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Do you personaly think that when Bonds breaks the record that he's deserving on passing Aaron??? I know there is "some" debate he in the later part of Aaron's career that he might have been juiceing, but there's no proof just speculation, so therefore the record is his with no question. You being a S.F. Giants fan will you be happy for him and think he's deserving of it? Or are you embarrassed of the fact your team is supporting a cheater??? What is your honest uptake on this??? Your opinion would be much appreciated

Thanks

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yes, i will be happy for him but i don't put much stock in personal records. rings are what counts.

the bonds story is much bigger everywhere else than SF, we're just happy armando NaBalkoff is gone. if you go on the giants board, the only bonds stories are started by trolls.

 

any fan of baseball in this era has supported cheaters, i am not embarassed. that was a dumb question.

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Do you personaly think that when Bonds breaks the record that he's deserving on passing Aaron??? I know there is "some" debate he in the later part of Aaron's career that he might have been juiceing, but there's no proof just speculation, so therefore the record is his with no question. You being a S.F. Giants fan will you be happy for him and think he's deserving of it? Or are you embarrassed of the fact your team is supporting a cheater??? What is your honest uptake on this??? Your opinion would be much appreciated

Thanks

It's more or less just specualation with Bonds too. Can you name the last 5 guys to fail the MLB drug test? Are you embarassed your team is supporting Guillermo Mota? Also, be careful about labeling guys cheaters since its very likely the Mets were at the forefront of all this roids stuff.

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yes, i will be happy for him but i don't put much stock in personal records. rings are what counts.

the bonds story is much bigger everywhere else than SF, we're just happy armando NaBalkoff is gone. if you go on the giants board, the only bonds stories are started by trolls.

 

any fan of baseball in this era has supported cheaters, i am not embarassed. that was a dumb question.

When I said embarassed I didn't mean it offensively. I just wanted to know how you felt. I personaly have liked Bonds since he was a Pirate in the early '90's... I think if anyone made baseball fun to watch before and after those strikes they had was him... steriods to me is a retarded issue to put drama into a once beautiful sport. Who's to say alot of the greats in boxing, football, baseball, etc. didn't do steriods before the testing was so hard core. People always need speculation. I just wanted the opinion of a SF Giants fan, I never meant to accuse you of liking a guy who "cheats". He was the reason I first starting watching baseball...

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When I said embarassed I didn't mean it offensively. I just wanted to know how you felt. I personaly have liked Bonds since he was a Pirate in the early '90's... I think if anyone made baseball fun to watch before and after those strikes they had was him... steriods to me is a retarded issue to put drama into a once beautiful sport. Who's to say alot of the greats in boxing, football, baseball, etc. didn't do steriods before the testing was so hard core. People always need speculation. I just wanted the opinion of a SF Giants fan, I never meant to accuse you of liking a guy who "cheats". He was the reason I first starting watching baseball...

ok, no sweat. mostly, it's about the little nancy boys in the media not liking that he looks at them cockeyed. if he was a media darling, it would be very different. i'm not condoning his behavior, just don't think it should make him take the bullet for a generation.

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I still hate Bonds, but it has nothing to do with steroids. I think he's a cheater, but still a great player regardless. The guy is just an awesome hitter, and he was for a long time before this steroid mess.

 

I wish the Mets hadn't re-signed Mota at the time, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't going to root for him. He's a Met, so I have to root for him.

 

It will be very embarassing if we come to find out that the Mets of the 80s were juicing it up. I think it's unlikely though. They were doing plenty of drugs, but I don't think steroids were one of them. \

 

But then, there is Lenny Dykstra, so who knows?

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I still hate Bonds, but it has nothing to do with steroids. I think he's a cheater, but still a great player regardless. The guy is just an awesome hitter, and he was for a long time before this steroid mess.

 

I wish the Mets hadn't re-signed Mota at the time, but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't going to root for him. He's a Met, so I have to root for him.

 

It will be very embarassing if we come to find out that the Mets of the 80s were juicing it up. I think it's unlikely though. They were doing plenty of drugs, but I don't think steroids were one of them. \

 

But then, there is Lenny Dykstra, so who knows?

 

 

Yeah dude, 'roids rock!

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What annoys me the most is people saying that it's speculation that Bonds used steroids, too. This is not true. Barry himself testified that he used steroids, albeit unknowingly. If you believe that he was taking a regular regimen of "the cream" and didn't know what it was, you are likely a SF fan. The stuff was being supplied by his OWN personal trainer, Greg Anderson, who was being supplied from BALCO. Andersen has at least served some time in jail for distribution and may still be there. Andersen will not say if he gave them to Barry. His silence is deafening. Additionally, Barry pressured the SF Giants to hiring Anderson when they didn't need or want another trainer. He was hired just to appease Barry. Barry has known Anderson for a long time, they are good friends. This went beyond a client/trainer relationship. They were workout partners, close friends, and Anderson is a convicted dealer who Bonds pressured the Giants into giving him a job. There's no doubt in my mind that Barry knew that he was getting the cream and what it was. Besides the cream, there's the clear, and HGH (all supplied by BALCO and Victor Conte, all distributed to Anderson, who distributed it further), which Bonds could still be using, because baseball still can't test for it... only a blood test can ID the use of HGH. There's much less evidence that McGwire used them, and I reject his accomplishments as tainted as well... At least Mota served a lengthy suspension. People that believe that it's just a witchhunt and all the evidence is speculatory and shaky have not actually studied the facts of the Bonds case. People don't hate Bonds because he's not a media darling. They just don't want him recognized as the homerun king when he cheated for so long, and he has continually deceived MLB, baseball fans, and the rest of the sports world. Prior to the grand jury hearing when he testified, he repeatedly denied EVER using steroids at all. He stood there and lied to us, telling us he was clean. Then, all of a sudden, when he has to testify in front of a federal grand jury under oath, his story changes! "Well I used, but I didn't know it was steroids when I took it." When did you know Barry? Did your buddy Greg tell you a week later? Perhaps AFTER your 73 homerun season? So he kept you in the dark about what it was when he gave it to you but you found out later how? My belief is that Barry said he didn't know because he was afraid that sometime someone would be able to prove that he did, even Greg Anderson. Maybe he was even afraid that Greg would snitch on him to get a lesser sentence. But nobody would be able to prove that Barry knew what was going into his body. The "I didn't know" excuse is as lame as "the dog ate my homework" but it works to dissuade a burden of proof. His records are tainted. Just because other players have done it still doesn't make what Bonds did ok. I hold the same contempt for Palmeiro and others. If Barry would come clean about his usage (including HGH), I would actually have some respect for him, like I hold a smidgeon of respect for Giambi (but not much). But it's the continual deception and the constant debate of 'did he or didn't he' that I can't stand. He did use, and we know that by his own half-assed admission. There is no debate, at the least, about the cream. We should never celebrate the accomplishments of someone who acheived something through dishonesty and outright cheating just because others did it too. It doesn't, and never will, make it ok. If I made it rich by stepping on the little people, I'm still an asshole even though a lot of other people make it rich that way, too. And yet, people want to diminish Hank based soley on production. I would never accuse Barry soley on production. It's the radical physical metamorphis (to include the increase in the size of his head), the testimony of particulars, his closeness with Anderson (who Giambi was supplied from as well), and Barry's own inconsistency of his own defense. He's just like OJ, he did it, everyone knows he did it, but he got away with it.

 

I hope that when Barry breaks the record, he will be on the road. And I hope that when he hits that homerun, the fans, in unison, turn their backs on him in a hushed silence. Because that is what all baseball fans should do to commemorate an accomplishment won with the power of the juice. That would send a message that we all still believe that cheating is not ok. And SF fans should do the same. If you cheer this accomplishment, what does that say about what you think about fairness and integrity? Do those values exist only when it's convenient? If Mota was going to surpass Hoffman's saves record one day, I would hold contempt for it, even though he's a Met. But at least he's had to answer for his actions to some degree. And if he does it again, he loses an entire season.

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What annoys me the most is people saying that it's speculation that Bonds used steroids, too. This is not true. Barry himself testified that he used steroids, albeit unknowingly. If you believe that he was taking a regular regimen of "the cream" and didn't know what it was, you are likely a SF fan. The stuff was being supplied by his OWN personal trainer, Greg Anderson, who was being supplied from BALCO. Andersen has at least served some time in jail for distribution and may still be there. Andersen will not say if he gave them to Barry. His silence is deafening. Additionally, Barry pressured the SF Giants to hiring Anderson when they didn't need or want another trainer. He was hired just to appease Barry. Barry has known Anderson for a long time, they are good friends. This went beyond a client/trainer relationship. They were workout partners, close friends, and Anderson is a convicted dealer who Bonds pressured the Giants into giving him a job. There's no doubt in my mind that Barry knew that he was getting the cream and what it was. Besides the cream, there's the clear, and HGH (all supplied by BALCO and Victor Conte, all distributed to Anderson, who distributed it further), which Bonds could still be using, because baseball still can't test for it... only a blood test can ID the use of HGH. There's much less evidence that McGwire used them, and I reject his accomplishments as tainted as well... At least Mota served a lengthy suspension. People that believe that it's just a witchhunt and all the evidence is speculatory and shaky have not actually studied the facts of the Bonds case. People don't hate Bonds because he's not a media darling. They just don't want him recognized as the homerun king when he cheated for so long, and he has continually deceived MLB, baseball fans, and the rest of the sports world. Prior to the grand jury hearing when he testified, he repeatedly denied EVER using steroids at all. He stood there and lied to us, telling us he was clean. Then, all of a sudden, when he has to testify in front of a federal grand jury under oath, his story changes! "Well I used, but I didn't know it was steroids when I took it." When did you know Barry? Did your buddy Greg tell you a week later? Perhaps AFTER your 73 homerun season? So he kept you in the dark about what it was when he gave it to you but you found out later how? My belief is that Barry said he didn't know because he was afraid that sometime someone would be able to prove that he did, even Greg Anderson. Maybe he was even afraid that Greg would snitch on him to get a lesser sentence. But nobody would be able to prove that Barry knew what was going into his body. The "I didn't know" excuse is as lame as "the dog ate my homework" but it works to dissuade a burden of proof. His records are tainted. Just because other players have done it still doesn't make what Bonds did ok. I hold the same contempt for Palmeiro and others. If Barry would come clean about his usage (including HGH), I would actually have some respect for him, like I hold a smidgeon of respect for Giambi (but not much). But it's the continual deception and the constant debate of 'did he or didn't he' that I can't stand. He did use, and we know that by his own half-assed admission. There is no debate, at the least, about the cream. We should never celebrate the accomplishments of someone who acheived something through dishonesty and outright cheating just because others did it too. It doesn't, and never will, make it ok. If I made it rich by stepping on the little people, I'm still an asshole even though a lot of other people make it rich that way, too. And yet, people want to diminish Hank based soley on production. I would never accuse Barry soley on production. It's the radical physical metamorphis (to include the increase in the size of his head), the testimony of particulars, his closeness with Anderson (who Giambi was supplied from as well), and Barry's own inconsistency of his own defense. He's just like OJ, he did it, everyone knows he did it, but he got away with it.

 

I hope that when Barry breaks the record, he will be on the road. And I hope that when he hits that homerun, the fans, in unison, turn their backs on him in a hushed silence. Because that is what all baseball fans should do to commemorate an accomplishment won with the power of the juice. That would send a message that we all still believe that cheating is not ok. And SF fans should do the same. If you cheer this accomplishment, what does that say about what you think about fairness and integrity? Do those values exist only when it's convenient? If Mota was going to surpass Hoffman's saves record one day, I would hold contempt for it, even though he's a Met. But at least he's had to answer for his actions to some degree. And if he does it again, he loses an entire season.

 

 

Again, who cares.

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thank you, mr. paragraph for the chapter from game of shadows. how come you didn't address my response to you in your bonds thread?

 

 

These are all facts of the case, I have never even read Game of Shadows, homey. Seriously. This is all information that has come to light during the investigation. I didn't even go into his extra-marital girlfriend who says that he even talked to her about doing it, because she *COULD* have selfish motivation for lying, but it really would be icing on the cake, anyways.

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thank you, mr. paragraph for the chapter from game of shadows. how come you didn't address my response to you in your bonds thread?

 

 

I didn't even say anything about Hank, because that is only speculation based on productivity. There were, and could be more, variables and factors that explain Hank's continued power output other than 'roids. I also contend that they were not being used like you suggest in the late 60's and 70's. Even Mike Schmidt, who played in the 70's and early 80's, said he would've used them "if they were around." The implication is that he didn't, because they weren't. I believe Mike Schmidt, although even if you don't, I believe that something like that would've been leaked a long time ago if it was as prevalent and widespread as you suggest, like the current scandal was. Additionally, the roids that they could've used were unsafe. Even Alzado using the roids from the late 70s and early 80s, had tremendous adverse health effects. There was no great physical metamorphisis from those players, either, and none of them have suffered the complications they would have had they been on them. I just don't buy Hammerin' Hank on the 'roids. You can't go by stats alone.

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A lot of baseball fans who remember when acheivements were earned honestly.

Whats honestly? Is drinking coke that contains cocaine before games honest? Is taking speed before games honest? ball players have always.....always done whatever they can do to get a competitive edge.

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I didn't even say anything about Hank, because that is only speculation based on productivity. There were, and could be more, variables and factors that explain Hank's continued power output other than 'roids. I also contend that they were not being used like you suggest in the late 60's and 70's. Even Mike Schmidt, who played in the 70's and early 80's, said he would've used them "if they were around." The implication is that he didn't, because they weren't. I believe Mike Schmidt, although even if you don't, I believe that something like that would've been leaked a long time ago if it was as prevalent and widespread as you suggest, like the current scandal was. Additionally, the roids that they could've used were unsafe. Even Alzado using the roids from the late 70s and early 80s, had tremendous adverse health effects. There was no great physical metamorphisis from those players, either, and none of them have suffered the complications they would have had they been on them. I just don't buy Hammerin' Hank on the 'roids. You can't go by stats alone.

kids now will probably refer to this time as the time when 'baseball was pure'

i've explained the reason it hasn't come out, there was no testing. and, if you admit it's so widespread now, why blame bonds? wasn't roid enhanced pitchers pitching to him? weren't roid enhanced right fielders snagging Hr's from him. why is he better than everyone else? why hasn't there been that giambi or sosa-esque drop off in production?

you just hate him because he pretty.

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I originally didnt have a problem with Bonds until I read up more on what he did. What a true asshole and classless dick he was in his time in the majors.

 

I don't blame Bonds for being successful for Steroids. I blame Bonds for being a jerk in the process.

 

If Bonds was a nicer guy, what's the difference between him and Alex Gonzalez? One had success with it, the other didn't. Too bad though, Bonds brought that on himself.

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I originally didnt have a problem with Bonds until I read up more on what he did. What a true asshole and classless dick he was in his time in the majors.

 

I don't blame Bonds for being successful for Steroids. I blame Bonds for being a jerk in the process.

 

If Bonds was a nicer guy, what's the difference between him and Alex Gonzalez? One had success with it, the other didn't. Too bad though, Bonds brought that on himself.

you're right, he's a prick. not a first for an athlete. psst, he's still in the majors, although the giants haven't played very major league lately.

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