xxi-xxv Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Parcells Giants rated #3, Steal Curtain Steelers came in at #2 and what IMO is an absolute joke the Jim Mora Saints of Swilling, Johnhson, Mills and Jackson came in at #1. They were no doubt a VERY VERY good LB corps, but they never even won a playoff game let alone a SB. #3 pretty good for the Gmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 They had to give the Saints something. NO WAY that LB corps is better than Taylor, Reasons, Johnson, and Banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 They had to give the Saints something. NO WAY that LB corps is better than Taylor, Reasons, Johnson, and Banks. Don't forget about Carson too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Better than the 85 Bears? I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Better than the 85 Bears? I dont think so. That group never won another superbowl, I remember the Giants thrashing the Bears in the NFC Divisional Playoffs to the tune of 30-3. Oh and what's up with the fat fuck from Pittsburgh saying Jack Ham was better than L.T.? Don't get me wrong, Ham was a great player, but did he change the way offensives play the game? NOPE. His direct quote was "LT was just a pass rusher" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 That group never won another superbowl, I remember the Giants thrashing the Bears in the NFC Divisional Playoffs to the tune of 30-3. Oh and what's up with the fat fuck from Pittsburgh saying Jack Ham was better than L.T.? Don't get me wrong, Ham was a great player, but did he change the way offensives play the game? NOPE. His direct quote was "LT was just a pass rusher" Very true about the one SB, but that unit was a monster. And I meant they are better than the Saints unit, not the Gmens unit. No way Jack Hamm was better, LT was not only the best LB, but the best FOOTBALL PLAYER at any position in history. Just a pass rusher, he must have never saw LT play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Very true about the one SB, but that unit was a monster. And I meant they are better than the Saints unit, not the Gmens unit. No way Jack Hamm was better, LT was not only the best LB, but the best FOOTBALL PLAYER at any position in history. Just a pass rusher, he must have never saw LT play. BigBlue - The Dog tried to stay away...really...it is just that, statements like this are extremely difficult for the Dog to leave alone...the Dog has no doubt that Taylor was a great player, and possibly the best linebacker to have played the game...but best football player at any position? That is impossible to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 BigBlue - The Dog tried to stay away...really...it is just that, statements like this are extremely difficult for the Dog to leave alone...the Dog has no doubt that Taylor was a great player, and possibly the best linebacker to have played the game...but best football player at any position? That is impossible to say... I've always said that about LT, and although it's opinion, because as you stated, thats kind a hard to judge, I believe he is the best player period. He's the only person who had game plans devised to stop him. Coordinators changed thier game plan because of him. Rice comes a close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have no problem with the Steelers being ranked ahead of the Giants--that was a great LB group. I guess you could argue that they benefitted by having Joe Green and LC Greenwood in front of them, but Ham and Lambert would have been great anywhere. But the Saints the best of all time? No. They were very good, perhaps on par with the Giants linebackers for 1-2 years. The Giants linebackers were amazing for how long? Even only the Taylor, Carson, Reasons, and Banks group was together for 4 years; and that doesn't take into consideration the years with VanPelt, Kelly, Johnson; let alone Lloyd, or BACKUPS like Hunt or DeOssie. Even if I wasn't a Giants fan, there's no WAY the Saints should be ranked ahead of the Pittsburgh group, if for no other reason than they won 4 Superbowls on that defense. You could easily make the argument that the LB crew of Taylor-Carson-Kelly-VanPelt should be ranked as well. Van Pelt brought another 5 probowls to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have no problem with the Steelers being ranked ahead of the Giants--that was a great LB group. I guess you could argue that they benefitted by having Joe Green and LC Greenwood in front of them, but Ham and Lambert would have been great anywhere. But the Saints the best of all time? No. They were very good, perhaps on par with the Giants linebackers for 1-2 years. The Giants linebackers were amazing for how long? Even only the Taylor, Carson, Reasons, and Banks group was together for 4 years; and that doesn't take into consideration the years with VanPelt, Kelly, Johnson; let alone Lloyd, or BACKUPS like Hunt or DeOssie. Even if I wasn't a Giants fan, there's no WAY the Saints should be ranked ahead of the Pittsburgh group, if for no other reason than they won 4 Superbowls on that defense. You could easily make the argument that the LB crew of Taylor-Carson-Kelly-VanPelt should be ranked as well. Van Pelt brought another 5 probowls to the table. Exactly why they should be #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 BigBlue - The Dog tried to stay away...really...it is just that, statements like this are extremely difficult for the Dog to leave alone...the Dog has no doubt that Taylor was a great player, and possibly the best linebacker to have played the game...but best football player at any position? That is impossible to say... possibly? no bias there, dog..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I've always said that about LT, and although it's opinion, because as you stated, thats kind a hard to judge, I believe he is the best player period. He's the only person who had game plans devised to stop him. Coordinators changed thier game plan because of him. Rice comes a close second. The Dog could support the possible argument that he is the best linebacker period, but player is too difficult...22 different positions with there own specialties makes it impossible to call...and truthfully, the Dog is pretty sure there are a number of players in NFL history that teams designed specific game plans for...Anyhow, it appears we will agree to disagree on this subject matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The Dog could support the possible argument that he is the best linebacker period, but player is too difficult...22 different positions with there own specialties makes it impossible to call...and truthfully, the Dog is pretty sure there are a number of players in NFL history that teams designed specific game plans for...Anyhow, it appears we will agree to disagree on this subject matter... The kid would like to ask the dog a question. How do you sleep at night? Seeing as your ego takes up most of the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The Dog could support the possible argument that he is the best linebacker period, but player is too difficult...22 different positions with there own specialties makes it impossible to call...and truthfully, the Dog is pretty sure there are a number of players in NFL history that teams designed specific game plans for...Anyhow, it appears we will agree to disagree on this subject matter... OK, "to the best of my knowledge"......no other player had gameplans devised to stop just them. Seriously, I've never heard of one, and have listened to many coaches who played against him say they were specifically trying to stop him. But, again, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The kid would like to ask the dog a question. How do you sleep at night? Seeing as your ego takes up most of the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I've always said that about LT, and although it's opinion, because as you stated, thats kind a hard to judge, I believe he is the best player period. He's the only person who had game plans devised to stop him. Coordinators changed thier game plan because of him. Rice comes a close second. Oh boy, Big Blue. Offensive coordinators and Qbs didn't realize it when they played against a team with Deon Sanders at CB...It was pure coincedence that they wouldn't throw to his side of the field. And, NO ONE, attempted to devise a game plan to stop Joe Montana (legondary 49ers QB) and Barry Sanders (played for Detriot)...Yup, LT was the only one... :brooding: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The kid would like to ask the dog a question. How do you sleep at night? Seeing as your ego takes up most of the bed. The Dog is happy you asked...Before bed, the Dog is careful to cleanse his pores thoroughly before applying natural lotions made from the fresh berries harvested in the Dog's plantation in Nevis...following this delicate application, the Dog engages in a series of yoga stretches (one last act to ensure the most breathtaking set of abs you have ever seen...), before gently laying to rest on a custom designed king sized bed specifically to meet the Dog's evening needs...Some people will tell you that you need 8 hours of sleep a night, but the Dog tends to disagree...a minimum of 10 hours a night will keep you looking and feeling absolutely, 100% fantastic... And for the record, the measure of a linebacking corp's greatness should not be impacted by the team's inability to win a Super Bowl...the Dog has said a number of times, there are many factors that go into winning a Super Bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh boy, Big Blue. Offensive coordinators and Qbs didn't realize it when they played against a team with Deon Sanders at CB...It was pure coincedence that they wouldn't throw to his side of the field. And, NO ONE, attempted to devise a game plan to stop Joe Montana (legondary 49ers QB) and Barry Sanders (played for Detriot)...Yup, LT was the only one... :brooding: Oh, yeah, these other players were in the coordinators heads, but they werent the ONLY one. At times, LT was the ONLY player they worried about when playing the Giants. Dont get what Im saying twisted, although w/ you egg, thats easy to do. A coach plans for a team, but LT struck more fear in OC's than any player Ive known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh boy, Big Blue. Offensive coordinators and Qbs didn't realize it when they played against a team with Deon Sanders at CB...It was pure coincedence that they wouldn't throw to his side of the field. And, NO ONE, attempted to devise a game plan to stop Joe Montana (legondary 49ers QB) and Barry Sanders (played for Detriot)...Yup, LT was the only one... :brooding: You do realize Joe Gibbs devised a whole new scheme to defend Lawrence Taylor, right muchacho? Joe Gibbs or Bad Egg...hmmmm, who's opinion do I go by? I'll take Joe Gibbs, even though your opinion is noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The Dog is happy you asked...Before bed, the Dog is careful to cleanse his pores thoroughly before applying natural lotions made from the fresh berries harvested in the Dog's plantation in Nevis...following this delicate application, the Dog engages in a series of yoga stretches (one last act to ensure the most breathtaking set of abs you have ever seen...), before gently laying to rest on a custom designed king sized bed specifically to meet the Dog's evening needs...Some people will tell you that you need 8 hours of sleep a night, but the Dog tends to disagree...a minimum of 10 hours a night will keep you looking and feeling absolutely, 100% fantastic... And for the record, the measure of a linebacking corp's greatness should not be impacted by the team's inability to win a Super Bowl...the Dog has said a number of times, there are many factors that go into winning a Super Bowl... The kid thanks you for that long winded and utterly sarcastic response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 You do realize Joe Gibbs devised a whole new scheme to defend Lawrence Taylor, right muchacho? Joe Gibbs or Bad Egg...hmmmm, who's opinion do I go by? I'll take Joe Gibbs, even though your opinion is noted. No NFL coach in their right mind would enter a game with a plan designed to stop just one outside linebacker...they may focus on that player, but the Dog is pretty sure that the game plan would include accounting for the other strengths and weaknesses that team had...The Dog is pretty sure Joe Gibbs' plan may have focused on Taylor, but NFL teams do this all the time - Mike Shanahan designed an offensive scheme to account for the Packer's strong safety on every play during that Super Bowl...the Dog can't even remember the name of that player, but certainly you wouldn't consider that player in the same breath as Taylor...would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 No NFL coach in their right mind would enter a game with a plan designed to stop just one outside linebacker...they may focus on that player, but the Dog is pretty sure that the game plan would include accounting for the other strengths and weaknesses that team had...The Dog is pretty sure Joe Gibbs' plan may have focused on Taylor, but NFL teams do this all the time - Mike Shanahan designed an offensive scheme to account for the Packer's strong safety on every play during that Super Bowl...the Dog can't even remember the name of that player, but certainly you wouldn't consider that player in the same breath as Taylor...would you? Shannahan focused on whoever was playing strong safety at the time. Gibbs focused on LT. ONLY LT. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh, yeah, these other players were in the coordinators heads, but they werent the ONLY one. At times, LT was the ONLY player they worried about when playing the Giants. Dont get what Im saying twisted, although w/ you egg, thats easy to do. A coach plans for a team, but LT struck more fear in OC's than any player Ive known. Interesting, Big Blue. You have interviewed all of these coordinators or present with them when they were devising game plans. And what other players, besides LT, do you know? Yes, at time Lt was the only player they worried about when playing the Giants. That's because the other 20 stunk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 No NFL coach in their right mind would enter a game with a plan designed to stop just one outside linebacker...they may focus on that player, but the Dog is pretty sure that the game plan would include accounting for the other strengths and weaknesses that team had...The Dog is pretty sure Joe Gibbs' plan may have focused on Taylor, but NFL teams do this all the time - Mike Shanahan designed an offensive scheme to account for the Packer's strong safety on every play during that Super Bowl...the Dog can't even remember the name of that player, but certainly you wouldn't consider that player in the same breath as Taylor...would you? The kid doesn't consider LeRoy Butler in Lawrence Taylor's category. The kid is also providing a link from Coach Gibbs: coach Joe Gibbs developed the two tight end offense and the position of h-back to prevent Taylor from blitzing into the backfield unhindered. As Gibbs stated, "[w]e had to try in some way have a special game plan just for Lawrence Taylor. Now you didn't do that very often in this league but I think he's one person that we learned the lesson the hard way. We lost ball games." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Shannahan focused on whoever was playing strong safety at the time. Gibbs focused on LT. ONLY LT. Big difference. Not true - Shanahan's focus was on that specific player because of his tendencies vs. the run and playaction...so, really, the Dog cites little to no difference...and Bad Egg's point about Sanders (who the Dog despises by the way, cursed dion sanders and his flash) - teams did in that time specifically design the passing game plan to account for and throw away from him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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