How long do you give Coughlin...

[JayD]

we would've made the playoffs back-to-back if fassel was running the team when the NFC was this pathetic. we went 8-8 after a playoff season under fassel but it wasn't enough to make the playoffs.

 

you need to open your eyes and actually watch some games if you honestly think coughlin has done a good job here. when he gets us out of the first round (let alone to the superbowl) then you can start talking about him in the same sentence as jim fassel. i think someone who shits on a coach who brought his favorite team to the superbowl is the impatient one

 

 

I never miss a game, nor have I ever "shit" on fassel. I liked him. But the truth is Coughlin is a better coach than him. Hence the reason Coughlin has a job and Fassel doesnt. BTW The NFC wasnt near as pathectic last year, as it was the year we went to the superbowl. In fact I dont know why people say the NFC was weak last year. It wasnt at all. There were just alot of good teams, and it balanced out.

 

BTW when Fassel brings a expantion team to the Championship game, then he can be mentioned in the same sentence as Coughlin.

[Herc]

That one on one shit was stuff the front ofice wanted. I could care less how he or any coach gets along with a media, infested with a bunch of "never dressed for gym" pussies. That goes for Coughlin, Fassel, Handley whoever.

 

i dont care either, but spending the offseason learning how tocover your own ass andkeep your job just doesn't sit right with me. it also creates the impression that he doens'tthink he did a bad job last year and that the media is out to get him (see hitler comment)

 

As far as Fassels success with the team, Coughlin as least has to get to year 4 of his tenure to determine that because that was the year Fassel go to to earn his long term extension.

 

fair enough, i just don't want to put up with another year of him. i never gave up on a coach that fast for either of my favorite teams. the padres went 7 years without making the playoffs and i didn't once want bochy fired a) because he's shown the ability to get my team to the world series and b) he wasn't supposed to make the playoffs those years with the talent the pads had. we've had the talent to make the playoffs and then some these past two years with tiki at the top of his game and strahan still a top player at his position. it took years to assemble this team and i felt like we wasted (hopefully not) the two peak years of this generation's team. i'm also not down with people giving him the injury excuse when no one gave fassel that excuse (who had more goodwill built up than coughlin--despite the 49ers loss), and then on top of that coughlin came inhere talking about stopping injuries like there was actually something a coach could do to prevent them

 

 

 

 

As for him being a lousy coach, you are probably in the minority on that one. Most football people I have listened to hold him in high regards. Me? I am not crazy about him, but I do not think he is lousy. Herm Edwards is lousy, Ray Handley, etc guys like that. In hindsight I do not think he was the guy for this group of loudmouths whom always have thought they have a better resume and accomplished more then they really have. Putting this guy with this group was like trying to teach an old dog new tricks. It just was never gonna work. If this core was gonna stay the core post 2003, then probably Coughlin was not the man. He is better suited for a younger, up and coming team where he can shape them. This team was not going to have that.

 

i think a good coach can win with any team's 'personality' as long as they have talent. i also think what's left of coughlin's reputation is from what he did in jacksonville, and an expansion team is apretty unique situation so who's to say how he would've done with most other teams. and im honestly not interested in anything he's done outside of ny because his success occurred a long time ago and i haven't been impressed when i look athis 3 years here as a whole. i didn't even turn on him till a third of the way into the season cuz i totally bought into the whole 'this team needs a disciplinarian' theory and thought he was an intense guy, but there's an fine line between intense and out of control and the guy made a shitload of bonehead moves last year. i agree he's better than edwards and maybe 'lousy' is a little harsh but i don't think he's a good coach and i don't want him as coach of my team.

 

as far as your last comment, it's sad but when you look at what ended up happening with tiki the past couple of years, in hindsight it might've been the right direction to go especially with the drafting of eli

[Herc]

I never miss a game, nor have I ever "shit" on fassel. I liked him. But the truth is Coughlin is a better coach than him. Hence the reason Coughlin has a job and Fassel doesnt. BTW The NFC wasnt near as pathectic last year, as it was the year we went to the superbowl. In fact I dont know why people say the NFC was weak last year. It wasnt at all. There were just alot of good teams, and it balanced out.

 

BTW when Fassel brings a expantion team to the Championship game, then he can be mentioned in the same sentence as Coughlin.

 

try again buddy, the st. louis rams were the sixth seed in 2000

[ksm7]

I never miss a game, nor have I ever "shit" on fassel. I liked him. But the truth is Coughlin is a better coach than him. Hence the reason Coughlin has a job and Fassel doesnt. BTW The NFC wasnt near as pathectic last year, as it was the year we went to the superbowl. In fact I dont know why people say the NFC was weak last year. It wasnt at all. There were just alot of good teams, and it balanced out.

 

BTW when Fassel brings a expantion team to the Championship game, then he can be mentioned in the same sentence as Coughlin.

 

The Dog has to disagree here, and the Dog is no fan of Fassel...Coughlin's record aside, the team has to grow with a coach, and it appears that this team has digressed in that aspect over his tenure...that being said, the Dog thinks this team's issues have to do a lot with ego and attitude, and that is dangerous for any coach that may take over...the point the Dog has to really disagree on is the contention that the NFC was not weak last year...it appears that there is all evidence to the contrary...

[xxi-xxv]

i dont care either, but spending the offseason learning how tocover your own ass andkeep your job just doesn't sit right with me. it also creates the impression that he doens'tthink he did a bad job last year and that the media is out to get him (see hitler comment)

fair enough, i just don't want to put up with another year of him. i never gave up on a coach that fast for either of my favorite teams. the padres went 7 years without making the playoffs and i didn't once want bochy fired a) because he's shown the ability to get my team to the world series and b) he wasn't supposed to make the playoffs those years with the talent the pads had. we've had the talent to make the playoffs and then some these past two years with tiki at the top of his game and strahan still a top player at his position. it took years to assemble this team and i felt like we wasted (hopefully not) the two peak years of this generation's team. i'm also not down with people giving him the injury excuse when no one gave fassel that excuse (who had more goodwill built up than coughlin--despite the 49ers loss), and then on top of that coughlin came inhere talking about stopping injuries like there was actually something a coach could do to prevent them

i think a good coach can win with any team's 'personality' as long as they have talent. i also think what's left of coughlin's reputation is from what he did in jacksonville, and an expansion team is apretty unique situation so who's to say how he would've done with most other teams. and im honestly not interested in anything he's done outside of ny because his success occurred a long time ago and i haven't been impressed when i look athis 3 years here as a whole. i didn't even turn on him till a third of the way into the season cuz i totally bought into the whole 'this team needs a disciplinarian' theory and thought he was an intense guy, but there's an fine line between intense and out of control and the guy made a shitload of bonehead moves last year. i agree he's better than edwards and maybe 'lousy' is a little harsh but i don't think he's a good coach and i don't want him as coach of my team.

 

as far as your last comment, it's sad but when you look at what ended up happening with tiki the past couple of years, in hindsight it might've been the right direction to go especially with the drafting of eli

Its really not fair to talk about Coughlin and his lack of a better record in terms of having Tiki at the top of his game. He did what no other coach was able to do and get through to this guy not to carry the ball like its 1000 degrees all the time. One thing no one can kill him on is what he did with Tiki. Kill him for many things, the sucess of Barber cannot be one.

 

I think an integral problem amongst all these Giants going as far back as 1998 is that they believe their pub. I just want one year, when they are predicted to do well for one of these guys whether it be Strahan(tiki when he was here) Shockey whomever decide to not talk about what they "could' or should be, but talk about what they need to do "to be". Like I said, I think we ALL overestimated the ability of thiscore group to do anything more than they did in 2000. I know you talk about that season in great reverance, but I can honestly say that aside from the 85 Pats I never remember a worse team making the SB. The NFC was so bad that year I remember watching the Titans and Rams maul the Giants that season and thinking my god there is no way we beat these teams in the playoffs on the road or at a neutral site. Ironically also remember a cold Saturday game against a depleted, bags packed Jags team. They threw all they had at the Giants that day and the Giants needed a on side KR by Sehorn to hold on 28-25. Funny the old man sitting next to me said, that Jags team is better than any team we have seen in the NFC this year aside from the Rams(who lost Warner) and still beat us by 3 scores at home.

 

I met Fassel in 2004 when the Giants played at Baltimore and we stayed at the same hotel as the Ravens. We chatted him up at the bar for about a half hour the night before the game. Genuinely nice man, seemed happy that we as NY fans did not treat him like he did nothing here. My impression was that he was just too nice for NY, on the flip side it seems that Coughlin is not nice enough. THere has to be a happy medium, Watch Mangini the first sign of turmoil comes, he treats the press like they are al queda spies(does not even disclose when training camp will start). Gotta have a happy middle ground. Sadly I think we missed on that the last few years.

[Virginia Giant]

Anything short of a Playoff victory and TC is done, and it needs to be a convincing victory. If he is fired, I'll take john Fox, Cower if he comes out of retirement, hell, even crennel if he gets canned after this year.

[RandolphScott]

THere has to be a happy medium, Watch Mangini the first sign of turmoil comes, he treats the press like they are al queda spies(does not even disclose when training camp will start).

 

I have a feeling the Jets will fall, and hard.

[fishgutmartyr]

Anything short of a Playoff victory and TC is done, and it needs to be a convincing victory. If he is fired, I'll take john Fox, Cower if he comes out of retirement, hell, even crennel if he gets canned after this year.

Let's avoid Fox. He's been as inconsistent as Coughlin or Fassel. I want an upgrade over that. and I'm not so sure about Cowher, either--he took how long to win a bowl?

 

I think I'd rather deal with uneven play with a new guy that has some time to grow at this point. Maybe Rivera or someone like that.

 

But I agree with xxi-xxv: there's a lot more wrong with the team than coaching.

[Nesta]

If it were up to me, the asshole would never have gotten the job in the first place.

One day sporting news is asking the question "is Coughlin too old to coach", the next he is heralded as the new Giant's coach.

 

Fuck him. The best thing he's done for us was drafting the guy who fucked his daughter.

 

edit: and fixing Tikis fumblitis.

[JayD]

try again buddy, the st. louis rams were the sixth seed in 2000

 

so?

[JayD]

The Dog has to disagree here, and the Dog is no fan of Fassel...Coughlin's record aside, the team has to grow with a coach, and it appears that this team has digressed in that aspect over his tenure...that being said, the Dog thinks this team's issues have to do a lot with ego and attitude, and that is dangerous for any coach that may take over...the point the Dog has to really disagree on is the contention that the NFC was not weak last year...it appears that there is all evidence to the contrary...

 

 

Who do you root for?

[ksm7]

Who do you root for?

 

This has no relevance to this discussion...the Dog is interested in everyone's thoughts about Coughlin and the potential of him being successful or not...

[Herc]

so?

 

so....they were the defending champions and sported the previous year's mvp and that current year's mvp....and they were the sixth seed. meanwhile in 2007 a team that finished 8-8 and lost 6 of it's last 8 games was the sixth seed.

[xxi-xxv]

so....they were the defending champions and sported the previous year's mvp and that current year's mvp....and they were the sixth seed. meanwhile in 2007 a team that finished 8-8 and lost 6 of it's last 8 games was the sixth seed.

 

In all honesty, they were only the 6th seed because Warner was hurt, Peter Guinta(current Giants coach) was their putrid defensive coordinator and they snuck into the playoffs because Paul Edinger of the BEars beat the Lions on a last second kick, in the last game of the season to knock the Lions out(a team that beat the Giants that year).

 

If the 2000 Giants had to play the Rams in the div round(which they would have if thankfully the Saints did not hold them off) the Giants would have gotten destroyed. By the playoffs they had Faulk and Warner back and they destroyed us at home tha year with Green and Candidiate.

[JayD]

This has no relevance to this discussion...the Dog is interested in everyone's thoughts about Coughlin and the potential of him being successful or not...

 

 

It has everything to do with this discussion. It shows your motive

[fringe]

It has everything to do with this discussion. It shows your motive

I agree with this. Personally, I will not engage in Giants talk with IH until he comes clean on his allegiance.

[Sephiroth]

I never got a vibe at all that the Giants front office liked Coughlin to stay. I think they thought long and hard about letting him go. The vibe I got was that with a brand-new GM (Reese) working two jobs and running his first draft, there was just too much going on to try and find a new HC in a weak pool (Wade Phillips, anyone).

 

Next year, Cowher will be available, as well as possibly Belichick. A lot more attractive than Wade Phillips.

 

Coughlin has this year. If he comes out of the gate slow, he'll still stay till the end of the year... the Giants don't fire coaches mid-season. Anything less than a playoff victory shows Tom the door... and then Eli has no more excuses, and will be next if he continues to play like Eli.

 

Fassel and Coughlin both have had a similar problem. They're coaches with whiney, overpriced, underachieving players. This is definitely the toughest Giant team to root for that I can ever remember. From Shockey's hand waving and TD dances (I hated that shit when he was a rookie) to Burress giving up on plays, to Tiki and Strahan's verbal wars/mouths, it's tough to feel good about these jerks. Fassel had better assistants that covered up for the fact that he wasn't a very good coach (Fox and Payton have been successful with both their respective teams... Jim got fired as coordinator for the Ravens), and Coughlin is probably a decent coach who's had AWFUL assistants (Lewis and Huff coudln't scheme for shit... and watch our Offense finish in the bottom third of the league THIS year, like Gilbride's offenses ALWAYS do).

 

It's gonna be a LONG year, gentlemen.

[JayD]

"This is definitely the toughest Giant team to root for that I can ever remember"

 

Dont let the door hit you in the ass bro, Cause while im enjoying a winning season it will be guys like you who will say they knew it the whole time.

[ksm7]

It has everything to do with this discussion. It shows your motive

 

The Dog's motive is pure - discuss Giant's football...are you of the belief that the Dog secretly is working undercover for another NFL team, attempting to uncover Giant secrets from their fan base on a message board in an attempt to then supply other teams with this information? Or is it just so frustrating that when discussions are had, you are unable to digress into attacks on another members favorite team...if you are so adament about discussing other teams, then do what the Dog did, and go to that respective team's message board...

[JayD]

The Dog's motive is pure - discuss Giant's football...are you of the belief that the Dog secretly is working undercover for another NFL team, attempting to uncover Giant secrets from their fan base on a message board in an attempt to then supply other teams with this information? Or is it just so frustrating that when discussions are had, you are unable to digress into attacks on another members favorite team...if you are so adament about discussing other teams, then do what the Dog did, and go to that respective team's message board...

 

 

If your motives were pure, you wouldnt spend so much time trying to convince Giant fans that the Giants suck. I dont think you have a conspiricy going on, I just think you like to dish out, while at the same time not having to take it. Its obvious your a fan of a division rival, but if you told us that, you'd be exposed as to where your point of view comes from. I have no time for such nonsence. Be a man, tell us where you stand.

[fringe]

The Dog's motive is pure - discuss Giant's football...are you of the belief that the Dog secretly is working undercover for another NFL team, attempting to uncover Giant secrets from their fan base on a message board in an attempt to then supply other teams with this information?

no one (except you maybe) thinks you are that important.

[ksm7]

If your motives were pure, you wouldnt spend so much time trying to convince Giant fans that the Giants suck. I dont think you have a conspiricy going on, I just think you like to dish out, while at the same time not having to take it. Its obvious your a fan of a division rival, but if you told us that, you'd be exposed as to where your point of view comes from. I have no time for such nonsence. Be a man, tell us where you stand.

 

At this time the Dog would like to point out to you that at no time has the Dog tried to convince anyone here that the giants "suck." The Dog has simply engaged in debates over: Manning (which many here have), Coughlin (which many here have), Taylor as being the best player ever, and how coaches scheme and game plan...if you feel the giants suck, you are drawing those conclusions all by yourself...

 

the Dog has done no dishing out, except in cases when others have attacked or disagreed with no factual basis...you see, again, very slowly...you would like to know the Dog's team of choice so that you could "dish it out" as you eloquently put it...all this does is digress debatable issues that some here, not all, but some enjoy engaging in...here is a true to life example for you...a cowboys fans posts here, and when posting legitimate debatable facts relative to manning, it will quickly digress into "Oh yeah, well Romo is bad as well..." and so on...which dilutes everything down...if that is what you enjoy, then that is more then OK, but the Dog chooses to engage in a different forum style...is this really that challenging of a concept? The Dog can help you out...why don't you, if you feel so compelled, respond back with this arbitrary yet global statement: "Oh yeah, well your team is no good!"...you can even tailor it to fit the specific needs of the debate like so: "Oh yeah, well your team's QB is bad!!" The Dog promises to apply that statement to his specific team, and oh, the Dog will feel so bad and sad and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

[BadEgg]

At this time the Dog would like to point out to you that at no time has the Dog tried to convince anyone here that the giants "suck." The Dog has simply engaged in debates over: Manning (which many here have), Coughlin (which many here have), Taylor as being the best player ever, and how coaches scheme and game plan...if you feel the giants suck, you are drawing those conclusions all by yourself...

 

the Dog has done no dishing out, except in cases when others have attacked or disagreed with no factual basis...you see, again, very slowly...you would like to know the Dog's team of choice so that you could "dish it out" as you eloquently put it...all this does is digress debatable issues that some here, not all, but some enjoy engaging in...here is a true to life example for you...a cowboys fans posts here, and when posting legitimate debatable facts relative to manning, it will quickly digress into "Oh yeah, well Romo is bad as well..." and so on...which dilutes everything down...if that is what you enjoy, then that is more then OK, but the Dog chooses to engage in a different forum style...is this really that challenging of a concept? The Dog can help you out...why don't you, if you feel so compelled, respond back with this arbitrary yet global statement: "Oh yeah, well your team is no good!"...you can even tailor it to fit the specific needs of the debate like so: "Oh yeah, well your team's QB is bad!!" The Dog promises to apply that statement to his specific team, and oh, the Dog will feel so bad and sad and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

 

HA HA HA...I had forgotten that Romo dropped the snap until the good people of this message board pointed it out. And when they did, I cried all night long... They can sure dish it out!

[Sephiroth]

"This is definitely the toughest Giant team to root for that I can ever remember"

 

Dont let the door hit you in the ass bro, Cause while im enjoying a winning season it will be guys like you who will say they knew it the whole time.

 

Really? Guess you've never read any of my posts then, because I'm the first one to eat crow when I'm wrong. I just have a hard time rooting for success for certain people who I think are assholes, no matter how much I love my team.

 

I've got us at 8-8 again next year, but 7-9 or 9-7 is a possibility. How do you have them finishing?

[fishgutmartyr]

HA HA HA...I had forgotten that Romo dropped the snap until the good people of this message board pointed it out. And when they did, I cried all night long... They can sure dish it out!

Jackie Smith in the endzone.

 

 

Squirt tears, punk.