Great Article by Mushnick Yesterday

[mickeef2]

And as a Giant fan, Bud, all of us pretty much glorify LT, while turning our heads at the fact that if he wasn't a football player, he'd probably be a bum. But LT was a demon on the field, and the Giants were successful so it's alright it seems.

 

This is off the topic. The whole point is about what these guys are doing on the field, which is embarrassing themselves and the organization. Did LT ever throw up his hands because a defensive back got burned, or a QB got out of a lineman's grasp? Did he ever do some embarrassing, obviously choreographed song and dance number after one of his billion great plays? Face it, Shockey can't be defended anymore. The guy's a friggin' mindless baby who at this point in his career seems to be in a two-steps-forward-one-step-back mode. He's trying to be better about it, but he still regresses way too often. Burress is just a total piece of shit. Bringing LT into this argument is an insult to a guy who handled himself very classily on the field, and, oh yeah, won a few big games in his career.

[boohyah]

This is off the topic. The whole point is about what these guys are doing on the field, which is embarrassing themselves and the organization. Did LT ever throw up his hands because a defensive back got burned, or a QB got out of a lineman's grasp? Did he ever do some embarrassing, obviously choreographed song and dance number after one of his billion great plays? Face it, Shockey can't be defended anymore. The guy's a friggin' mindless baby who at this point in his career seems to be in a two-steps-forward-one-step-back mode. He's trying to be better about it, but he still regresses way too often. Burress is just a total piece of shit. Bringing LT into this argument is an insult to a guy who handled himself very classily on the field, and, oh yeah, won a few big games in his career.

 

 

No keef, it's not off the point because most of the embarrassing stuff that happened this year was off the field. The talking in the dressing room, Strahan yelling at a female reporter, calling out Plaxico on the redio, Tiki questioning the coaches, Shockey questioning the coaches. There's way too much of this getting worked up about guys getting emotional on the field, throwing up there hands, for christ sake, it would be hard to blame them for some of the awful passing Eli did this year. You can blast Shockey and Burress all you want, when they get open, he's often not even looking at them or overthrowing the ball. Those are the guys that have to run down the field on every play regardless of whether the play is drawn for them or not. Eli knows he's involved in every play. You'd be frustrated also if this was happening you.

 

As for LT, he didn't scream at QB's that he was coming for them. He didn't do little celebrations after he made a sack. Hell he was even caught on tape threatnening the other team's players. He was a terrible guy in practice and many times was abusive and said as much that he didn't give a fuck about authority, and that's not me, he wrote it in his book. And your last line kinda proves my point, if Shockey and Burress and co were playing in the superbowl in a few weeks, all this hand waving and yelling would be "Ah they just care a whole lot about winning".

[mickeef2]

You'd be frustrated also if this was happening you.

 

Yup, I sure would be. And I'd be a complete douchebag if I expressed it on the field. Plenty of guys in the 70s and 80s were frustrated playing with bad QBs. The throwing up the hands thing, though, is a 90s and beyond phenomenon, and I don't care how many guys do it. There are plenty who don't, and that's because they have a little class and maturity.

 

 

And your last line kinda proves my point, if Shockey and Burress and co were playing in the superbowl in a few weeks, all this hand waving and yelling would be "Ah they just care a whole lot about winning".

 

Not from me it wouldn't, buddy. And I can pull that card because I've been as vocal a critic of Jeremy Shockey as any Giant fan, since day one of his career, as many on this board can attest. Besides, this is irrelevent because the fact is they're not playing in a Super Bowl.

[boohyah]

Yup, I sure would be. And I'd be a complete douchebag if I expressed it on the field. Plenty of guys in the 70s and 80s were frustrated playing with bad QBs. The throwing up the hands thing, though, is a 90s and beyond phenomenon, and I don't care how many guys do it. There are plenty who don't, and that's because they have a little class and maturity.

Not from me it wouldn't, buddy. And I can pull that card because I've been as vocal a critic of Jeremy Shockey as any Giant fan, since day one of his career, as many on this board can attest. Besides, this is irrelevent because the fact is they're not playing in a Super Bowl.

 

 

I said "if', not they are. You know and I know that if this team is still in the playoffs that this isn't as much of a concern.

 

And you're kidding yourself if you think that all this started in the 90's. Gastineau's sack dance, The Redskins TD celebration, spiking the ball and dancing in the endzone all came about in the 70's and 80's. Guys like Conrad Dobler, what era did they play in.?And what was all the hype over teams such as the big bad raiders with guys like Lyle Alzado etc. yeah, maybe they weren't throwing up their arms, but they weren't dancing in tutu's either.

[Nesta]

Bud, I know what the article says. But what are the Giants supposed to do here. The personalities of the players coming into the league these days are pretty shitty overall, and if the Giants were to ignore the bad personas in the league, they wouldn't be able to field a team.

 

And as a Giant fan, Bud, all of us pretty much glorify LT, while turning our heads at the fact that if he wasn't a football player, he'd probably be a bum. But LT was a demon on the field, and the Giants were successful so it's alright it seems.

 

Who cares about what they are before they get here? You change them with discipline, and if they refuse you cut 'em loose.

 

LT's problems were mostly off the field. I don't care what they do off the field as long as it's not Ray Caruth type shit, and it doesn't involve the media.

[mickeef2]

I said "if', not they are. You know and I know that if this team is still in the playoffs that this isn't as much of a concern.

 

And you're kidding yourself if you think that all this started in the 90's. Gastineau's sack dance, The Redskins TD celebration, spiking the ball and dancing in the endzone all came about in the 70's and 80's. Guys like Conrad Dobler, what era did they play in.?And what was all the hype over teams such as the big bad raiders with guys like Lyle Alzado etc. yeah, maybe they weren't throwing up their arms, but they weren't dancing in tutu's either.

 

I'll keep playing along, I guess.

 

The Raiders and Conrad Dobler have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. What does dirty play have to do with showing up your teammates? Re-read my post, carefully. I said "this throwing up the hands thing is a 90s phenomenon". You even admit yourself that those guys didn't throw their hands in the air when a teammate made a mistake, so something tells me you're comprehending this a little more than you're letting on.

[boohyah]

I'll keep playing along, I guess.

 

The Raiders and Conrad Dobler have absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. What does dirty play have to do with showing up your teammates? Re-read my post, carefully. I said "this throwing up the hands thing is a 90s phenomenon". You even admit yourself that those guys didn't throw their hands in the air when a teammate made a mistake, so something tells me you're comprehending this a little more than you're letting on.

 

 

I admit I said "maybe", which means they might have but back then like now, I think very little about guys throwing up there hands. Unfortunately I didn't watch every game they played back then!

 

If you don't want to play along guy, don't!. You're the guy quoting articles about guys making the Giants look bad. Being undiscliplined is being undiscliplined, be it endzone dances or throwing up arms etc. It's not a 90's phenominom, guys in the NFL have been behaving this way for years.

 

Anyway why do you care at this point, didn't you say a few weeks ago you had given up on the team?

[mickeef2]

I admit I said "maybe", which means they might have but back then like now, I think very little about guys throwing up there hands. Unfortunately I didn't watch every game they played back then!

 

If you don't want to play along guy, don't!. You're the guy quoting articles about guys making the Giants look bad. Being undiscliplined is being undiscliplined, be it endzone dances or throwing up arms etc. It's not a 90's phenominom, guys in the NFL have been behaving this way for years.

 

Anyway why do you care at this point, didn't you say a few weeks ago you had given up on the team?

 

Yup, I gave up on this team accomplishing anything of note this year after the Titans game. Pretty good foresight on my part, I'd say. Don't remember saying anything about giving up on them forever, though. I care because I'm a fan who wants to see a team worthy of my support on the field. Apparently, though, this team is fine just the way it is. Maybe we should make a run at Randy Moss this offseason so we can bookend him with Plax. With that much WWF-style attitude, we couldn't lose.

 

By the way, coincidentally, I haven't seen every NFL game ever played, either. I just use common sense when thinking about the ones I have, though, and I can assure you that guys didn't show their disgust with teammates on the field 20 years ago the way they do now. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. As for the article, I guess Mushnick and everybody in this thread is wrong. Booyah's right. Here's to more "ballin'" and obvious gestures of disgust from our '07 Giants!

 

P.S.- As the Giants took a 38-14 lead in San Fran in the '02 playoffs, I was just as livid with Jeremy Shockey's behavior as I've ever been, before or since. So much for the silly "if they were still alive in the playoffs nobody would care about any of this" argument.

[boohyah]

Yup, I gave up on this team accomplishing anything of note this year after the Titans game. Pretty good foresight on my part, I'd say. Don't remember saying anything about giving up on them forever, though. I care because I'm a fan who wants to see a team worthy of my support on the field. Apparently, though, this team is fine just the way it is. Maybe we should make a run at Randy Moss this offseason so we can bookend him with Plax. With that much WWF-style attitude, we couldn't lose.

 

By the way, coincidentally, I haven't seen every NFL game ever played, either. I just use common sense when thinking about the ones I have, though, and I can assure you that guys didn't show their disgust with teammates on the field 20 years ago the way they do now. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. As for the article, I guess Mushnick and everybody in this thread is wrong. Booyah's right. Here's to more "ballin'" and obvious gestures of disgust from our '07 Giants!

 

P.S.- As the Giants took a 38-14 lead in San Fran in the '02 playoffs, I was just as livid with Jeremy Shockey's behavior as I've ever been, before or since. So much for the silly "if they were still alive in the playoffs nobody would care about any of this" argument.

 

 

I wouldn't want Randy Moss now anyway, but if you think the Giants FO never thought about getting him somehow, then you're being a little naive.

 

I don't what sport to watch today where you can see a team behave immaculately, it doesnt' happen in baseball/basketball/ soccer or Hockey. There's as much whining and complaining by players back in the 70's and 80's as there ever was. if that's the only reason that you get offended by a team, you need to watch horse racing or figure skating. I worry about performance. The Giants have much bigger issues to deal with then "lack of dignified behaviour", we have no defensive co-ordinator, our QB isn't developing like he should. These are the things that will effect us next year, not Shockey or Plax getting upset at Eli. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

 

The "silly" comment "if they were still alive in the playoffs nobody would care about any of this". well it's funny, you said earlier that LT won us a few games, so you'd be willing to forget any shit LT pulled on the field, because he was successful huh?.

 

If you are going to be upset at Shockey during the playoff game, it should be that he dropped a pass in the endzone. If you want to be upset at anybody, maybe have our 2 safeties behave like lunatics giving away penalties late in the game would be a better example.

 

 

As for the article, I guess Mushnick and everybody in this thread is wrong. Booyah's right. Here's to more "ballin'" and obvious gestures of disgust from our '07 Giants!

 

Quit making it personal will ya?. First off, I stopped taking Phil Mushnick serious the day he wrote the article on ticket touts and then on the very next page are a shit load of ads for ticket agencies he was criticizing. He'd never take his own paper to task for advertising sex ads in the middle of the sports section, would he?. No, his credibilty in criticizing others comes into question the minute you turn the page (of that shitty rag the Post is anyway). And no Mickeef, that's not just Boohyah's opinion, this has been said about him before. Also, I'm not the only one to disagree with the topic if you look at the responses here. If the Giants go "ballin" next year and they perform to the expectations they're supposed to, I'll deal with. I've never looked at the Giants game on a Sunday and said to myself, boy those guys are sure not a very good example to anybody. I could care less.

[mickeef2]

if that's the only reason that you get offended by a team, you need to watch horse racing or figure skating.

 

That's what I said: That's the only reason I "get offended by a team" (whatever that means). Yeah, I guess I need to get with the times and start accepting selfish behavior.

 

our QB isn't developing like he should. These are the things that will effect us next year, not Shockey or Plax getting upset at Eli. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

 

:lol: Our QB isn't developing, but don't worry about the receivers showing him up on the field.

 

The "silly" comment "if they were still alive in the playoffs nobody would care about any of this". well it's funny, you said earlier that LT won us a few games, so you'd be willing to forget any shit LT pulled on the field, because he was successful huh?.

 

Keep coming with the "if" arguments. They're very relevent. Like all your other "if" examples, LT didn't have behavioral issues on the field, so what's the point?

 

If you are going to be upset at Shockey during the playoff game, it should be that he dropped a pass in the endzone.

 

Um, didn't that happen when it was 38-14, like I said?

 

Quit making it personal will ya?. First off, I stopped taking Phil Mushnick serious the day he wrote the article on ticket touts and then on the very next page are a shit load of ads for ticket agencies he was criticizing. He'd never take his own paper to task for advertising sex ads in the middle of the sports section, would he?. No, his credibilty in criticizing others comes into question the minute you turn the page (of that shitty rag the Post is anyway). And no Mickeef, that's not just Boohyah's opinion, this has been said about him before. Also, I'm not the only one to disagree with the topic if you look at the responses here. If the Giants go "ballin" next year and they perform to the expectations they're supposed to, I'll deal with. I've never looked at the Giants game on a Sunday and said to myself, boy those guys are sure not a very good example to anybody. I could care less.

 

Nothing personal about it. You're not much different than most sports fans. You probably loved Shockey's "fire" :lol: when he came up, probably bought his jersey, and now don't wanna admit you were wrong (there's obviously an issue there) about him. No big deal. But as time goes on, you'll find less and less fans agreeing with you. Obviously, this season, that trend has picked up major steam.

 

As for Mushnick and the Post, you seem to know an awful lot about that shitty rag and it's writer. The Post has a great sports section. No shame in saying that. You obviously read it.

[boohyah]

That's what I said: That's the only reason I "get offended by a team" (whatever that means). Yeah, I guess I need to get with the times and start accepting selfish behavior.

:lol: Our QB isn't developing, but don't worry about the receivers showing him up on the field.

Keep coming with the "if" arguments. They're very relevent. Like all your other "if" examples, LT didn't have behavioral issues on the field, so what's the point?

Um, didn't that happen when it was 38-14, like I said?

Nothing personal about it. You're not much different than most sports fans. You probably loved Shockey's "fire" :lol: when he came up, probably bought his jersey, and now don't wanna admit you were wrong (there's obviously an issue there) about him. No big deal. But as time goes on, you'll find less and less fans agreeing with you. Obviously, this season, that trend has picked up major steam.

 

As for Mushnick and the Post, you seem to know an awful lot about that shitty rag and it's writer. The Post has a great sports section. No shame in saying that. You obviously read it.

 

 

1) No, you don't have to get with the times. You have choices in what you choose to watch and if this behaviour bothers you, don't watch it. A couple of weeks ago, you said you didn't want to watch this team anymore, that you didn't want to follow guys like the players we have. Fair enough, you made your point weeks ago, so why do you need to quote Mushnick to back you up?

 

2) Our QB isn't developing they way he was expected and it simply has nothing to do with guys showing him up. Please show me how this is the case. Fact is, Shockey and Burress have made catches on passes that he has made that were not accurate, if they hadn't. Eli would be looking a whole lot worse than he has so far. Eli is paid a lot of money by the team and is treated with kid gloves by the entire org (do you think it's fair to scream at Kiwi, who's a rookie, but forever let Eli walk past you to pick up his cap like he could care less??), it's time he started to get better.

 

3) You keep thinking LT was a saint, fact is even though he was a great player he was a prick at times and has admitted it, on and off the field. But they were successful when he played so that's okay. By the way, "if" Eli was more accurate with his passing, those arms wouldn't have a reason to flail...there's a thought!

 

3) I assumed your shame with Shockey had to do with the ice incident and not dropping the TD. Please forgive me.

 

4) I didn't buy Shockey's jersey, it was bought for me for Christmas by my brother and no I didn't ask for it. I also have an Eli jersey, because even though I may criticize him here, i hope one day I'll be wrong about him and I do support the guy. I also have an Osi jersey and one for Toomer. I'm sorry,I'll get rid of them, I wouldn't want to be a typical Sports fan, although I'm still trying to figure out what has gone wrong with Shockey I'm also seeing more people on this board and other Giant fans I know seem to think that Shockey has done well this season, so I don't know what games you're looking at. Are you still holding a grudge from 4 years ago??

 

5) Believe me or not, I don't read the post, I wouldn't wipe my ass with that paper, there'd be more shit left after it. Like I said I used to read it years ago, but I've never considered Mushnick a credible source because that fact is his own paper basically supports the types of things he criticizes, yet he won't take his own paper to task. I do know they give the Post out for free down at Union Sq where I work, I still wouldn't read it.

[mickeef2]

lol Let me ask you this: Do you think there's any correlation between a guy's ability to control his emotions and his performance at key moments in a game? Do you think a guy who can't control his emotions is more likely to lose focus when he has to be most focused?

[mickeef2]

One more question: Where does TO fit into all of this as far as you're concerned? Is he just a fiery competitor who wants to win so badly that it's okay for him to throw temper tantrums directed at his teammates on the sideline? Remember now, you can't have it both ways. Remember, also, that throwing your hands up in the air because your quarterback didn't get the ball to you is a just another form of temper tantrum.

[420]

I didn't read the whole thread so sue me if someone said this.

 

There's a billboard down the road from my house that says:

 

"I had a crazy touchdown dance. It was called hand the ball to the ref."

 

~Mark Bavaro

 

It is my opinion that class is important. Sometimes more important than winning.

 

 

Oh, and I enjoy Mushnick's column.

[NeMesiS]

I didn't read the whole thread so sue me if someone said this.

 

There's a billboard down the road from my house that says:

 

"I had a crazy touchdown dance. It was called hand the ball to the ref."

 

~Mark Bavaro

 

It is my opinion that class is important. Sometimes more important than winning.

Oh, and I enjoy Mushnick's column.

Ok...

 

 

I guess you didn't read the thread then?

[fringe]

When I was reading the post, Mushnick was the Sports TV critic.

[boohyah]

I didn't read the whole thread so sue me if someone said this.

 

There's a billboard down the road from my house that says:

 

"I had a crazy touchdown dance. It was called hand the ball to the ref."

 

~Mark Bavaro

 

It is my opinion that class is important. Sometimes more important than winning.

Oh, and I enjoy Mushnick's column.

 

 

Is that right?. Well if we have a 4-12 season next year, as long as the players have their prayerbooks everything is cool.

 

I'm glad you enjoy Mushnick's column, some people must if he's still doing it. I haven't read it in a long time.

[boohyah]

When I was reading the post, Mushnick was the Sports TV critic.

 

 

I went to Starbucks this afternoon, I didn't however go to Walmart.

[boohyah]

One more question: Where does TO fit into all of this as far as you're concerned? Is he just a fiery competitor who wants to win so badly that it's okay for him to throw temper tantrums directed at his teammates on the sideline? Remember now, you can't have it both ways. Remember, also, that throwing your hands up in the air because your quarterback didn't get the ball to you is a just another form of temper tantrum.

 

Let me clarify my stance on this for you:

 

I don't think guys should throw their hands in the air, it's bold to do, and mean to the quarterback.

 

Is it the main thing that caused us to lose this year, will it cause us to lose next year, no. It's bottom of the list, even you know this.

 

As for TO, he's a dick, he's a dick to his teamates, but what he did to his teamates last year off the field far outdoes anything he did on the field. In fact, like him or not, he performs out there, angry or not. There's plenty of interest around the league for Owens when he's available.

[boohyah]

Tom Brady just yelled at Troy Brown for not running an out. I hope Troy's feelings are okay!

[Nesta]

Let me clarify my stance on this for you:

 

I don't think guys should throw their hands in the air, it's bold to do, and mean to the quarterback.

 

Is it the main thing that caused us to lose this year, will it cause us to lose next year, no. It's bottom of the list, even you know this.

 

As for TO, he's a dick, he's a dick to his teamates, but what he did to his teamates last year off the field far outdoes anything he did on the field. In fact, like him or not, he performs out there, angry or not. There's plenty of interest around the league for Owens when he's available.

 

LOL, I wouldn't call 3 or 4 teams vying for arguably the best receiver in the game today 'plenty' of interest. It's obvious he hurts his own stock with his antics.

 

Are you trying to make the case that this is a witchhunt and our guys actually have class and discipline, or are you just trying to say that you don't care that they lack class and discipline?

 

Honestly, I'd be happier with 4-12 showing discipline and class. There's no shame in losing when you do it with dignity.

We were just 4 games from that record this year and were extremely lucky to make the playoffs. Are you gonna brag to anybody about us making the playoffs at 8-8? I doubt it.

[mickeef2]

Let me ask you this: Do you think there's any correlation between a guy's ability to control his emotions and his performance at key moments in a game? Do you think a guy who can't control his emotions is more likely to lose focus when he has to be most focused?

 

You didn't answer this question, booyah.

 

As for TO, I don't know if you watched much football this year, or maybe you're willing to make a ridiculous statement in lieu of admitting you're wrong, but for all the money he makes, and all the trouble he causes, he didn't perform out there this year. Ask his teammates about all the dropped passes- big dropped passes, in crucial situations. Maybe he'd be a great fit for team booyah, where anarchy reigns, but there won't be many, if any, NFL teams inquiring about him.

 

As for the Brady/Brown example: See what happens to Troy Brown if he throws his hands up in the air after Brady misses him. If you don't understand the difference between the two situations, then this argument really doesn't need to go any further. Please answer the question about undisciplined players in big spots, though. I wanna see what goofy logic you come up with for that one.

[lemmiwinks]

Are you people on crack?

 

"Players didn't dance in the 80's" Yes they did! Just keep acting like you have never seen the whole team "dancing" after a TD. They all so high stepped all the way down the field...they all so spiked the ball in other players faces.

 

Here are just 2 examples for you

 

Billy "white shoes" Johnson

Super bowl shuffle

 

Yeah Giants Teams didn't celabrate...I want you to keep thinking that as you see players sneak up behind there coach with Gatorade bucket...Yeah thats right, the Giants invented the ultimate celebration

 

And get off of Shockeys dick...He is the best player on the team and he his a record setting TE....Second fastes TE to 300 catches. Faster then TG...faster then Todd Heap...faster then Gates...Stop your bitching

[boohyah]

LOL, I wouldn't call 3 or 4 teams vying for arguably the best receiver in the game today 'plenty' of interest. It's obvious he hurts his own stock with his antics.

 

Are you trying to make the case that this is a witchhunt and our guys actually have class and discipline, or are you just trying to say that you don't care that they lack class and discipline?

 

Honestly, I'd be happier with 4-12 showing discipline and class. There's no shame in losing when you do it with dignity.

We were just 4 games from that record this year and were extremely lucky to make the playoffs. Are you gonna brag to anybody about us making the playoffs at 8-8? I doubt it.

 

 

Did you take into account Budrock that many teams may not have needed TO, or didn't have the cap room to afford him when you said that. Why would for example, the Colts need TO?

 

It would be nice Bud, if after the players screwed up on the field, that the players walked to the sidelines and gave each other big hugs, but it doesn't work that way. Winning games would cancel out a lot of bad feelings towards the team. I mean a few years ago, Ray Lewis went from being a thug to Superbowl MVP and truth is a lot of the baggage that he carried went after that. I'm not saying that's the right thing, I'm saying that seems to be how things are.

 

The players in the NFL today come into the league generally with little class, but it's in high school and college that these guys should be learning how to behave. It's harder to teach guys to behave when they are 22-23 years of age and the contract is already signed.

 

This is my point, if the Giants were 4-12 because they were only good enough to be 4-12, I'd be fine with it. If you read any posts I've made before, it's clear I'm not bragging about an 8-8 season, but the reasons for this is not down to throwing arms in the air.

[boohyah]

Let me ask you this: Do you think there's any correlation between a guy's ability to control his emotions and his performance at key moments in a game? Do you think a guy who can't control his emotions is more likely to lose focus when he has to be most focused?

 

You didn't answer this question, booyah.

 

As for TO, I don't know if you watched much football this year, or maybe you're willing to make a ridiculous statement in lieu of admitting you're wrong, but for all the money he makes, and all the trouble he causes, he didn't perform out there this year. Ask his teammates about all the dropped passes- big dropped passes, in crucial situations. Maybe he'd be a great fit for team booyah, where anarchy reigns, but there won't be many, if any, NFL teams inquiring about him.

 

As for the Brady/Brown example: See what happens to Troy Brown if he throws his hands up in the air after Brady misses him. If you don't understand the difference between the two situations, then this argument really doesn't need to go any further. Please answer the question about undisciplined players in big spots, though. I wanna see what goofy logic you come up with for that one.

 

You're a funny guy Mickeef. You're here bitching about the Giants antics on the field, but there you go with the insults. So much for respecting other people huh?

 

As for your question, I don't think there's a direct correlation between a guys ability to control his emotions and his performance at key moments. That's my feeling on it. I mean, what's the one thing that everybody claims about Eli is how calm he seems to be at all times, yet his performances are so up and down and often they are down in key situations. Case in point the Titans game you claimed was your last game, Eli forces up a pass that he had no business to, and it had nothing to do with emotions, it was a shitty throw.

 

Personally when I've played sports myself I've gotten into shouting matches with teamates, sometimes it gets you riled up that you concentrate better, sometimes it doesn't, you may have a hard times believing that, but it's happened me before. Playing handball one time, I'm losing to a guy I should be beating and I lost my head and reeled off 8 points and won the game, another time while playing a soccer championship in high school, our goalie got kicked in the ribs by an opponent and I lose it and pushed the guy and then picked up the ball, only to get called for a penalty because the ref hadn't blown the whistle, they socred and we lost by that goal. So sure in hindsight that was a bad move, but the other situation worked.

 

Getting back to Eli. I would have absolutely no issue if Eli yelled at his teamates more often, because he doesn't make all the mistakes, and he needs to be more of a leader. I mean look at Peyton, does anyone on the Colts doubt he's the leader, remember a few years back when Reggie Wayne started yelling at him during a game and Peyton told him in no uncertain terms to shut to fuck up. Leaving no doubt who's in charge and he was dead right.

 

As for TO, you clearly don't like TO because he's a jerk. Fair enough, but the point about him not doing it on the field, well don't let all the incidents cloud the fact he still does the job. He had a lot of drops this year, he also played with a damaged finger that he just had surgery on. This was his worst year, but overall the guy can play. And there's always going to be teams out there that think that he can play for them and he'll be no problem. It might be foolish on their part, but they think that. And no he wouldn't play on team boohyah, but that's because I have my own philosophy on who I'd like to have on my team. I've always loved the way the 86/90 Giants played, I still beleive that style of football wins today.

 

By the way, Troy Brown didn't throw up his hands, Brady gestured to him.