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The Doff would like to chime in on this Lawrence Taylor -best player topic. First off the Doff would like to imply or conject that this is PURELY opinion. Lawrence Taylor is the best defensive player I've EVER seen, period! The reasons why Doff states this (or sets forth or pronounces this) is that LT was doing things from the defensive side of the ball that has yet to be matched consistently. I mean Derrick Thomas KC did amazing things, and so did guys like Reggie White and Ray Lewis. But this LT guy was the FIRST I've seen to change the WHOLE way offenses approached the Giants.

 

...the closest OLB today that the Doff sees that comes close to LT is Shawn 'Lights Out' Merriman. And how Ironic is that because Lights Out is the pick that came from the G-men. Hmmmmn!

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The Doff would like to chime in on this Lawrence Taylor -best player topic. First off the Doff would like to imply or conject that this is PURELY opinion. Lawrence Taylor is the best defensive player I've EVER seen, period! The reasons why Doff states this (or sets forth or pronounces this) is that LT was doing things from the defensive side of the ball that has yet to be matched consistently. I mean Derrick Thomas KC did amazing things, and so did guys like Reggie White and Ray Lewis. But this LT guy was the FIRST I've seen to change the WHOLE way offenses approached the Giants.

 

...the closest OLB today that the Doff sees that comes close to LT is Shawn 'Lights Out' Merriman. And how Ironic is that because Lights Out is the pick that came from the G-men. Hmmmmn!

 

The blue states that the comment contained herein is a splendid comment, and a very agreeable comment. The blue further states that he, like the Doff, has witnessed no other player play OLB like LT.

 

The Blue feels that Merriman should not inject a needle with performance enhancing drugs before he makes any comparison to the great LT. (But snorting is OK :P )

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The Doff would like to chime in on this Lawrence Taylor -best player topic. First off the Doff would like to imply or conject that this is PURELY opinion. Lawrence Taylor is the best defensive player I've EVER seen, period! The reasons why Doff states this (or sets forth or pronounces this) is that LT was doing things from the defensive side of the ball that has yet to be matched consistently. I mean Derrick Thomas KC did amazing things, and so did guys like Reggie White and Ray Lewis. But this LT guy was the FIRST I've seen to change the WHOLE way offenses approached the Giants.

 

...the closest OLB today that the Doff sees that comes close to LT is Shawn 'Lights Out' Merriman. And how Ironic is that because Lights Out is the pick that came from the G-men. Hmmmmn!

 

Best defensive player is arguable...best player ever - the Dog has issue with...

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Best defensive player is arguable...best player ever - the Dog has issue with...

Which YOU can clearly see that the Doff had written that "L.T. was the best defensive player I'd ever seen" The only 'arguable' thing there is YOU may have seen better players play in your era (example the Dick 'Night train' Lane era).....but the Doff still stands with Lawrence being the best I've ever seen on defense.

 

Offensively the Doff likes to label Barry Sanders the best offensive player I've ever seen...followed by Eric Dickerson (best one season back ever) then Walter Payton. Sonner or later the Doff will hafta give the other "L.T." his props to (LaDanian Tomlinson....say that three times fast with crackers in your mouth...the Doff dares ya).

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BigBlue - The Dog tried to stay away...really...it is just that, statements like this are extremely difficult for the Dog to leave alone...the Dog has no doubt that Taylor was a great player, and possibly the best linebacker to have played the game...but best football player at any position? That is impossible to say...

 

 

The west coast offense was created and designed as an answer to LT. He was not only a great player he changed the way whole offenses schemed. That is a MAJOR impact for one guy.

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Which YOU can clearly see that the Doff had written that "L.T. was the best defensive player I'd ever seen" The only 'arguable' thing there is YOU may have seen better players play in your era (example the Dick 'Night train' Lane era).....but the Doff still stands with Lawrence being the best I've ever seen on defense.

 

Offensively the Doff likes to label Barry Sanders the best offensive player I've ever seen...followed by Eric Dickerson (best one season back ever) then Walter Payton. Sonner or later the Doff will hafta give the other "L.T." his props to (LaDanian Tomlinson....say that three times fast with crackers in your mouth...the Doff dares ya).

 

You are such a tight little guy...The dog is not confronting you here, just stating that to name a pleyer, in this case taylor, as the best player ever in the NFL (which you did not, but it was an ongoing debate here), is impossible...

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The west coast offense was created and designed as an answer to LT. He was not only a great player he changed the way whole offenses schemed. That is a MAJOR impact for one guy.

 

The Dog is pretty sure the west coast offense has roots that run deeper then Taylor...

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You are such a tight little guy...The dog is not confronting you here, just stating that to name a pleyer, in this case taylor, as the best player ever in the NFL (which you did not, but it was an ongoing debate here), is impossible...

Actually the Doff isn't "a little guy" by no means. Six foot four and never 'tight'. It's hard to interpret written word because the Doff (in person) is the loosest, funniest personality this side of the Mississippi. Words on a message board could never do the Doff any justice.

BTW, the Doff is curious to know your opinion on "Best Defensive player", "Best offensive player" that you've ever seen?

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Actually the Doff isn't "a little guy" by no means. Six foot four and never 'tight'. It's hard to interpret written word because the Doff (in person) is the loosest, funniest personality this side of the Mississippi. Words on a message board could never do the Doff any justice.

BTW, the Doff is curious to know your opinion on "Best Defensive player", "Best offensive player" that you've ever seen?

 

 

Uh oh, here we go. :rolleyes:

 

The dog knows my opinion.....cause I saw him play. :TU:

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The Dog is pretty sure the west coast offense has roots that run deeper then Taylor...

 

 

while Bill Walsh was certainly heavily influenced by Sid Gillman and Paul Brown back in the 60s and 70s he is considered by most students of the game to be the father of the West Coast Offense. A great deal of the schemes he implemented in the 80s in SF where designed to adress changes in the way defenses played as a result of Lawrence Taylor's immediate dominance on entering the league in 1981. Modern Pass Rushing schemes all grew out of his style of play. Offensive line play and overall formations generally and the west coast offense specifically where developed as an answer to the shifts in defensive pass rushing schemes.

 

This humble observer of NFL Football and the Giants over the last 4 decades feels that in this instance the dog would do well to reconsider his position.

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while Bill Walsh was certainly heavily influenced by Sid Gillman and Paul Brown back in the 60s and 70s he is considered by most students of the game to be the father of the West Coast Offense. A great deal of the schemes he implemented in the 80s in SF where designed to adress changes in the way defenses played as a result of Lawrence Taylor's immediate dominance on entering the league in 1981. Modern Pass Rushing schemes all grew out of his style of play. Offensive line play and overall formations generally and the west coast offense specifically where developed as an answer to the shifts in defensive pass rushing schemes.

 

This humble observer of NFL Football and the Giants over the last 4 decades feels that in this instance the dog would do well to reconsider his position.

:clap::clap:

 

Yeah, what he said!!!

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while Bill Walsh was certainly heavily influenced by Sid Gillman and Paul Brown back in the 60s and 70s he is considered by most students of the game to be the father of the West Coast Offense. A great deal of the schemes he implemented in the 80s in SF where designed to adress changes in the way defenses played as a result of Lawrence Taylor's immediate dominance on entering the league in 1981. Modern Pass Rushing schemes all grew out of his style of play. Offensive line play and overall formations generally and the west coast offense specifically where developed as an answer to the shifts in defensive pass rushing schemes.

 

This humble observer of NFL Football and the Giants over the last 4 decades feels that in this instance the dog would do well to reconsider his position.

 

Ok, The Dog certainly agrees that new schemes develop further based on the changes of the game...but the Dog is hard pressed to believe that Bill Walsh developed an offensive system to address the impact Lawrence Taylor had, since, the 49ers rarely had to face the Giants consistently...and the Dog is pretty sure the 49ers were in fact running the west coast style of offense when they won it all in 81...

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The Doff would like to go 'off subject' and take time out to appreciate the non childish posting that is taken place so far. The sagacity of the people that are posting nowadays leads the Doff to believe that there is room for civility amongst all fans from all walks of nature.

 

With that being said the Doff wants to say Go Giants and good luck to all others who root for other teams.

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Ok, The Dog certainly agrees that new schemes develop further based on the changes of the game...but the Dog is hard pressed to believe that Bill Walsh developed an offensive system to address the impact Lawrence Taylor had, since, the 49ers rarely had to face the Giants consistently...and the Dog is pretty sure the 49ers were in fact running the west coast style of offense when they won it all in 81...

 

 

The west coast offense did not come about in one fell swoop, this I will grant the dog. Certainly the foundations where laid in the 60s and 70s when Walsh worked as an assistant with the Bengals ( Brown ) and the Raiders ( Gillman ) as I mentioned.

 

The important thing to remember is that the NFL is a copycat league. LT exploded onto the scene during his rookie year in 1981 ( in fact the Giants went from 425 pts allowed in '80 to 257 in '81!!!!!!! ) and many teams immediately started to emulate the new defensive pass rushing schemes that LT made possable. They drafted looking for the same skill set / body type and they copied the schemes so I can't lend to much credence to the not in the division defence. Furthermore prior to the '80s, teams almost exclusively relied on RBs to pick up blitzing line backers. In the divisional playoffs in '81 ( Giants lost to the 49ers 38-24 ) Bill Walsh employed a unique blocking scheme. Walsh assigned a guard ( John Ayers was their best blocker ) to block Taylor. This was a revolutionary shift in historic blocking schemes and was adopted in the '81 playoffs as a direct response to LT in his Rookie season!!!!! Teams in subsequent seasons adjusted to this practice by bringing middle linebacjkers on blitzes through the the guard hole. Walsh adjusted again and started assigning offensive left tackles to block OLBs.

 

Meanwhile back on the East Coast Joe Gibbs was also desperate for an answer to the Taylor style onslaught. His response was to use a 2 TE / H-Back formation as a direct response. This formation as we know is now de riguer for NFL teams but this again was a direct response to the LT effect. Coach Gibbs said of LT in a 1999 Sports Illustrated retro spective "[w]e had to try in some way have a special game plan just for Lawrence Taylor. Now you didn't do that very often in this league but I think he's one person that we learned the lesson the hard way. We lost ball games."

 

The dog must in my humble opinion concede that it is quite telling that the two most succesful football coaches in the NFL during LTs tenure ( They accounted for 6 titles from 81 - 91 ) where foreced to "Taylor" their offensive formations and blocking schemes to achieve their goals.

 

Undeniably the best defensive player of his era. Certainly, based on impact on the way the game is played, the best defensive player of all time and quite arguably the greatest player ever.

 

HLB acknowledges a small bias due to the fact that he is a rabid Giants fan.

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The west coast offense did not come about in one fell swoop, this I will grant the dog. Certainly the foundations where laid in the 60s and 70s when Walsh worked as an assistant with the Bengals ( Brown ) and the Raiders ( Gillman ) as I mentioned.

 

The important thing to remember is that the NFL is a copycat league. LT exploded onto the scene during his rookie year in 1981 ( in fact the Giants went from 425 pts allowed in '80 to 257 in '81!!!!!!! ) and many teams immediately started to emulate the new defensive pass rushing schemes that LT made possable. They drafted looking for the same skill set / body type and they copied the schemes so I can't lend to much credence to the not in the division defence. Furthermore prior to the '80s, teams almost exclusively relied on RBs to pick up blitzing line backers. In the divisional playoffs in '81 ( Giants lost to the 49ers 38-24 ) Bill Walsh employed a unique blocking scheme. Walsh assigned a guard ( John Ayers was their best blocker ) to block Taylor. This was a revolutionary shift in historic blocking schemes and was adopted in the '81 playoffs as a direct response to LT in his Rookie season!!!!! Teams in subsequent seasons adjusted to this practice by bringing middle linebacjkers on blitzes through the the guard hole. Walsh adjusted again and started assigning offensive left tackles to block OLBs.

 

Meanwhile back on the East Coast Joe Gibbs was also desperate for an answer to the Taylor style onslaught. His response was to use a 2 TE / H-Back formation as a direct response. This formation as we know is now de riguer for NFL teams but this again was a direct response to the LT effect. Coach Gibbs said of LT in a 1999 Sports Illustrated retro spective "[w]e had to try in some way have a special game plan just for Lawrence Taylor. Now you didn't do that very often in this league but I think he's one person that we learned the lesson the hard way. We lost ball games."

 

The dog must in my humble opinion concede that it is quite telling that the two most succesful football coaches in the NFL during LTs tenure ( They accounted for 6 titles from 81 - 91 ) where foreced to "Taylor" their offensive formations and blocking schemes to achieve their goals.

 

Undeniably the best defensive player of his era. Certainly, based on impact on the way the game is played, the best defensive player of all time and quite arguably the greatest player ever.

 

HLB acknowledges a small bias due to the fact that he is a rabid Giants fan.

 

 

Yes, hlb, totally agreed. I think no one at thier position has had a greater impact. For the position itself, and the way opposers planned for him.

 

The Blue also acknowledges just a tad bit of bias. :P

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The Doff wonders why hasn't the Dog given up his choice of 'Best defensive player'? Doff doesn't want to speculate but it seems like the Dog would NOT pick Lawrence Taylor. And that would be quite ok....but the Doff is willing to guess that Itailan Dawg has somebody in mind?

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The Doff wonders why hasn't the Dog given up his choice of 'Best defensive player'? Doff doesn't want to speculate but it seems like the Dog would NOT pick Lawrence Taylor. And that would be quite ok....but the Doff is willing to guess that Itailan Dawg has somebody in mind?

 

Not tellin keeps em guessing.

 

He dont have a favorite.

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The Doff wonders why hasn't the Dog given up his choice of 'Best defensive player'? Doff doesn't want to speculate but it seems like the Dog would NOT pick Lawrence Taylor. And that would be quite ok....but the Doff is willing to guess that Itailan Dawg has somebody in mind?

 

The Dog has maintained that it is impossible to select a best defensive or offensive player ever...As stated, the Dog could easily jump on the same safe opinions here and say that Taylor is the best defensive player ever, but one could easily argue the same for the likes of Singeltary, Butkus, White...in fact, to use a similar argument taking place here, the Dog, while admittingly never haven seen Butkus play sands a few highlights, is pretty sure teams in that era had to develop schemes to neutralize him at the middle linebacker position when playing the Bears...Also, as previously argued earlier, to state that Taylor is the best NFL player ever is a impossible...The Dog might agree with the argument that Deon Sanders (again, the Dog is no fan of this pompass scoundral) would better earn this title - no single player had a greater all around impact on a team's game planning then he did...offenses chose not to throw to his side, so he essentially limited a passing game to half the field...he also played, albeit in a limited fashion, offense - and although he was no Jerry Rice, when he was on the field, defensively teams had to account for him and had defensive packages sepcific to accounting for this...finally, if you remember correctly, when punting, teams often, if not always in a game, made every attempt to kick away from him, which many times resulted in shorter punts and a loss in the field position battle...Sanders is possibly the only player that the Dog can recall that significantly impacted all three phases of a game...the Dog is again not so bold as to state that he is the best NFL player ever, but he certainly is easier to argue in favor of...

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The Dog has maintained that it is impossible to select a best defensive or offensive player ever...As stated, the Dog could easily jump on the same safe opinions here and say that Taylor is the best defensive player ever, but one could easily argue the same for the likes of Singeltary, Butkus, White...in fact, to use a similar argument taking place here, the Dog, while admittingly never haven seen Butkus play sands a few highlights, is pretty sure teams in that era had to develop schemes to neutralize him at the middle linebacker position when playing the Bears...Also, as previously argued earlier, to state that Taylor is the best NFL player ever is a impossible...The Dog might agree with the argument that Deon Sanders (again, the Dog is no fan of this pompass scoundral) would better earn this title - no single player had a greater all around impact on a team's game planning then he did...offenses chose not to throw to his side, so he essentially limited a passing game to half the field...he also played, albeit in a limited fashion, offense - and although he was no Jerry Rice, when he was on the field, defensively teams had to account for him and had defensive packages sepcific to accounting for this...finally, if you remember correctly, when punting, teams often, if not always in a game, made every attempt to kick away from him, which many times resulted in shorter punts and a loss in the field position battle...Sanders is possibly the only player that the Dog can recall that significantly impacted all three phases of a game...the Dog is again not so bold as to state that he is the best NFL player ever, but he certainly is easier to argue in favor of...

 

 

Question answered. He never saw LT play.

 

There is no way Deion had a bigger impact than LT. Teams would not throw to his side, true. But the Blue looks at it like, if they threw to his side, and he intercepted every ball, then he earns the title of best DP. Teams tried to avoid LT......and still failed.

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Question answered. He never saw LT play.

 

There is no way Deion had a bigger impact than LT. Teams would not throw to his side, true. But the Blue looks at it like, if they threw to his side, and he intercepted every ball, then he earns the title of best DP. Teams tried to avoid LT......and still failed.

 

The Dog saw Taylor play...is that the basis for a strong argument? Because the Dog also saw Matt Robinson play QB for the Jets...

 

Oh my goodness- so by that rationale, if a team ran to Taylor's side, and he made every tackle, or if a team rolled out to his side, and he sacked them every time, then he would be the best ever?

 

The Dog wonders - have you ever watched football? Because attempting to have an effective passing game while only throwing to one side of the field greatly impacts a team's ability to score, and if you are a fan of the game, you realize that scoring more then the other team is the ultimate goal...

 

And correct the Dog if he is wrong, but the Dog, having seen Taylor play, doesn't remember seeing him play on offense and/or special teams...which is the basis of the argument that Sanders had such an impact on ALL THREE phases of the game, that he is arguably the best ever player all around...that being said, the Dog still wouldn't award him this title, since again, it is impossible to determine...

 

Come on BigBlue, this logic may fly on the Cardinals message board, but around here, this is silly...

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The Dog has maintained that it is impossible to select a best defensive or offensive player ever...As stated, the Dog could easily jump on the same safe opinions here and say that Taylor is the best defensive player ever, but one could easily argue the same for the likes of Singeltary, Butkus, White...in fact, to use a similar argument taking place here, the Dog, while admittingly never haven seen Butkus play sands a few highlights, is pretty sure teams in that era had to develop schemes to neutralize him at the middle linebacker position when playing the Bears...Also, as previously argued earlier, to state that Taylor is the best NFL player ever is a impossible...significantly impacted all three phases of a game...the Dog is again not so bold as to state that he is the best NFL player ever, but he certainly is easier to argue in favor of...

Ok.... but answer ME this? Who's YOUR best defensive player? Not based on ESPN, NFL Network, etc...but based on your opnion. NOTE: I am not asking for your best player ever just your best DEFENSIVE player. Be straight because the Doff is curious...dat all.

 

(I think the Dog likes to dodge issues sometimes. Not that this is bad but sometimes we'd like to see a STRAIGHT answer?)

 

Example

Doff: "Hey Dog, who's your best defensive player?"

Dog: "Aww man that's a easy one for me, Ray Lewis!"

Doff: "That's cool, and it's ok to disagree isn't it??"

 

DONE! Doff out.

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The Dog saw Taylor play...is that the basis for a strong argument? Because the Dog also saw Matt Robinson play QB for the Jets...

 

Oh my goodness- so by that rationale, if a team ran to Taylor's side, and he made every tackle, or if a team rolled out to his side, and he sacked them every time, then he would be the best ever?

 

The Dog wonders - have you ever watched football? Because attempting to have an effective passing game while only throwing to one side of the field greatly impacts a team's ability to score, and if you are a fan of the game, you realize that scoring more then the other team is the ultimate goal...

 

And correct the Dog if he is wrong, but the Dog, having seen Taylor play, doesn't remember seeing him play on offense and/or special teams...which is the basis of the argument that Sanders had such an impact on ALL THREE phases of the game, that he is arguably the best ever player all around...that being said, the Dog still wouldn't award him this title, since again, it is impossible to determine...

 

Come on BigBlue, this logic may fly on the Cardinals message board, but around here, this is silly...

 

Awww, the little boy lets me get to him.....how cute..

 

Now why would you ask if I ever watch football? Of course. But because I dont speak in the 3rd person, dont act like you dont know what Im saying. MATT ROBINSON???? What does that have to do with anything.

 

Read it again. Yes, Deion being feared helped, but LT was feared, and it DIDNT help. He still killed teams.

 

Yeah, maybe I'll try it on the Cards board. That wouldnt be any different than you being here now, would it. :rolleyes:

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Awww, the little boy lets me get to him.....how cute..

 

Now why would you ask if I ever watch football? Of course. But because I dont speak in the 3rd person, dont act like you dont know what Im saying. MATT ROBINSON???? What does that have to do with anything.

 

Read it again. Yes, Deion being feared helped, but LT was feared, and it DIDNT help. He still killed teams.

 

Yeah, maybe I'll try it on the Cards board. That wouldnt be any different than you being here now, would it. :rolleyes:

 

 

The Dog wonders - are you capable of stringing anything together, or does it always have to be spelled out concretely?

 

If you watched football, again you would understand the impact Sanders had on a team and their ability to be effective offensively...Your continued basis for Taylor being the best defensive player ever as your opinion has been that you saw him play...again, the Dog saw Matt Robinson play, would the Dog be justified in saying that he is the best QB ever? Please don't answer that...

 

As for getting under the Dog's skin - that is highly impossibe - as previously stated, the Dog finds you entertaining in the same way that a circus clown is entertaining...

 

Wait a second, on further review the Dog concedes - all of your opinions must be fact, because you are obviously very knowledgable, being a SENIOR member of three different Giant's message boards...HA HA HA HA...the value of time! HA HA HA HA...run along little man, there is a thread somewhere on the internet that needs your urgent attention...HA HA HA HA...

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