going to be looking soon for insurance. The Raiders could use him as possible help as they develop Jamarcus Russell. There are several teams that will need experience at backup and I think you and I know he'll probably end up somewhere for training camp. Why not the Giants?. He still has the experience, he's played in some big games. If eli goes down early with injury, I have no confidence that the 3 qb's on the roster after him can fill his spot or come close, none. And it 's with good reason, they are not very good.

Tampa has managed to keep the most rudderless coaching staff outside of Art Shell in business for far longer than it deserves. It's really no shock that this team has gotten progressively worse as Dungy's group slips past its prime. That Gruden needs that many QBs kind of tells you something about his ability to spot talent at that position, and how badly he's fucked up Simms--not that Simms is his dad, but still...

 

The Raiders looking at Culpepper is an act of mercy for Russell. But with that line, I would give Culpepper 2 games before IR.

 

For the Giants, he's just good enough for people to scream for him if Eli fucks up, but not really good enough to win with this team. In a nutshell, if Eli goes down, this team is fucked, with or without Culpepper.

 

He's absolutely worth the flyer if they can afford him. That's my opinion. Anyway if he's errant with any of his throws, Pla will catch them for him, he's had plenty of experience with Eli.

 

Enjoy your opinion, Boo, but I'm sticking with mine. But it was interesting learning yours.

 

There are coaches out there that will tell you to throw the ball away or take the sack rather than throw a bad pass and risk an interception, so I'm not sure if it's all that big of a sin what he did.

Oops, bit of a misunderstanding here. I meant defensive sins, not Warner's.

 

Most coaches would prefer throwing the ball away rather than taking the sack--especially with the amount of sacks Warner was taking. Plus he wasn't keeping the ball secure, so instead of sacks, he was giving up fumbles. At that point, you might as well throw the ball up for grabs.

 

That said, if he was 3-4 or 3-5, I'd have no issue with him being pulled, because we have a losing record. however if the defense was struggling, I think you'd want to have a more experienced QB who might be able to move the ball as opposed to a rookie qb who's going 3 and out on every possession. The guy had experience and was a former Superbowl winner and MVP, he didn't get that becuase he outright sucked. He gave us the best chance to win that year and as far as I'm concerned, the Giants gave up on the season way too early.

 

We lost 3 safeties, Hand on and off, Joseph, Strahan, and (I know this will surprise you) both outside linebackers. We weren't going anywhere that year. Still, throwing a rookie into that situation with the teams left on the schedule was really bullshit.

[Nas]

IF he would agree to being a backup and IF he comes for relatively cheap, would you be willing to go after him?

 

I'd have to say yes. Good insurance should Eli not step it up, and is a much better QB than any of the backups we have on the roster. The knee injury is bad, but has more upside should he make a full recovery.

 

Plus, with no Petitgout or Barber, I have a feeling Eli is gonna take a LOT more hits this year than last.

 

No. JLoad is better than Culpepper.

[Nas]

That's why I am with you on this one. The Giants have scrubs as backups and they aren't going to make Eli sweat. The Giants need somebody to light the fire under Eli like Dayne did to Barber. Eli needs to start working for his job like all the other positions.

 

Eli doesn't need to sweat. He has great work ethic and doesn't need a fire under his ass. He needs better protection, better recievers, and more than anything a D that can stop people.

[NightFire]

And I tend to agree BUT does anybody really think that Culpepper is a real threat to Eli's 'job'? I would also repeat...or ask again...does Rothlisberger have 'pressure' on him this year from a backup? Does Carson Palmer have 'pressure' on him from his backup? I for one believe the QB position should be as follows: A SOLID #1 QB (if your team believes in you), and role QB's that KNOW that they are back ups. Culpepper pops off as a 'should be starter' (see Miami when rumors were floating around about Trent Green). Why would you want a Culpepper on the Giants (at ANY price) popping of like he wants to start? That tears down the foundation of the QB situation and splits locker rooms IMO.

 

He isn't a real threat but at least some threat. Really it's a big if that he comes at a good price and doesn't get all disgruntled when being backup. I am sure he will end up on a team where he has a better shot than on the Giants but if he sits around and nobody wants him then it's a better gamble than what we currently got IMHO. This whole thread is a big hypothetical situation.

[feefifoefum]

So... everyone outside of Tree thinks Hasselbeck, Wright, and Lorenzen are better QBs than Culpepper?

 

I wouldn't mind signing Culpepper and giving him a chance to earn the backup spot, but he probably still thinks he's a starter so you can forget him even thinking about signing here.

[feefifoefum]

Uh.....yeah.

 

Not for nothing, but what has Moss ever done without Culpepper?

[feefifoefum]

the last time we had a good enough qb to 'light a fire' under our starter he played like a bitch and took sacks instead of throwing the ball cuz he didn't want to turn the ball over and lose his job. i've erased his name from my memory but his wife looks like alice from the brady bunch

 

:lol:

[RandolphScott]

Not for nothing, but what has Moss ever done without Culpepper?

 

 

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

1998 Minnesota Vikings 16 11 69 1313 19.0 61 17 20 14 51

1999 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 80 1413 17.7 67 11 26 8 52

 

 

 

In 1998 his quarterback was Randall Cunningham.

 

In 1999? Jeff George.

[fishgutmartyr]

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

1998 Minnesota Vikings 16 11 69 1313 19.0 61 17 20 14 51

1999 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 80 1413 17.7 67 11 26 8 52

 

In 1998 his quarterback was Randall Cunningham.

 

In 1999? Jeff George.

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

2005 Oakland Raiders 16 15 60 1005 16.8 79 8 15 4 46

 

Kerry Collins.

[RandolphScott]

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

2005 Oakland Raiders 16 15 60 1005 16.8 79 8 15 4 46

 

Kerry Collins.

 

 

I was going to put that, but I always liked Collins as a player

and person after he stopped boozing. I'd rather have Collins

throw off the backfoot interception than Jeff George any day.

 

Jeff George, million dollar arm and a ten cent head.

[feefifoefum]

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

1998 Minnesota Vikings 16 11 69 1313 19.0 61 17 20 14 51

1999 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 80 1413 17.7 67 11 26 8 52

 

In 1998 his quarterback was Randall Cunningham.

 

In 1999? Jeff George.

 

Yes, but he had his best rushing year in 2002, while playing with Culpepper. 51 yards! You CANNOT overlook that!

[RandolphScott]

Yes, but he had his best rushing year in 2002, while playing with Culpepper. 51 yards! You CANNOT overlook that!

 

 

:lol:

[boohyah]

Tampa has managed to keep the most rudderless coaching staff outside of Art Shell in business for far longer than it deserves. It's really no shock that this team has gotten progressively worse as Dungy's group slips past its prime. That Gruden needs that many QBs kind of tells you something about his ability to spot talent at that position, and how badly he's fucked up Simms--not that Simms is his dad, but still...

 

The Raiders looking at Culpepper is an act of mercy for Russell. But with that line, I would give Culpepper 2 games before IR.

 

For the Giants, he's just good enough for people to scream for him if Eli fucks up, but not really good enough to win with this team. In a nutshell, if Eli goes down, this team is fucked, with or without Culpepper.

Enjoy your opinion, Boo, but I'm sticking with mine. But it was interesting learning yours.

Oops, bit of a misunderstanding here. I meant defensive sins, not Warner's.

 

Most coaches would prefer throwing the ball away rather than taking the sack--especially with the amount of sacks Warner was taking. Plus he wasn't keeping the ball secure, so instead of sacks, he was giving up fumbles. At that point, you might as well throw the ball up for grabs.

We lost 3 safeties, Hand on and off, Joseph, Strahan, and (I know this will surprise you) both outside linebackers. We weren't going anywhere that year. Still, throwing a rookie into that situation with the teams left on the schedule was really bullshit.

 

fish, my past comments on tampa have always been the same, Gruden is overated and he won his one superbowl based on the fact that the raiders knew he knew their plays and still didn't adjust. It still doesn't take away from the fact there's interest in him.

 

I agree with you if eli goes down we're fucked, but you know what, we could be fucked with him healthy also. My point is that if eli looks over his shoulder now, he has nothing to fear. Look at McNabb, see how pissed he was when the Eagles drafted the kid in the second round. That's an experienced and better QB than eli and he knows now that he's got to keep playing better. Fact is, Eli is too comfortable, you can see it in his expressions, in his play on the field.Eli would have to throw 10 interceptions in a game before the Giants would give up on him right now. Now, for nothing else put a guy "like" Culpepper,(doesn't have to be him, but a guy was a decent background). Maybe, just the fact that he's there, keeps Eli on his toes. Look around at this team, every position at some stage has been addressed in terms of depth, be it good or bad it's been addressed. All except the most important one.

 

And Fish, Culpepper make suck major ass, but the fact that they made an effort or looked into an upgrade would satisfy me as a Giant fan. That's all you can ask.

 

You're right about the throw away as the first option, but coaches will also tell you to take the sack if absolutely necessary.

 

I know all about the injuries (not sure what you're point is with the linebackers comment, I'm aware of it). It would have been just as productive IMO to leave warner in as starter if the whole team is going down in flames. Be honest, many of us were worried about how Eli could have been affected going through all those losses and the fact that he was playing so poorly and the "he's nothing compared to Big Ben" references going on around him.

[boohyah]

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st

1998 Minnesota Vikings 16 11 69 1313 19.0 61 17 20 14 51

1999 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 80 1413 17.7 67 11 26 8 52

 

In 1998 his quarterback was Randall Cunningham.

 

In 1999? Jeff George.

 

 

Culpepper's best statistical year was 2004

 

Career Stats

Passing Rushing

Year Team G Comp Att Pct. Yds Y/G Y/A 300 Yd TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD

2004 MIN 16 379 548 69.2 4717 294.8 8.6 6 39 11 88 406 25.4 4.6 2

 

Now, Moss the same year caught 49 passes, and yes Moss only played 13 games that year. which actually makes it even stranger as to who caught the other 330 passes.

 

Hint: It wasn't Cris carter.

[boohyah]

Eli doesn't need to sweat. He has great work ethic and doesn't need a fire under his ass. He needs better protection, better recievers, and more than anything a D that can stop people.

 

 

I hear Coughlin needs that also Nas.

[fishgutmartyr]

I agree with you if eli goes down we're fucked, but you know what, we could be fucked with him healthy also. My point is that if eli looks over his shoulder now, he has nothing to fear. Look at McNabb, see how pissed he was when the Eagles drafted the kid in the second round. That's an experienced and better QB than eli and he knows now that he's got to keep playing better. Fact is, Eli is too comfortable, you can see it in his expressions, in his play on the field.Eli would have to throw 10 interceptions in a game before the Giants would give up on him right now. Now, for nothing else put a guy "like" Culpepper,(doesn't have to be him, but a guy was a decent background). Maybe, just the fact that he's there, keeps Eli on his toes. Look around at this team, every position at some stage has been addressed in terms of depth, be it good or bad it's been addressed. All except the most important one.

Actually I think that if the Eagles were thinking that this was going to light a fire under McNabb's ass, they're out of their minds. Before he was injured last year, his stats were insane. The problem is he has trouble staying on the field. McNabb knows this just as much as anyone else, so he has to figure that the Eagles are getting ready to dump him in a year or two. How is this going to improve his play, which was already at probowl level? If anything, it may take something off of his play, seeing that he can't risk getting injured and lose his job.

 

Frankly, I don't know how you could use the word comfortable about Eli or his circumstances.

 

And Fish, Culpepper make suck major ass, but the fact that they made an effort or looked into an upgrade would satisfy me as a Giant fan. That's all you can ask.

Fair enough.

You're right about the throw away as the first option, but coaches will also tell you to take the sack if absolutely necessary.

 

True, but they'll also tell you to make sure you have a hold on the ball when you take that sack. Warner wasn't doing that.

I know all about the injuries (not sure what you're point is with the linebackers comment, I'm aware of it). It would have been just as productive IMO to leave warner in as starter if the whole team is going down in flames. Be honest, many of us were worried about how Eli could have been affected going through all those losses and the fact that he was playing so poorly and the "he's nothing compared to Big Ben" references going on around him.

The linebackers comment was an attempt at humor, which as usual failed miserably.

 

I agree with you completely in this last part.