Peter King's MMQB thoughts on the Giants & Eli.

[*SDMF*]

Fuck Peter King. He had Carolina winning the Super Bowl last year, so dont tae this seriously.

[BIGBLUE01]

I could be wrong, but I thought Burress, Shockey and Barber were all healthy in Tennessee. Hmmmm...

 

Gosh, with all these injuries why are the writers so hard on poor Eli?

 

I ask this question all the time? Why does anyone ask why we played so poorly at the end of last year?

 

And I didnt mention any of those 3 as the injured players now, did I? Those 3, along with Eli, did a great job getting the lead, a depleted Defense helped lose the lead, and Im sure not having a healthy Oline and sp. teams players at WR didnt help the situation.

 

C'mon, you got anything better than that weak attempt???

[Sephiroth]

I said the same thing a month ago. We'd do great to go and get Culpepper as our backup.

 

 

1. He's had Pro-Bowl and MVP-like seasons (would have been MVP if the other Manning didn't break the TD record).

 

2. He'll push Eli to play better.

 

3. He's good insurance... we just lost our starting LT, remember?

 

4. Anthony Wright sucks fucking balls. Hasselbeck is actually worse, and Lorenzen still needs another year or two.

 

5. When Eli starts his annual mid-season slump, we'll have someone to turn to.

 

 

 

It makes sense, as long as he doesn't come in as the starter.

[BIGBLUE01]

I said the same thing a month ago. We'd do great to go and get Culpepper as our backup.

1. He's had Pro-Bowl and MVP-like seasons (would have been MVP if the other Manning didn't break the TD record).

 

2. He'll push Eli to play better.

 

3. He's good insurance... we just lost our starting LT, remember?

 

4. Anthony Wright sucks fucking balls. Hasselbeck is actually worse, and Lorenzen still needs another year or two.

 

5. When Eli starts his annual mid-season slump, we'll have someone to turn to.

It makes sense, as long as he doesn't come in as the starter.

 

See, and this is coming from a GIANT FAN!! Dude, Eli didnt have a midseason slump......THE GIANTS had a midseason slump. How can you not see that? A ton of injuries, esp. your most exp. OL, will make a young QB play bad. Peyton, Aikman and Elway played worse thier 1st 2 years and had healthy teams.

 

 

Culpepper seems like a real good idea, but I question his sole ability. What I mean is, once Moss left, Culpepper stunk. So, was it Daunte, or was it Randy who was the one that made them good?

 

We do have Plax, who is somewhat like Moss, so maybe it would work.

[BIGBLUE01]

I said the same thing a month ago. We'd do great to go and get Culpepper as our backup.

1. He's had Pro-Bowl and MVP-like seasons (would have been MVP if the other Manning didn't break the TD record).

 

2. He'll push Eli to play better.

 

3. He's good insurance... we just lost our starting LT, remember?

 

4. Anthony Wright sucks fucking balls. Hasselbeck is actually worse, and Lorenzen still needs another year or two.

 

5. When Eli starts his annual mid-season slump, we'll have someone to turn to.

It makes sense, as long as he doesn't come in as the starter.

 

See, and this is coming from a GIANT FAN!! Dude, Eli didnt have a midseason slump......THE GIANTS had a midseason slump. How can you not see that? A ton of injuries, esp. your most exp. OL, will make a young QB play bad. Peyton, Aikman and Elway played worse thier 1st 2 years and had healthy teams.

 

 

Culpepper seems like a real good idea, but I question his sole ability. What I mean is, once Moss left, Culpepper stunk. So, was it Daunte, or was it Randy who was the one that made them good?

 

We do have Plax, who is somewhat like Moss, so maybe it would work.

[boohyah]

See, and this is coming from a GIANT FAN!! Dude, Eli didnt have a midseason slump......THE GIANTS had a midseason slump. How can you not see that? A ton of injuries, esp. your most exp. OL, will make a young QB play bad. Peyton, Aikman and Elway played worse thier 1st 2 years and had healthy teams.

Culpepper seems like a real good idea, but I question his sole ability. What I mean is, once Moss left, Culpepper stunk. So, was it Daunte, or was it Randy who was the one that made them good?

 

We do have Plax, who is somewhat like Moss, so maybe it would work.

 

 

What games were you watching?. Giants had a midseason slump and Eli's second half of the season was not as good as the first. I noticed not once have you held Eli accountable for anything, but fact is, he's possibly more accountable than anybody. He's the QB, he's held on a pedestal and he makes the big bucks. There's no excuse for a QB with his tools to be making some of the throws he's been making. After 3 years he's still throwing to running backs out of the backfield at their feet. Think about this also, for all the shit that Plax and Shockey take, fact is they are 2 big guys, they are 2 big targets with decent hands, fact is Toomer is one of the best route runners out there, and yet Eli was throwing behind them,over their heads. This crap about guys not showing for camp has nothing to do with the fact that Eli is often way too complacent and inaccurate with his throws. He needs to work on this, and if he does, we'll be good for 2-3 wins a season. That alone makes us a better team.

[BadEgg]

What games were you watching?. Giants had a midseason slump and Eli's second half of the season was not as good as the first. I noticed not once have you held Eli accountable for anything, but fact is, he's possibly more accountable than anybody. He's the QB, he's held on a pedestal and he makes the big bucks. There's no excuse for a QB with his tools to be making some of the throws he's been making. After 3 years he's still throwing to running backs out of the backfield at their feet. Think about this also, for all the shit that Plax and Shockey take, fact is they are 2 big guys, they are 2 big targets with decent hands, fact is Toomer is one of the best route runners out there, and yet Eli was throwing behind them,over their heads. This crap about guys not showing for camp has nothing to do with the fact that Eli is often way too complacent and inaccurate with his throws. He needs to work on this, and if he does, we'll be good for 2-3 wins a season. That alone makes us a better team.

 

 

:worshippy: Badegg couldn't have said it better himself.

[BIGBLUE01]

What games were you watching?. Giants had a midseason slump and Eli's second half of the season was not as good as the first. I noticed not once have you held Eli accountable for anything, but fact is, he's possibly more accountable than anybody. He's the QB, he's held on a pedestal and he makes the big bucks. There's no excuse for a QB with his tools to be making some of the throws he's been making. After 3 years he's still throwing to running backs out of the backfield at their feet. Think about this also, for all the shit that Plax and Shockey take, fact is they are 2 big guys, they are 2 big targets with decent hands, fact is Toomer is one of the best route runners out there, and yet Eli was throwing behind them,over their heads. This crap about guys not showing for camp has nothing to do with the fact that Eli is often way too complacent and inaccurate with his throws. He needs to work on this, and if he does, we'll be good for 2-3 wins a season. That alone makes us a better team.

 

 

LOL shut up egg, go back to the Cowgirlz page.

 

booyah, youre not gettin it. Youre lettin your hatred of Eli cloud your thoughts. Hittin RB's in the feet outta the4backfiled? Sometimes.

Hittin Toomer in the last seconds of the Bronco game PERFECTLY, startin out the Girlz and Egirlz game with perfectly thrown bombs to Toomer and Plax, commandering an offense that obliterated the Cowgilrz on Mon. night, leading a 17 point comeback to beat the Egirlz, and having the ability to see the defense and call an audible against the Cowgirlz in his 1st year to win the game? Yeah, he's shown us that too.

 

Ya see, Im not sayin Eli is not accountable for ALL his actions, quite honestly, it was TOTALLY his fault for a couple of the throws he made against Tennesee, and I know he's made other, YOUNG QB mistakes. But youre actin like he has NO TALENT.

 

Thats just absurd.

[BIGBLUE01]

...and also, just because you are the QB and make the big bucks, doesnt mean you dont go thruough growing pains, ESPECIALLY when youre team gets raveged by injuries.

[BIGBLUE01]

...and also, just because you are the QB and make the big bucks, doesnt mean you dont go thruough growing pains, ESPECIALLY when youre team gets raveged by injuries.

[boohyah]

LOL shut up egg, go back to the Cowgirlz page.

 

booyah, youre not gettin it. Youre lettin your hatred of Eli cloud your thoughts. Hittin RB's in the feet outta the4backfiled? Sometimes.

Hittin Toomer in the last seconds of the Bronco game PERFECTLY, startin out the Girlz and Egirlz game with perfectly thrown bombs to Toomer and Plax, commandering an offense that obliterated the Cowgilrz on Mon. night, leading a 17 point comeback to beat the Egirlz, and having the ability to see the defense and call an audible against the Cowgirlz in his 1st year to win the game? Yeah, he's shown us that too.

 

Ya see, Im not sayin Eli is not accountable for ALL his actions, quite honestly, it was TOTALLY his fault for a couple of the throws he made against Tennesee, and I know he's made other, YOUNG QB mistakes. But youre actin like he has NO TALENT.

 

Thats just absurd.

 

 

You're way off base saying that I'm letting my "hatred". I don't hate him at all, and in previous posts I have said that I believe this kid his all the tools but for the most part he needs to get his head on right. I want this kid to succeed, period. I want Ernie to have been correct and I want him to get out of the shadows of Peyton. He's no different than the rest of the team, no matter what I think of them, I want them all to be successful, that includes Coughlin. There's nothing I would like better than to come back here next year and say, " Eli has become the man". I don't care if I'm proved wrong as long as we win. That's the way a supporter should be, but I am allowed to voice my opinion. You need to take a step back here and not jump to conclusions. I mean, if you think about it, you blamed the Giants performances on the failings of other Giants players and coaching, couldn't that mean that I'm saying you're hating on them??

[boohyah]

:worshippy: Badegg couldn't have said it better himself.

 

 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not being a troll, but you're acting like one now. I posted something a while back on this thread directed to you and for some reason, you fail to respond?

[RaginCaucasian]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not being a troll, but you're acting like one now. I posted something a while back on this thread directed to you and for some reason, you fail to respond?

That's because you hit the nail on the head, he's a troll..... or he just enjoys getting OWNED and watching

[BIGBLUE01]

You're way off base saying that I'm letting my "hatred". I don't hate him at all, and in previous posts I have said that I believe this kid his all the tools but for the most part he needs to get his head on right. I want this kid to succeed, period. I want Ernie to have been correct and I want him to get out of the shadows of Peyton. He's no different than the rest of the team, no matter what I think of them, I want them all to be successful, that includes Coughlin. There's nothing I would like better than to come back here next year and say, " Eli has become the man". I don't care if I'm proved wrong as long as we win. That's the way a supporter should be, but I am allowed to voice my opinion. You need to take a step back here and not jump to conclusions. I mean, if you think about it, you blamed the Giants performances on the failings of other Giants players and coaching, couldn't that mean that I'm saying you're hating on them??

 

No, Im just saying that Eli is not fully responsible, and that injuries, esp. as many as we had, can make a difference. Some things were Eli's fault, and some were just because we were in such dissarray.

 

 

I am with you though...JUST WIN!

[Nas]

What games were you watching?. Giants had a midseason slump and Eli's second half of the season was not as good as the first. I noticed not once have you held Eli accountable for anything, but fact is, he's possibly more accountable than anybody. He's the QB, he's held on a pedestal and he makes the big bucks. There's no excuse for a QB with his tools to be making some of the throws he's been making. After 3 years he's still throwing to running backs out of the backfield at their feet. Think about this also, for all the shit that Plax and Shockey take, fact is they are 2 big guys, they are 2 big targets with decent hands, fact is Toomer is one of the best route runners out there, and yet Eli was throwing behind them,over their heads. This crap about guys not showing for camp has nothing to do with the fact that Eli is often way too complacent and inaccurate with his throws. He needs to work on this, and if he does, we'll be good for 2-3 wins a season. That alone makes us a better team.

 

The cup is half empty, Boohyah. I'm sure by counting the misses and discounting the hits, you'd make Eli (or any QB for that matter) look horrible. No one is disputing Eli's slump or some of Eli's erratic throws but you can also look at the throws where his receivers stopped running or dropped also... every QB has those.

 

Eli is the victim of bad coaching. I don't recall the last time a Giants QB had to throw as much.. there were times last season where we all screamed the the television for the play calling to run the fucking ball..

 

Eli hasn't lived up to the HUGE expectations everyone has of him but he's better than an average QB.. certainly better than any QB we've had since simms...so what gives?

 

Is this a team sport or an individual show? as far as 2006 is concerned, offense wasn't the problem.. defense was.

 

When it comes to Eli, a few tweeks (similiar to that Tiki had when he was told to hold the ball differently) can do wonders... and now with a better defense (hopefully) than 2006, I'm sure we can win a few more games. And suddenly the cup is half full.

[BIGBLUE01]

The cup is half empty, Boohyah. I'm sure by counting the misses and discounting the hits, you'd make Eli (or any QB for that matter) look horrible. No one is disputing Eli's slump or some of Eli's erratic throws but you can also look at the throws where his receivers stopped running or dropped also... every QB has those.

 

Eli is the victim of bad coaching. I don't recall the last time a Giants QB had to throw as much.. there were times last season where we all screamed the the television for the play calling to run the fucking ball..

 

Eli hasn't lived up to the HUGE expectations everyone has of him but he's better than an average QB.. certainly better than any QB we've had since simms...so what gives?

 

Is this a team sport or an individual show? as far as 2006 is concerned, offense wasn't the problem.. defense was.

 

When it comes to Eli, a few tweeks (similiar to that Tiki had when he was told to hold the ball differently) can do wonders... and now with a better defense (hopefully) than 2006, I'm sure we can win a few more games. And suddenly the cup is half full.

 

My bro comes thru....... Great post, exactly my thoughts, just worded better.

[boohyah]

The cup is half empty, Boohyah. I'm sure by counting the misses and discounting the hits, you'd make Eli (or any QB for that matter) look horrible. No one is disputing Eli's slump or some of Eli's erratic throws but you can also look at the throws where his receivers stopped running or dropped also... every QB has those.

 

Eli is the victim of bad coaching. I don't recall the last time a Giants QB had to throw as much.. there were times last season where we all screamed the the television for the play calling to run the fucking ball..

 

Eli hasn't lived up to the HUGE expectations everyone has of him but he's better than an average QB.. certainly better than any QB we've had since simms...so what gives?

 

Is this a team sport or an individual show? as far as 2006 is concerned, offense wasn't the problem.. defense was.

 

When it comes to Eli, a few tweeks (similiar to that Tiki had when he was told to hold the ball differently) can do wonders... and now with a better defense (hopefully) than 2006, I'm sure we can win a few more games. And suddenly the cup is half full.

 

 

Nas, got news for you. In the last 2 years, the entire team has been the victim of bad coaching, not just Eli.

 

The reason we throw more is because this team has more weapons offensively than teams in the past. Even so, Simms threw the ball a lot and so did Collins. And none of them had the full benefit or having a guy like Tiki on the team, in fact when Collins was QB, Tiki was fumbling a lot.

 

You and Blue see my criticism of Eli and jump to the conclusion that I don't like the guy. The fact is that it's time like the Broncos comeback and several other games in his career that make me believe that this guy has the tools, he just needs to use them more often.

 

I will not take back my comment that I feel that of all the players on offense he's the one that has to step it up the most and that includes our resident whipping boy Plax. Eli needs to take more command of the offense and make the throws he's supposed to make. He also has to adjust his calls sometimes, not just audible but he's got to go through his progressions faster.

 

Another thing guys, if you read my previous posts you'll see that I do think the glass is half full. I've said before that I think we can win the East. A lot of people think that we are going to throw away the season, or amazingly have admitted that they want us to, just for the sake of getting rid of Coughlin.I've also pointed out that even with my issues with Eli, that other teams have worse QB situations and that includes Dallas. I think Eli can be the guy that takes us there, but you can't sit there and say he doesn't have to improve.

 

I want the Giants to win, end of story.

[BadEgg]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not being a troll, but you're acting like one now. I posted something a while back on this thread directed to you and for some reason, you fail to respond?

 

I don't recall being directed anywhere. I apologze if I missed your post. You see, I am extremely popular, much like Tony Romo, and often have difficulty responding to all those seeking my attention.

 

Yes, being the voice of reason on this board is a tough job, but someone has to do it. :brooding:

[boohyah]

I don't recall being directed anywhere. I apologze if I missed your post. You see, I am extremely popular, much like Tony Romo, and often have difficulty responding to all those seeking my attention.

 

Yes, being the voice of reason on this board is a tough job, but someone has to do it. :brooding:

 

 

Never mind, I get the idea now. You're into creating a niche for yourself. I'm not seeking your attention but was merely responding to your post. Interpret as you wish.

[Treehugger]

I agree with Boohyah here. Eli has talent but he needs to step up, get his throws under control and be the QB we all hoped he would be coming out of the draft. Waaaay more plays fail due to his inaccuracy than any drops or bad routes by the receivers. We've seen flashes of brilliance but we need consistency.

[BIGBLUE01]

I agree with Boohyah here. Eli has talent but he needs to step up, get his throws under control and be the QB we all hoped he would be coming out of the draft. Waaaay more plays fail due to his inaccuracy than any drops or bad routes by the receivers. We've seen flashes of brilliance but we need consistency.

 

 

But Tree, how do you know that if the team stayed healthy, that there would be no slump? I find it highly coincidental(its not IMO) that his slumps come when we go down to injury. Look how he played when we werent. I agree he has to be more consistent, but what makes him inconsistent? Him? Or alot to endure early on? I know you would say "Great QB's step up in those situations" They do, after they struggle, just like his bro.

[Treehugger]

But Tree, how do you know that if the team stayed healthy, that there would be no slump? I find it highly coincidental(its not IMO) that his slumps come when we go down to injury. Look how he played when we werent. I agree he has to be more consistent, but what makes him inconsistent? Him? Or alot to endure early on? I know you would say "Great QB's step up in those situations" They do, after they struggle, just like his bro.

There's only so much blame that can be passed around to the rest of the team. Sure injuries were a big problem with the overall game play the last few seasons, but that's not what's effecting Eli's accuracy in particular.

[boohyah]

But Tree, how do you know that if the team stayed healthy, that there would be no slump? I find it highly coincidental(its not IMO) that his slumps come when we go down to injury. Look how he played when we werent. I agree he has to be more consistent, but what makes him inconsistent? Him? Or alot to endure early on? I know you would say "Great QB's step up in those situations" They do, after they struggle, just like his bro.

 

 

Peyton was 3-13 in his first season and 13-3 the next. He struggled for one year.

 

The "slump" has nothing to do with Tiki barber being wide open in the flat and having the ball thrown at his shoes. It has nothing to throwing passes all over the place. It's not just us saying it, you hear it from guys on TV, guys who have played the game saying it. In fact, when you look back last year, what side of the ball was hurt the worst by injuries, the defense. So you would think that you would want to try and keep those guys off the field as much as possible. Yet how many times did we go 3 and out late in the season?

[Nas]

Nas, got news for you. In the last 2 years, the entire team has been the victim of bad coaching, not just Eli.

 

The reason we throw more is because this team has more weapons offensively than teams in the past. Even so, Simms threw the ball a lot and so did Collins. And none of them had the full benefit or having a guy like Tiki on the team, in fact when Collins was QB, Tiki was fumbling a lot.

 

Not true at all. The basics of football is you run the ball down the opponent's throat till they stop the run. We used to pass the ball simply because Huf thought the oppenent would be caught off guard. Having weapons on the offense keeps the defense honest which means you can run the ball even more successfully.

 

You and Blue see my criticism of Eli and jump to the conclusion that I don't like the guy. The fact is that it's time like the Broncos comeback and several other games in his career that make me believe that this guy has the tools, he just needs to use them more often.

 

And neither Blue or myself disupted that Eli should and will get better.

 

I will not take back my comment that I feel that of all the players on offense he's the one that has to step it up the most and that includes our resident whipping boy Plax. Eli needs to take more command of the offense and make the throws he's supposed to make. He also has to adjust his calls sometimes, not just audible but he's got to go through his progressions faster.

 

Another thing guys, if you read my previous posts you'll see that I do think the glass is half full. I've said before that I think we can win the East. A lot of people think that we are going to throw away the season, or amazingly have admitted that they want us to, just for the sake of getting rid of Coughlin.I've also pointed out that even with my issues with Eli, that other teams have worse QB situations and that includes Dallas. I think Eli can be the guy that takes us there, but you can't sit there and say he doesn't have to improve.

 

I want the Giants to win, end of story.

 

We all want the Giants to win and I do believe the Giants will win the division.

[xxi-xxv]

Other than Tom Brady and Roethlisberger, how many of the so called great cant misses win Super Bowls early and and have tremendous success? Lets take a look at some of the high 1st round picks at QB over the last 30 years that have had successful careers and or won Super Bowls.

 

Joe Montana, took him until his 3rd season to both make the playoffs and win a SB(and he was a 3rd rounder)

Phil Simms, took him until his 6th season to make the playoffs and 8th to win a SB.

Dan Marino, made the playoffs in his first year and took a team to the Sb the next.

John Elway, made the playoffs his 2nd year and made it to a SB in his 4th, did not win one until his 15th and 16th

Steve Young, took him 2 leagues, 2 teams and a great supporting cast in his 8th year to start and make the

playoffs.

Vinny Testaverde, made the playoffs in his 8th year, with his 2nd team

Troy Aikman, made the playoffs in year 3 and won a SB in year 4

Jim Kelly, made playoffs in his 4th year and SB appearance in his 6th

(Exclude Brett Favre from this as he was a 2nd round pick).

Drew Bledsoe, SB in year 4.

 

Now lets look at some the guys that were so so as 1st round highly touted Qb's

Tony Eason, terrible after early success with NE in a very watered down AFC of the mid 80's

Ken O'Brien, playoff QB in years 3 and 4. Killed by NY media and never had good coaching

Jeff George, a true talent an even truer piece of shit

Rick Mirer

Now lets look at some of the busts.

Andre Ware

Turk Shonert

Todd Blackledge

David Klingler

Dan McGwire

Ryan Leaf

Akili Smith

Tim Couch

The shittiness of this bunch is not even worth mentioning what they could not do.

 

Now I have to ask all the ELI haters and lovers. Is ELI anywhere near as bad as the latter bunch in that group? The honest objectionable answer is NO. He has had more success than that group of shit combined. Same question holds for the so so guys? Only real non bias answer is that he has had equal to or more success than most of them. As for the first list, well thats easy no he is nowhere near those guys at this point.

 

I think the one common denominator we can take out of the ELI experience of the first 3 years is that he is not a total bust like the latter group. That should make Giants fans feel good. He is at least as good as the middle group if not better, which should make Giants fans at least hope for more and he is nowhere near the first group, but like most of them he has time on his side.

 

To call him a bust or a question mark after 2 years as a starter and 50 tds and a playoff experience stems from a media hatred of his draft day handling. So be it. Looking at it objectionably there is no way to call him a bust.