Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 You obviously have missed the point of emphasis that a team that wins is built with depth that can play. Walker has proven he can be a backup player and play ok if need be. That is the difference between teams that win and lose in the NFL. Considering he didn't play in every game and Deloatch, who people seem to hate, started above him and a vetern CB they got off the streets midseason started above him, it's clear Walker is toast. Play okay? Did you see him against the Cowboys when he had 2 STUPID penalties on consecutive plays? The guy is a bum and a penalty machine. Cut Walker. He's a bum and will never do anything for the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Considering he didn't play in every game and Deloatch, who people seem to hate, started above him and a vetern CB they got off the streets midseason started above him, it's clear Walker is toast. Play okay? Did you see him against the Cowboys when he had 2 STUPID penalties on consecutive plays? The guy is a bum and a penalty machine. Cut Walker. He's a bum and will never do anything for the Giants. Easy there, cowboy. The costs next to nothing to tender, and it's quite clear he can be a useful player if he can show some semblance of a head on his shoulders. At the very least, he should make it to training camp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Easy there, cowboy. The costs next to nothing to tender, and it's quite clear he can be a useful player if he can show some semblance of a head on his shoulders. At the very least, he should make it to training camp... Might as well draft two corners then. If Walker couldn't learn this year, when will he ever? If I'm the Giants, I cut Walker and do whatever I can to draft Richard Marshall in the 2nd. I'm telling you, this kid will be a stud in the NFL. (sorry to plug the site in my sig, but theres 2 threads on him, one with video, one with scouting report. PM me and I'll show them to you). Webster and Marshall after a year together would be the best set of corners in the entire league. Bank on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Might as well draft two corners then. If Walker couldn't learn this year, when will he ever? If I'm the Giants, I cut Walker and do whatever I can to draft Richard Marshall in the 2nd. I'm telling you, this kid will be a stud in the NFL. (sorry to plug the site in my sig, but theres 2 threads on him, one with video, one with scouting report. PM me and I'll show them to you). Webster and Marshall after a year together would be the best set of corners in the entire league. Bank on it. Since the Giants recently replaced their secondary coach, I imagine that coaching may have been a problem in Frank's development. I'd prefer not to rely on rookie corners, especially one as raw as Marshall (who certainly has pretty good talent) who are likely TDs waiting to happen in '06. I imagine that the Giants will do whatever is necessary to solidify the CB position through free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Go_Eli, does your website have a personal message feature? There are a couple of posters there who I haven't spoken to in awhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Since the Giants recently replaced their secondary coach, I imagine that coaching may have been a problem in Frank's development. I'd prefer not to rely on rookie corners, especially one as raw as Marshall (who certainly has pretty good talent) who are likely TDs waiting to happen in '06. I imagine that the Giants will do whatever is necessary to solidify the CB position through free agency. I don't think Marshall would come in an make an immediate impact. He'll be like Webster this year: coming in on 3rd downs and if a guy gets hurt/plays poorly. I don't see Marshall starting right away, but I think he'll be like Webster; baby steps to starting. Walker, on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Go_Eli, does your website have a personal message feature? There are a couple of posters there who I haven't spoken to in awhile... We do. Registering now I see. Some pretty intense stuff eh Money? Edited February 17, 2006 by Go_Eli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax 4 Prez Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 was Big_Pete ever on the GMB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 was Big_Pete ever on the GMB? Yes, I know him from there. He sometimes gets on my nerves by incessantly regurgitating player profiles on message boards. He must spend a ton of time reading info on obscure prospects, posting that info on a message board, and then suggesting the Giants draft those prospects -- none of which Pete has ever actually seen play. He basically let's the profiles do the talking for him. I'd like to hear him offer his own insight once in awhile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Yes, I know him from there. He sometimes gets on my nerves by incessantly regurgitating player profiles on message boards. He must spend a ton of time reading info on obscure prospects, posting that info on a message board, and then suggesting the Giants draft those prospects -- none of which Pete has ever actually seen play. He basically let's the profiles do the talking for him. I'd like to hear him offer his own insight once in awhile.... I might agree, but Big_Pete has transformed the Giant section of nyg-fans.com from a place with zero activity to one of the better draft subforums on the net. You might say "obscure" prospects, but there is a method to his madness. Pete has posted a lot of linebackers, corners, safeties, recievers, and offensive tackles. And what do the Giants need? Linebackers, corners, safeties, recievers, and an offensive tackle. Big Pete, as you might know, is from Australia, and doesn't get a chance to watch the college game like we do. But just because I'm in the US doesn't mean I can watch college football. As a college kid, I go to my school's games (I-AA). Thus I usually can't watch a lot of college football just because I'm at another college games. I don't mind reading the profiles because it gives me a decent look at a prospect from someone who does watch them. Even if I was free on a Saturday, I'm not going to get every division 1 game and I can't keep up with every prospect. Kind of tough to offer your own insight when you're half a world away when people enjoy the other football more. But he does a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I might agree, but Big_Pete has transformed the Giant section of nyg-fans.com from a place with zero activity to one of the better draft subforums on the net. You might say "obscure" prospects, but there is a method to his madness. Pete has posted a lot of linebackers, corners, safeties, recievers, and offensive tackles. And what do the Giants need? Linebackers, corners, safeties, recievers, and an offensive tackle. Big Pete, as you might know, is from Australia, and doesn't get a chance to watch the college game like we do. But just because I'm in the US doesn't mean I can watch college football. As a college kid, I go to my school's games (I-AA). Thus I usually can't watch a lot of college football just because I'm at another college games. I don't mind reading the profiles because it gives me a decent look at a prospect from someone who does watch them. Even if I was free on a Saturday, I'm not going to get every division 1 game and I can't keep up with every prospect. Kind of tough to offer your own insight when you're half a world away when people enjoy the other football more. But he does a good job. He's been doing the same song and dance for years, and I'm just not impressed by it ... regardless of where he's from. It's one thing to read about a prospect you have never seen ... it's another to promote that prospect and identify him as a worthy draft pick. Kinda limits credibility... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nosebleed Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I have been a big supporter of Frankie Walker since his arrival, but he seems to be lacking something very important, brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockjock Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) I have been a big supporter of Frankie Walker since his arrival, but he seems to be lacking something very important, brains. exactly...from the neck down the guy could be a great corner...but there is nothing upstairs Edited February 17, 2006 by shockjock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 He's been doing the same song and dance for years, and I'm just not impressed by it ... regardless of where he's from. It's one thing to read about a prospect you have never seen ... it's another to promote that prospect and identify him as a worthy draft pick. Kinda limits credibility... How so? Do you want my opinion or a scout's opinion (Scott Wright for example)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 How so? Do you want my opinion or a scout's opinion (Scott Wright for example)? I prefer people to offer their own opinions. Otherwise discussions essentially become arguing with someone else's material... That being said, I do appreciate Pete's enthusiasm and dedication. He incites a lot of discussion, which is a good thing. I just with that he -- like so many others -- wre less inclined to regurgitate material from other website in order to inspire discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I prefer people to offer their own opinions. Otherwise discussions essentially become arguing with someone else's material... I disagree with you there, but let's agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Considering he didn't play in every game and Deloatch, who people seem to hate, started above him and a vetern CB they got off the streets midseason started above him, it's clear Walker is toast. Play okay? Did you see him against the Cowboys when he had 2 STUPID penalties on consecutive plays? The guy is a bum and a penalty machine. Cut Walker. He's a bum and will never do anything for the Giants. His tender cost would be cheap, he has shown some abilityat times(particularly as a rookie) and suprisingly he has made it through 2 Coughlin camps, something I would have never thought would happen. I like Delotach a lot and think when he polishes his skills he will be an asset as a larger CB, especially in red zone coverage. As far as Buckley went, I think that was a matter of Coughlin being a Parcells believer in that vets win you games in December and January and you are better off with guys that have been there. Remember late season signings in the past of guys like Dave Duerson, Everson Walls, Steve DeOssie, Johnnie Cooks, etc. Do not get me wrong, Walker is certainly not the next coming of Champ Bailey, but I believe in cotinuity and familarity. Certainly if Walker is getting anything more than spot playing time the Giants would be in a heap of shit, but when you factor in certain aspects(cost being one)he would not be an awful option to sit at the bottom of the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 His tender cost would be cheap, he has shown some abilityat times(particularly as a rookie) and suprisingly he has made it through 2 Coughlin camps, something I would have never thought would happen. I like Delotach a lot and think when he polishes his skills he will be an asset as a larger CB, especially in red zone coverage. As far as Buckley went, I think that was a matter of Coughlin being a Parcells believer in that vets win you games in December and January and you are better off with guys that have been there. Remember late season signings in the past of guys like Dave Duerson, Everson Walls, Steve DeOssie, Johnnie Cooks, etc. Do not get me wrong, Walker is certainly not the next coming of Champ Bailey, but I believe in cotinuity and familarity. Certainly if Walker is getting anything more than spot playing time the Giants would be in a heap of shit, but when you factor in certain aspects(cost being one)he would not be an awful option to sit at the bottom of the depth chart. As I said before, might as well draft a rookie who has brains and skill. It's pretty sad that Walker has the physical skill but cannot get out of Coughlin's doghouse. Anyone remember the Cowboy game? He was in early and had two big penalties that resulted in 2 Dallas first downs. The guy is a bum; plan and simple. Some think a new DB coach could have an impact on him: why not cut Walker and then just draft a guy? You gotta pray in both situation and I'd be a lot more confident with a rookie than I would be with Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 As I said before, might as well draft a rookie who has brains and skill. It's pretty sad that Walker has the physical skill but cannot get out of Coughlin's doghouse. Anyone remember the Cowboy game? He was in early and had two big penalties that resulted in 2 Dallas first downs. The guy is a bum; plan and simple. Some think a new DB coach could have an impact on him: why not cut Walker and then just draft a guy? You gotta pray in both situation and I'd be a lot more confident with a rookie than I would be with Walker. Since when is Walker in Coughlin's doghouse? He has never violated any rules or had a run-in with the coach. His not playing is Lewis's decision, not Coughlin's. Cutting Walker means the team has to draft a CB. We'd prefer to eliminate needs and select the best available talent, rather than deplete depth. And why not give him a chance under Guinta? Obviously Milius was not doing a good job ... don't you think it's possible that may have impaired Frank's development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 IMO continuity in terms of the depth chart is important. Frank Walker does have ability, and would it be the worst thing for the 4th or 5th CB on your roster to have talent(as many have said), know the system and terminolgy(year 3 now) and come at a relatively cheap cost? If the worst thing that one can say about their 4th or 5th CB is that he is not that smart, yet comes cheap, knows the system and has some talent then I will take him. Like I said, the next coming of Champ Bailey? No. A guy who could be a valuable asset to a roster? Sure why not. On a side note and take it for what its worth, I know a guy that met Walker one night out at a restaurant, this friend of mine said Frank was VERY nice, signed all their stuff, took pictures etc. His one impression of Frank was that he was not that sharp, a bit rough around the edges. Who knows, maybe he is a slow learner? I am in no way defending or bashing Walker merely stating that if you feel he has some talent then bringing him back at a cheap price to play the 4 or 5 CB is worth the gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 There is no harm keeping Walker on the roster considering how slim we are with depth there. Even if we do draft two guys, it is nice to have a guy like him who has played in games before and actually has made some big plays as a fourth or fifth CB. There is no reason to say why he is not on the roster before training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Since when is Walker in Coughlin's doghouse? He has never violated any rules or had a run-in with the coach. His not playing is Lewis's decision, not Coughlin's. Cutting Walker means the team has to draft a CB. We'd prefer to eliminate needs and select the best available talent, rather than deplete depth. And why not give him a chance under Guinta? Obviously Milius was not doing a good job ... don't you think it's possible that may have impaired Frank's development? Considering he didn't play much at all this year, I'd say he was in TC's doghouse. Again, the two penalties against Dallas. I don't think he played the rest of that entire game. TC won't put up with that junk. The Giants will probably have to draft a corner anyway. Last year, the started the season with five corners on the roster (Peterson, Allen, Webster, Walker, and Deloatch). I think the Giants would draft a corner anyway because of Peterson. I'm telling you...look at Richard Marshall out of Fresno St. Him and Webster could be the best corner duo in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 IMO continuity in terms of the depth chart is important. Frank Walker does have ability, and would it be the worst thing for the 4th or 5th CB on your roster to have talent(as many have said), know the system and terminolgy(year 3 now) and come at a relatively cheap cost? If the worst thing that one can say about their 4th or 5th CB is that he is not that smart, yet comes cheap, knows the system and has some talent then I will take him. Like I said, the next coming of Champ Bailey? No. A guy who could be a valuable asset to a roster? Sure why not. Any corner we draft high would have as much, and more, talent than Walker. Everyone talks about depth and Walker being the 4th corner. Would you really want Walker out there every game if Peterson went down again? If your depth is Frank "Penalty" Walker, you aren't in a good situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Any corner we draft high would have as much, and more, talent than Walker. Everyone talks about depth and Walker being the 4th corner. Would you really want Walker out there every game if Peterson went down again? If your depth is Frank "Penalty" Walker, you aren't in a good situation. Him or Deloatch. Take your pick. Peterson went down this year we still didn't need to use Walker much if at all. Especially if we sign and/or draft a CB (which should be our #1 priority) then he'd be even moved down further down the depth chart. He got bullshitted on one of those penalties against Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Him or Deloatch. Take your pick. Peterson went down this year we still didn't need to use Walker much if at all. Especially if we sign and/or draft a CB (which should be our #1 priority) then he'd be even moved down further down the depth chart. He got bullshitted on one of those penalties against Dallas. I'd take Deloatch. And that's not saying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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