Preseason QB rankings

[Allstarjim]

in 2004 if you asked me if you would take 50 TDs from Manning,

1 Division Title and another playoff apperance I would have said

"fuck yeah, where do I sign."

 

 

Rivers also as a Division title already and a pro bowl after one year of starting. Your argument still doesn't make the trade wash. It was, always has been, and always will be, a bad mistake by the Giants GM. And before you start with the whole, Rivers has the best RB in football argument, we also had an all-pro running back and a better WR corp. All that said, I am an Eli supporter because he is a NY Giant. But I will not be a homer and say that Rivers sucks and isn't as good and the trade was a good one because it wasn't.

[RandolphScott]

Rivers also as a Division title already and a pro bowl after one year of starting. Your argument still doesn't make the trade wash. It was, always has been, and always will be, a bad mistake by the Giants GM. And before you start with the whole, Rivers has the best RB in football argument, we also had an all-pro running back and a better WR corp. All that said, I am an Eli supporter because he is a NY Giant. But I will not be a homer and say that Rivers sucks and isn't as good and the trade was a good one because it wasn't.

 

 

Eli Manning doesn't have a division title?

 

I could be a quarterback if I could hand the ball off to

LaDainian Tomlinson 30 times a game.

 

I have no idea where your getting that I'm saying Rivers sucks,

he doesn't. He has a great running back, and had a coach that understood

what it took to call a good offensive game plan.

 

Sure the Giants have a better WR corp when they actually show up to games.

 

Oh and Tony Romo has a probowl apperance, it's nothing more than a popularity

contest.

[Allstarjim]

How do you know that Whimper is not the answer for the Giants

offensive line? Are you in the meetings with Jerry Reese, Chris Mara and

all of the scouts. If you are, please enlighten me.

 

Many draft experts thought Robert Gallery was the next coming

of Johnathan Odgen. Whoops.

 

 

No, I'm not in the meetings with Reese and Mara and the scouts. Although I wish I was when they drafted some of the guys they have in recent years. And Gallery is a better answer than what we have right now with Deihl moving out of position and Whimper backing him up. Although I think Deihl can do the job, God help us if he gets hurt. And if I'm wrong, explain to me how the Giants went 6-2 with Petitgout, and as soon as he got hurt, not only did the Bears game go tits up, we went on a 4 game losing streak with Eli's play being vastly diminished, and finished 2-6? The FACT is that we lost the season when we lost Petitgout last year, and we let him walk and we didn't do anything to replace him except move a guy out of position thereby weakening depth on the inside, with NO depth at LT. The addition of Staley would've given us a line of:

 

Staley

Deihl

O'Hara

Snee

McKenzie

 

Probably the best line in football if Staley lives up to his potential. If he doesn't, we can still move Deihl to the outside until Staley learns, and he could've backed up. Not to mention, we still could've had a CB with 1st round talent in the 2nd round in Eric Wright, because God knows we needed another WR. Admittedly, Wright has "character" issues, but it's a gamble I would take. Every draft pick is a gamble.

[RandolphScott]

No, I'm not in the meetings with Reese and Mara and the scouts. Although I wish I was when they drafted some of the guys they have in recent years. And Gallery is a better answer than what we have right now with Deihl moving out of position and Whimper backing him up. Although I think Deihl can do the job, God help us if he gets hurt. And if I'm wrong, explain to me how the Giants went 6-2 with Petitgout, and as soon as he got hurt, not only did the Bears game go tits up, we went on a 4 game losing streak with Eli's play being vastly diminished, and finished 2-6? The FACT is that we lost the season when we lost Petitgout last year, and we let him walk and we didn't do anything to replace him except move a guy out of position thereby weakening depth on the inside, with NO depth at LT. The addition of Staley would've given us a line of:

 

Staley

Deihl

O'Hara

Snee

McKenzie

 

Probably the best line in football if Staley lives up to his potential. If he doesn't, we can still move Deihl to the outside until Staley learns, and he could've backed up. Not to mention, we still could've had a CB with 1st round talent in the 2nd round in Eric Wright, because God knows we needed another WR. Admittedly, Wright has "character" issues, but it's a gamble I would take. Every draft pick is a gamble.

 

 

You just proved my point, thanks. What I bolded means that Staley is infact a project

left tackle. And the best line in football probably goes to the Colts or Chargers.

[Allstarjim]

Eli Manning doesn't have a division title?

 

I could be a quarterback if I could hand the ball off to

LaDainian Tomlinson 30 times a game.

 

I have no idea where your getting that I'm saying Rivers sucks,

he doesn't. He has a great running back, and had a coach that understood

what it took to call a good offensive game plan.

 

Sure the Giants have a better WR corp when they actually show up to games.

 

Oh and Tony Romo has a probowl apperance, it's nothing more than a popularity

contest.

 

 

You're not saying he sucks, but you're not giving him his due either. Eli had Tiki Barber, and he has played up and down. Rivers has played stellar. Even when he's needed to throw, he has been one of the top QB's in the NFL. The guy is damn good, and deserved his Pro Bowl spot BASED ON HIS PERFORMANCE. The Tomlinson argument as I stated doesn't wash when you compare the two Quarterbacks, because Eli also had Tiki, and in fact, Tiki is one of the only reasons we haven't been in the cellar the last couple of years. The fact is, Tiki helped Manning by masking his deficiencies, because Tiki could move the chains by himself. Tomlinson has not NEEDED to do that for Rivers because Rivers has performed in his own right. Therefore, instead of Tomlinson carrying all the weight, they have complemented eachother, making them that much more dangerous, which is why they went 14-2 last year. By contrast Tiki has HAD to carry our team. The difference is that the Chargers can win by running Tomlinson 30 times a game, or by Rivers throwing the ball 40 times a game, while the Giants could only win with Tiki dominating the offense the last couple of seasons, and that's the truth. And my point is that a big reason for that is because we have not given Eli help by shoring up LT. He needs that so desperately and we are seemingly unwilling to give it to him.

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

You just proved my point, thanks. What I bolded means that Staley is infact a project

left tackle. And the best line in football probably goes to the Colts or Chargers.

 

 

The best line in football has been the Colts for some time. It's a lot more than just blocking. These guys get into line without knowing what play they are going to run. They have to adjust to Peyton's play calling every play. No other line in the league has to deal with that. AND they win on top of it.

[Allstarjim]

You just proved my point, thanks. What I bolded means that Staley is infact a project

left tackle. And the best line in football probably goes to the Colts or Chargers.

 

 

Just because I worded it that way doesn't mean that your point is proved. I fully expect Staley to be a very good if not great LT year one. The truth is, with every draft pick there is a degree of uncertainty. As you pointed out with Gallery, and I pointed out with Allen, Peterson, and Webster. You draft on need, and we desperately needed a LT and the Giants DID NOTHING. They waited until round 6 to draft a tackle! That is stupid! What happens if Ross doesn't pan out just like all the other CB's the Giants have drafted in recent years? Then they have wasted another 1st rounder on a CB that is not significantly going to help the team. Staley would do that, and better, he would've helped the entire offense by allowing Eli to succeed. As I said, if the learning curve was too great for him year 1, we would still be in the same spot by drafting CB Wright in the 2nd round, instead of another WR we don't NEED. And we would still have Staley for 2008 and beyond. Simply put, it is MUCH MORE difficult to find a dominant LT in the draft OR in free agency than a CB. There are plenty of CBs out there, but how many dominant LT's are there in ALL OF FOOTBALL? Not many! And worse, that's exactly what Eli needs to be a great QB! A dominant LT! Not average, not good, but a GREAT LT.

[Allstarjim]

The best line in football has been the Colts for some time. It's a lot more than just blocking. These guys get into line without knowing what play they are going to run. They have to adjust to Peyton's play calling every play. No other line in the league has to deal with that. AND they win on top of it.

 

 

We're talking semantics here. My point is that the Giants line would be leaps and bounds better and could rate up there with the best had we drafted Staley. Staley, IMO, is not a project LT like Guy Whimper. Not even Jemarcus Russell or Calvin Johnson is a lock to pan out to be a great player, though.

[Virginia Giant]

VG - I have to take exception with this part of your argument. First of all, had we not worked the trade out for Eli, we probably still would've drafted Rivers and kept him, alienating Collins just as much, and more than likely he would've still wanted out. I am not convinced that we would not have been in the 14th position because we still could have ended up in the same situation with Warner as the starter and Rivers the backup. Rivers is a good QB. His first season starting he made the Pro Bowl. You can make any excuses, but I don't see how by year three, starting for two years makes a difference over sitting for two years. Fact of the matter is that Eli has had more experience in front of the top level of competiton, while Rivers has come in and played exceptionally well. I think by this point Eli should have shown more. Furthermore, with respect to the rankings, although Eli was rated higher it was very, very close. Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger will all rated extremely high, with Manning barely clipping Rivers. Rivers also had the better college stats, was a better proven college winner, and had/has more mobility than Manning. There was no reason to trade up when you have two players at the same position that are so closely rated. In truth, Accorsi did it because they fell in love with the Manning name and thought he had this mystical ability to like that of Elway to win the Superbowl. Even though Elway didn't win until the last two seasons of his long and storied career. Remember the quotes from Accorsi following that draft? It was a bad rationalization at the time, bad logic, and a terrible decision that they overpaid for in trading up from #4 to grab Manning, when Rivers was right there.

 

That said, Eli is better than this ranking, and I would have him somewhere between 8-10. And Rivers, if not deserving of the number 5 ranking, should at worst be number 6, with only Donovan McNabb edging him.

 

 

I dissagree, while we may have still taken Rivers 9actually we definitely would have taken him cause we had to take him to trade him). But I don't think Kerry responds the same. Eli was thought to be NFL ready coming out and Rivers was thought to be a really good long term project, just like SD did, 2 or 3 years watching then taking over,. I think if we keep Rivers, Kerry stays at least that year.

[RandolphScott]

I dissagree, while we may have still taken Rivers 9actually we definitely would have taken him cause we had to take him to trade him). But I don't think Kerry responds the same. Eli was thought to be NFL ready coming out and Rivers was thought to be a really good long term project, just like SD did, 2 or 3 years watching then taking over,. I think if we keep Rivers, Kerry stays at least that year.

 

 

If the Giants kept Rivers or drafted Roethlisberger, I really don't

think they have half of the success as Eli Manning has.

[RandolphScott]

You're not saying he sucks, but you're not giving him his due either. Eli had Tiki Barber, and he has played up and down. Rivers has played stellar. Even when he's needed to throw, he has been one of the top QB's in the NFL. The guy is damn good, and deserved his Pro Bowl spot BASED ON HIS PERFORMANCE. The Tomlinson argument as I stated doesn't wash when you compare the two Quarterbacks, because Eli also had Tiki, and in fact, Tiki is one of the only reasons we haven't been in the cellar the last couple of years. The fact is, Tiki helped Manning by masking his deficiencies, because Tiki could move the chains by himself. Tomlinson has not NEEDED to do that for Rivers because Rivers has performed in his own right. Therefore, instead of Tomlinson carrying all the weight, they have complemented eachother, making them that much more dangerous, which is why they went 14-2 last year. By contrast Tiki has HAD to carry our team. The difference is that the Chargers can win by running Tomlinson 30 times a game, or by Rivers throwing the ball 40 times a game, while the Giants could only win with Tiki dominating the offense the last couple of seasons, and that's the truth. And my point is that a big reason for that is because we have not given Eli help by shoring up LT. He needs that so desperately and we are seemingly unwilling to give it to him.

 

 

Hmmm, 5 TDs to 28 TDs. Hmmm.

[BIGBLUE01]

Hmmm, 5 TDs to 28 TDs. Hmmm.

 

You took the words righht outta my mouth.

 

Yeah, Ladanian doesnt carry that team, he only has ALMOST ALL THE TD's they scored.......HELLO!

[RandolphScott]

You took the words righht outta my mouth.

 

Yeah, Ladanian doesnt carry that team, he only has ALMOST ALL THE TD's they scored.......HELLO!

 

 

The guy even threw for some touchdowns.

[Allstarjim]

The guy even threw for some touchdowns.

 

 

AND? Tiki set up most of the TD's for the Giants. That argument is so stupid... you guys are being homers. How many TDs did Brandon Jacobs have because Tiki got us down to the goalline? If you think Tiki hasn't carried the offense the last couple of years, you've been watching different games than I have. I don't have to argue this point. Rivers numbers speak for themselves. You're also wrong that Rivers was considered a long term project. Even San Diego wasn't sure if Brees would win the starting job that season. Nobody drafts a QB that early in the first round as a long term project. You do it a year or two if you can. Just like the Giants were going to do with Eli except Warner didn't perform. You guys cannot look at the situation from an unbiased position. I love the Giants, they are my team, but your blind allegiance to Eli is disgusting. Is LT better than Tiki, sure, but Tiki was still an All-Pro and the greatest running back in Giants history, and had his best seasons ever the last 2-3 years. LT is better, but Rivers is a great QB, and had we had him with Tiki... guess what? Tiki might still be here, and we more than likely would have had a better fortune in the playoffs than we had the last 2 years. Rivers is the better QB, and we fucked up by trading up. I still think Eli has a chance, but just about everyone outside of the Giants homer fans recognize that the Giants were wrong for making that trade. Even Rivers college numbers were better, and he won every bowl game he started as well. He even took NC State to a BCS if I remember correct and won that game, too. The ONLY 2 reasons Rivers wasn't more highly regarded is because of his slightly diagonal arm angle and that Eli had "Manning" on the back of his jersey. And time (although it already has) will tell that I'm right about this. Rivers is a fantastic QB, a pro bowl caliber QB already. I don't care if he's sat for 2 years or not. He still came in against NFL competition and lit it up when he had to.

[Allstarjim]

If the Giants kept Rivers or drafted Roethlisberger, I really don't

think they have half of the success as Eli Manning has.

 

 

Jury is still out on Roethlisberger, but Eli so far has not performed as well as Rivers, so that argument is foolish. After 3 years, Giants fans need to stop making excuses for him, Accorsi, and the rest of the Giants brass and Eli needs to ACTUALLY PLAY BETTER.

[RandolphScott]

AND? Tiki set up most of the TD's for the Giants. That argument is so stupid... you guys are being homers. How many TDs did Brandon Jacobs have because Tiki got us down to the goalline? If you think Tiki hasn't carried the offense the last couple of years, you've been watching different games than I have. I don't have to argue this point. Rivers numbers speak for themselves. You're also wrong that Rivers was considered a long term project. Even San Diego wasn't sure if Brees would win the starting job that season. Nobody drafts a QB that early in the first round as a long term project. You do it a year or two if you can. Just like the Giants were going to do with Eli except Warner didn't perform. You guys cannot look at the situation from an unbiased position. I love the Giants, they are my team, but your blind allegiance to Eli is disgusting. Is LT better than Tiki, sure, but Tiki was still an All-Pro and the greatest running back in Giants history, and had his best seasons ever the last 2-3 years. LT is better, but Rivers is a great QB, and had we had him with Tiki... guess what? Tiki might still be here, and we more than likely would have had a better fortune in the playoffs than we had the last 2 years. Rivers is the better QB, and we fucked up by trading up. I still think Eli has a chance, but just about everyone outside of the Giants homer fans recognize that the Giants were wrong for making that trade. Even Rivers college numbers were better, and he won every bowl game he started as well. He even took NC State to a BCS if I remember correct and won that game, too. The ONLY 2 reasons Rivers wasn't more highly regarded is because of his slightly diagonal arm angle and that Eli had "Manning" on the back of his jersey. And time (although it already has) will tell that I'm right about this. Rivers is a fantastic QB, a pro bowl caliber QB already. I don't care if he's sat for 2 years or not. He still came in against NFL competition and lit it up when he had to.

 

 

Okay, you said that Tiki Barber is a "1st ballet HOF" yeah, okay and I'm

being a homer. And don't give me that bullshit if Rivers is in NYC then Tiki stays,

we all know why Tiki left, 2 words: Tom Coughlin.

[Allstarjim]

Okay, you said that Tiki Barber is a "1st ballet HOF" yeah, okay and I'm

being a homer. And don't give me that bullshit if Rivers is in NYC then Tiki stays,

we all know why Tiki left, 2 words: Tom Coughlin.

 

 

If he's not then he's not far off. You did, after all, say he was a HOFer, just not a 1st ballot one. I don't even know what that means. He's not good enough the first time around but some other year he will be good enough? You are being a homer because you can't look at that trade objectively, or Rivers objectively. You blindly praise Eli and think he's better despite ALL evidence to the contrary. He hasn't got the job done well enough, and that is why we've been a mediocre team the last two years, despite having one of the best running backs in football having record breaking seasons. You do have a point about Tom Coughlin. Coughlin treats his accomplished vets like there all rookies. He alienated his entire team in Jax and he's already hurt our team. And Tiki probably would've stayed if Coughlin was shown the door. Unfortunately, they'll probably end up firing Coughlin a year too late.

[fishgutmartyr]

No, I'm not in the meetings with Reese and Mara and the scouts. Although I wish I was when they drafted some of the guys they have in recent years. And Gallery is a better answer than what we have right now with Deihl moving out of position and Whimper backing him up. Although I think Deihl can do the job, God help us if he gets hurt. And if I'm wrong, explain to me how the Giants went 6-2 with Petitgout, and as soon as he got hurt, not only did the Bears game go tits up, we went on a 4 game losing streak with Eli's play being vastly diminished, and finished 2-6? The FACT is that we lost the season when we lost Petitgout last year, and we let him walk and we didn't do anything to replace him except move a guy out of position thereby weakening depth on the inside, with NO depth at LT. The addition of Staley would've given us a line of:

 

Staley

Deihl

O'Hara

Snee

McKenzie

 

Probably the best line in football if Staley lives up to his potential. If he doesn't, we can still move Deihl to the outside until Staley learns, and he could've backed up. Not to mention, we still could've had a CB with 1st round talent in the 2nd round in Eric Wright, because God knows we needed another WR. Admittedly, Wright has "character" issues, but it's a gamble I would take. Every draft pick is a gamble.

OK, you are completely underestimating the defensive injuries and how they played into the second half record. I'm not using this as an excuse because Ernie seemed to actually enjoy not having linebackers for the second half of the season, based on his FA selections. But we lost 3 of our 4 DE's, and our two starting corners were struggling with injuries as well (Madison with a hamstring, Webster had a hip problem, I think). That, tied in with a remarkable for all the wrong reasons defensive scheme, was easily more responsible for our second half record than any injury on the offense.

 

Of course mind-bogglingly bad coaching decisions didn't help matters, either.

 

Additionally, I think Toomer's injury was significantly more damaging than Pettigout's. Not only did Manning lose someone who was obviously his go to guy, but Tim Carter didn't exactly fill the league with fear as Toomer's replacement. That allowed Shockey and Burress to get the undivided attention of opposing coverages, and Carter was completely unable to take advantage.

 

But even after Pettitgout went down, we were still able to run the ball. Pity that Hufnagel didn't take advantage of it, but he was shown the error of his ways (and the door) by the end of the season. And pass protection did take a hit, but not as significantly as one would expect when losing a LT. You also need to remember that we were playing with Bob "Coach said to use my head" Whitfield for most of those losses, not Diehl.

 

And I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Whimper. He was a 4th rounder in a very good year for tackles. I wonder where Staley would have been picked if he came up last year. Even better, Whimper has a year under his belt, which means that he is improved in strength/size, which would put him further along than Staley. Coughlin hasn't ruled him out yet, which is a good sign.

 

Now this Rivers/Manning thing. Rivers had an all-time running back and tight-end at his disposal. Yes, Barber and Shockey were all-pro, but can you seriously compare them? But more importantly, the OC had the good sense to take advantage of these weapons, and thereby take pressure off of Rivers in the process, and let him ease into the flow of things. Manning hasn't gotten that--Hufnagel had him passing in inexplicable situations (see Titans game), and Shockey was almost an afterthought. Burress may be the best WR we've had in a loooonnngg time, but he isn't exactly Marvin Harrison, either.

[Pizaster]

If he's not then he's not far off. You did, after all, say he was a HOFer, just not a 1st ballot one. I don't even know what that means. He's not good enough the first time around but some other year he will be good enough? You are being a homer because you can't look at that trade objectively, or Rivers objectively. You blindly praise Eli and think he's better despite ALL evidence to the contrary. He hasn't got the job done well enough, and that is why we've been a mediocre team the last two years, despite having one of the best running backs in football having record breaking seasons. You do have a point about Tom Coughlin. Coughlin treats his accomplished vets like there all rookies. He alienated his entire team in Jax and he's already hurt our team. And Tiki probably would've stayed if Coughlin was shown the door. Unfortunately, they'll probably end up firing Coughlin a year too late.

 

 

Hey Guys -

 

Sorry to chime in on the conversation, and I know I haven't posted in a while but I couldn't help but throw my two cents here. Last year, during the preseason, I heard the same EXACT conversations, only this time people were comparing Roethlisberger and Manning and stating how much better HE is than Manning. While I will certainly give Rivers his due because he deserves it, I think Eli deserves equal due as well. Unlike Rothlis AND Rivers, Manning has been able to A) Stay virtually injury free and on the field for all 16 games, B) Pick up the offense from the get-go and putup big numbers when asked, and C) Has had to do it on a team that hasn't been able to keep quality coaches around or in the same place for very long. Let's face it, the Giants coaching is not at the envy of any in the NFL. Not only was Manning literally, thrown into the fire, but he has also had to do it in the toughest media market bar none, in front of a fan base that has grilled him, and alongside teammates (Shock & Plax) that seem to resent him.

 

Tiki was an all-world RB, but there is no question that Manning and the threats the Giants possess on Offense (Toomer, Shock, Plax, & YES Manning too) were behind a lot of Tiki's success. For all the numbers Tiki put up, Manning has been right there among the NFL leaders in just about every statistical category. Yes his INT's have been high, but that's the breaks when you run the type of vertical offense the Giants do. Any QB (see Jeff Garcia, Chad Pennington, and Ben Roethlisberger) can throw 5 and 7 yard outs, Manning throws A LOT down the field. I forgot where I saw it, but I recently read a statistic that only the Seahawks threw the ball more passed 20 yards than the Giants (I think it was on NFL Network).

 

Bottom line - I think Eli will only get better, but he hasn't really played that badly. Comparing the 3-headed QB monster of Manning-Rivers-Roethlisberger is difficult, but I've seen that a lot of the Roethlisberger backers have gone and been substituted with Pro-Rivers folks. It's been unfair to Eli. Why can't he just be seen as a bright young QB who has put up decent numbers and who only stands to get better?

 

Piz

[BIGBLUE01]

AND? Tiki set up most of the TD's for the Giants. That argument is so stupid... you guys are being homers. How many TDs did Brandon Jacobs have because Tiki got us down to the goalline? If you think Tiki hasn't carried the offense the last couple of years, you've been watching different games than I have. I don't have to argue this point. Rivers numbers speak for themselves. You're also wrong that Rivers was considered a long term project. Even San Diego wasn't sure if Brees would win the starting job that season. Nobody drafts a QB that early in the first round as a long term project. You do it a year or two if you can. Just like the Giants were going to do with Eli except Warner didn't perform. You guys cannot look at the situation from an unbiased position. I love the Giants, they are my team, but your blind allegiance to Eli is disgusting. Is LT better than Tiki, sure, but Tiki was still an All-Pro and the greatest running back in Giants history, and had his best seasons ever the last 2-3 years. LT is better, but Rivers is a great QB, and had we had him with Tiki... guess what? Tiki might still be here, and we more than likely would have had a better fortune in the playoffs than we had the last 2 years. Rivers is the better QB, and we fucked up by trading up. I still think Eli has a chance, but just about everyone outside of the Giants homer fans recognize that the Giants were wrong for making that trade. Even Rivers college numbers were better, and he won every bowl game he started as well. He even took NC State to a BCS if I remember correct and won that game, too. The ONLY 2 reasons Rivers wasn't more highly regarded is because of his slightly diagonal arm angle and that Eli had "Manning" on the back of his jersey. And time (although it already has) will tell that I'm right about this. Rivers is a fantastic QB, a pro bowl caliber QB already. I don't care if he's sat for 2 years or not. He still came in against NFL competition and lit it up when he had to.

 

I think this got misconstrued (sp?) somewhere along the way. Yes, Tiki did get us close enough for BJ to punch it in. And we appreciate that, but what happens when Tomlinson gets the Chargers down the field? Who punches it in?.....Tomlinson.

[nyg-fan-in-atl]

The rankings do not look too bad to me. I think Rivers is a little high and Romo is a little high as well. I would not rank A. Smith over Eli but I think Eli's ranking is reasonalbe.

 

As a diehard Giants fan for my entire 32 yr long life, I would like nothing more than Eli to develop into an elite QB. But my honest assesment of Eli is:

 

- much too inaccurate

- immoblie

- gets happy feet and never steps into a hit to make a play

- lacks confidence and leadership skills

 

It appears as though he has the physical tools to be a good QB but does not have 1/10 of the mental toughness of Phil Simms.

 

A few other comments in regards to previous posts:

 

- Whoever made the comment that there was an expectation that Rivers would need to sit for a while and would not be ready to play right away is wrong. Rivers started every game in his 4yr career at NCSU. He is very smart and was about as ready for the NFL as a QB can be when they come out of college. He sat soley because they had another elite QB in front of him.

- BIGBLUE01 - you are missing Allstarjim's point. He is not arguing that Tiki is better than LDT simply that the combination of Tiki and Jacobs is not that much worse than LDT. It is impossible to say how Rivers and Eli would have performed if they were on opposite teams. But I like what I see from Rivers now a lot more than Eli. He is certainly more accurate. And seems to be a better decision maker and has more poise despite being a starter for only a 1 yr.

 

Certainly ELI has the potential to be near the top of this list next year. I would not bet on it but I'll certianly wish for it.

[BIGBLUE01]

The rankings do not look too bad to me. I think Rivers is a little high and Romo is a little high as well. I would not rank A. Smith over Eli but I think Eli's ranking is reasonalbe.

 

As a diehard Giants fan for my entire 32 yr long life, I would like nothing more than Eli to develop into an elite QB. But my honest assesment of Eli is:

 

- much too inaccurate

- immoblie

- gets happy feet and never steps into a hit to make a play

- lacks confidence and leadership skills

 

It appears as though he has the physical tools to be a good QB but does not have 1/10 of the mental toughness of Phil Simms.

 

A few other comments in regards to previous posts:

 

- Whoever made the comment that there was an expectation that Rivers would need to sit for a while and would not be ready to play right away is wrong. Rivers started every game in his 4yr career at NCSU. He is very smart and was about as ready for the NFL as a QB can be when they come out of college. He sat soley because they had another elite QB in front of him.

- BIGBLUE01 - you are missing Allstarjim's point. He is not arguing that Tiki is better than LDT simply that the combination of Tiki and Jacobs is not that much worse than LDT. It is impossible to say how Rivers and Eli would have performed if they were on opposite teams. But I like what I see from Rivers now a lot more than Eli. He is certainly more accurate. And seems to be a better decision maker and has more poise despite being a starter for only a 1 yr.

 

Certainly ELI has the potential to be near the top of this list next year. I would not bet on it but I'll certianly wish for it.

 

nygfaninatl,

 

I may have missed his point, thanks for clearin that up.

[BIGBLUE01]

The rankings do not look too bad to me. I think Rivers is a little high and Romo is a little high as well. I would not rank A. Smith over Eli but I think Eli's ranking is reasonalbe.

 

As a diehard Giants fan for my entire 32 yr long life, I would like nothing more than Eli to develop into an elite QB. But my honest assesment of Eli is:

 

- much too inaccurate

- immoblie

- gets happy feet and never steps into a hit to make a play

- lacks confidence and leadership skills

 

It appears as though he has the physical tools to be a good QB but does not have 1/10 of the mental toughness of Phil Simms.

 

A few other comments in regards to previous posts:

 

- Whoever made the comment that there was an expectation that Rivers would need to sit for a while and would not be ready to play right away is wrong. Rivers started every game in his 4yr career at NCSU. He is very smart and was about as ready for the NFL as a QB can be when they come out of college. He sat soley because they had another elite QB in front of him.

- BIGBLUE01 - you are missing Allstarjim's point. He is not arguing that Tiki is better than LDT simply that the combination of Tiki and Jacobs is not that much worse than LDT. It is impossible to say how Rivers and Eli would have performed if they were on opposite teams. But I like what I see from Rivers now a lot more than Eli. He is certainly more accurate. And seems to be a better decision maker and has more poise despite being a starter for only a 1 yr.

 

Certainly ELI has the potential to be near the top of this list next year. I would not bet on it but I'll certianly wish for it.

 

Actually, I read the post again that I replied too, and he stated that LDT had 28 TD's to Tiki's 5, implying that LDT is much better. And I brought the point up that we have more weapons and that LDT is all SD has.

 

Sorry if thats more confusing, this is getting so outta whack, my heads startin to hurt! LOL

[rphguy]

The biggest problem that Eli and the Giants have is coaching.

if you're gonna throw a rookie QB in and play him for experience (as opposed to letting him watch and grow) then you should not have him throwing 30+ times per game immediately. You should use the running game primarily and allow the QB to pass some. What does this do? It gets the receivers open more because D is covering the rush primarily. this should result in better passing consistency, albeit less passing yardage and less completions, but so what? The goal is to win and grow your QB into the great passing threat.

 

We should have ran the ball 70% of the time the 1st 2 years. By year 3, then start running/passing 50/50.

 

Instead, Eli was thrown into a passing all the time gameplan which did not work. Stupid coaching and stupid gameplans.

 

You don't gain confidence by throwing the ball 40 times. You gain it by throwing less and being more successful on the fewer opportunities. You grow into throwing it 30+ times.

 

I really should be the next coach of the Giants.