Giants Reported To Be In Serious Discussions With Sam Madison

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

Greg Jennings, Hank Baskett, Rocky Micontosh, Terna Nande, Babatunde Oshinowo, John McCargo, Jesse Mahalona, Jonathan Joseph, Dwayne Slay........

shall i keep going?

 

haha sure why the fuck not?

[Goliath]

Not should, I'm saying who would be available in the 3rd that would make an impact on this team. This is nothing more than in inquiry.

Surprises come in all packages but no one really expects a 3rd rounder to make an immediate impact. Like in the third round, I have the Giants drafting Roger McIntosh or AJ Nicholson, I don't expect them to make an impact once they step foot on the field. They need work.

[shockjock]

haha sure why the fuck not?

 

fuck...your not supposed to say yes!

 

 

Jerious Norwood,Dusty Dvorcek,Pat Watkins,Jon Alston,Jeremy Trueblood,Jonathan Orr,Jeff Webb,Wali Lundy

Mike Bell,Demario Minter.....

 

*stricken with severe hand cramp*

[Goliath]

We're all hoping we get a Nathan Vasher or a Tom Brady in the late rounds but that's not the reality of it. Beyond the first and second round, you're looking at BPA, above average players, ST and projects.

[Goliath]

fuck...your not supposed to say yes!

Jerious Norwood,Dusty Dvorcek,Pat Watkins,Jon Alston,Jeremy Trueblood,Jonathan Orr,Jeff Webb,Wali Lundy

Mike Bell,Demario Minter.....

 

*stricken with severe hand cramp*

From that list, I really like Norwood, Dvorcek and Mike Bell.

[shockjock]

From that list, I really like Norwood, Dvorcek and Mike Bell.

 

Alston is intruiguing as well if we don't get a LB in the first two rounds...great athlete....

[Go_Eli]

BTW, I don't know if Slay will even get drafted. He's so unbelieveably slow.

[BigPete]

Sam Madison is a definate upgrade for us. He can still play quite well, has quality experience to pass on to our youngsters. At 32, he is only a short term solution, but we have talented youngsters in place and wil llikely add at least one more in the draft.

 

Sam Madison has been to 5 probowls, he is a quality player

 

How many probowls have our combined DBs been to in the last say 10 seasons?

 

(assuming Will Allen doesn't resign, and Will Peterson isn't good to go and we don't sign any more veterans)

 

If we sign Sam Madison and draft something like

 

2nd round: Jason Allen, Tennessee, 6-0 7/8, 209, 4.39

 

3rd round: Marcus Maxey, Miami (FL), 6-1 1/2, 198, 4.45

 

5th round: David Pittman, Northwestern St., 5-11 1/4, 182, 4.44

 

our secondary would be

 

CB

 

Sam Madison

Corey Webster

Marcus Maxey*

Curtis Deloatch

David Pittman*

Frank Walker

 

S

 

Gibril Wilson

Jason Allen*

James Butler

 

Thats a pretty solid group, and it sets up the Giants for the future.

[gateb]

Three corners in five rounds? That's a lot.

[Pizan]

Three corners in five rounds? That's a lot.

 

 

Jason Allen would be playing Safety, thats why his name is listed under the bold 'S' in Petes post.

[gateb]

Either way, 3 secondary guys in the first five rounds is IMO a little too much unless we make some major unexpected splashes in the off-season and we are just selecting the BPA.

[Pizan]

Either way, 3 secondary guys in the first five rounds is IMO a little too much unless we make some major unexpected splashes in the off-season and we are just selecting the BPA.

 

 

I agree, I think we could do with out that 5th round corner.

[Money]

Jason Allen would be playing Safety, thats why his name is listed under the bold 'S' in Petes post.

 

Pizan - 1

 

gateb - 0

[Frank_Grimes]

Pizan - 1

 

gateb - 0

 

I have a feeling the score is much more lopsided

[gmenroc]

Draft players, not positions...

 

Also, the Giants do not have the cap flexibility to get 3 of the free agents you listed ... they'd be lucky to get two...

 

I realize that you draft players, but you have to address needs as well. And I'm assuming the CBA is signed and we gain roughly 10 mil in cap space. If that happens, I don't see why we couldn't sign 3 FA.

[icavesai69]

You know i dont see Ernie Simms falling all the way down to us. If he is still available after 20 the Bucs will pick him up. I would love to see Cromartie and/or Simms in blue but i doubt it.

[Money]

I realize that you draft players, but you have to address needs as well. And I'm assuming the CBA is signed and we gain roughly 10 mil in cap space. If that happens, I don't see why we couldn't sign 3 FA.

 

The point of free agency is to address needs. The purpose of the draft is to add talent. If you enter draft saying "I'll take a CB in the 1st, an OT in the 2nd, a WR in the 3rd" then you are setting yourself up to fail and take less qualified players ahead of more qualified players.

 

You're forgetting that is the CBA is signed and the salary cap rises, then competition for players intensifies and their prices rise as a result ... thus, we aren't signing 3 marquee starters on defense this offseason.

[gmenroc]

The point of free agency is to address needs. The purpose of the draft is to add talent. If you enter draft saying "I'll take a CB in the 1st, an OT in the 2nd, a WR in the 3rd" then you are setting yourself up to fail and take less qualified players ahead of more qualified players.

 

You're forgetting that is the CBA is signed and the salary cap rises, then competition for players intensifies and their prices rise as a result ... thus, we aren't signing 3 marquee starters on defense this offseason.

 

I'm not saying that it's going to be like last year's spending spree, but I just don't see any reason why we can't sign 3 FAs. And when it comes to drafting, if you have 3 solid QBs, you're not drafting a QB in the first round, regardless of who's there. If you have those 3 solid QBs and one of the top rated QBs is available when it's your turn to draft, you trade down to a team that needs that QB, but not so far down that you avoid getting who you want.

 

Case in point - we needed help in the secondary last year and we drafted Cory Webster. The year we drafted Eli, we had Collins, but apparently had had enough with his inconsistency. Not to mention, it's like EA said, sometimes there are players you just cannot pass up when given the opportunity to draft them. These players are obviously rare. But I have to absolutely disagree with you that when it comes to draft day, there's an expectation that the selections you make will fill a need, even if that need is nothing more than depth at a given position. And if you're already set at that position, than you're drafting in another position.

 

Just my take.

[Money]

I'm not saying that it's going to be like last year's spending spree, but I just don't see any reason why we can't sign 3 FAs. And when it comes to drafting, if you have 3 solid QBs, you're not drafting a QB in the first round, regardless of who's there. If you have those 3 solid QBs and one of the top rated QBs is available when it's your turn to draft, you trade down to a team that needs that QB, but not so far down that you avoid getting who you want.

 

Case in point - we needed help in the secondary last year and we drafted Cory Webster. The year we drafted Eli, we had Collins, but apparently had had enough with his inconsistency. Not to mention, it's like EA said, sometimes there are players you just cannot pass up when given the opportunity to draft them. These players are obviously rare. But I have to absolutely disagree with you that when it comes to draft day, there's an expectation that the selections you make will fill a need, even if that need is nothing more than depth at a given position. And if you're already set at that position, than you're drafting in another position.

 

Just my take.

 

There is a difference between signing "3 FAs" and signing 3 of the FAs that you suggested in a previous post. Arrington and Madison, for example ... that is possible. Arrington, Madison, and Hope? No way, especially when the Giants have to bring back some of their own UFAs, sign some lesser role players, and save money for signing their draft picks.

 

Webster and Eli reinforcement my point that teams are wrong to a.) draft out of need, and b.) enter the draft with a laundry list (i.e. QB in the 1st, RB in the 2nd, WR in the 3rd, etc.). The Giants did not need a QB the year the traded for Eli, as they already had Kerry Collins. The move to get Eli was a classic example of getting the (perceived) best player available. In Webster's case, remember all that rhetoric from Accorsi and Reese last year? "We never thought he'd be available, too good to pass up, blah blah blah." They took the best player available instead of letting need dictate the pick.

 

You cannot use need to make draft picks? It's irresponsible. Rookies are two things: unproven commodities and likely unable to start early on. And you are going to address a need by inserting a rookie? Get a veteran instead, someone who is a proven commodity at the pro level. Use draft picks to augment the talent level of your team. Here's an article on the logic behind drafting the best player available (with a few exceptions, i.e. QB) instead of entering the draft with a laundry list.

[gmenroc]

There is a difference between signing "3 FAs" and signing 3 of the FAs that you suggested in a previous post. Arrington and Madison, for example ... that is possible. Arrington, Madison, and Hope? No way, especially when the Giants have to bring back some of their own UFAs, sign some lesser role players, and save money for signing their draft picks.

 

Webster and Eli reinforcement my point that teams are wrong to a.) draft out of need, and b.) enter the draft with a laundry list (i.e. QB in the 1st, RB in the 2nd, WR in the 3rd, etc.). The Giants did not need a QB the year the traded for Eli, as they already had Kerry Collins. The move to get Eli was a classic example of getting the (perceived) best player available. In Webster's case, remember all that rhetoric from Accorsi and Reese last year? "We never thought he'd be available, too good to pass up, blah blah blah." They took the best player available instead of letting need dictate the pick.

 

You cannot use need to make draft picks? It's irresponsible. Rookies are two things: unproven commodities and likely unable to start early on. And you are going to address a need by inserting a rookie? Get a veteran instead, someone who is a proven commodity at the pro level. Use draft picks to augment the talent level of your team. Here's an article on the logic behind drafting the best player available (with a few exceptions, i.e. QB) instead of entering the draft with a laundry list.

Without reading the article (leaving the office for the day), I think players like Eli are the exception much more than the rule. The Giants knew when they were able to get Eli, that he could be the QB for the next decade and that his ability to play QB as a college player far exceeded that of any college QB that has come out in years and likely won't be seen again for some time. That would be the type of player that you draft regardless of what needs your team has. I would say the same about Reggie Bush this year. And in no way am I saying that we should draft all these rookies and start them day 1. I'm simply saying that these rookies, according to the so-called experts (whom I rely upon because I haven't seen the rookies with my own two eyes), are the most ready and closest to being able to start in the NFL.

 

I simply would draft the best player available in a given position for the first 2 or 3 rounds; but again, making sure that that position is covered by a veteran until that rookie can step in and contribute on a consistent level. After the first few rounds, I agree wholeheartedly that you're taking best player available regardless of position.

[Pizan]

Arrington and Madison tops Giants help-wanted List Article from the Star Ledger.

 

Arrington, Madison top Giants' help-wanted list

Tuesday, March 07, 2006

BY MIKE GARAFOLO

Star-Ledger Staff

 

The start of free agency is still two days away, but the Giants have begun actively pursuing at least one player to help them on defense.

 

And they could be after another one as well.

Cornerback Sam Madison, a nine-year veteran who was released by the Dolphins last week, visited the Giants yesterday and took a physical, according to a team official. Madison arrived in the morning and left early in the afternoon.

 

General manager Ernie Accorsi declined comment when asked about the negotiations and Madison's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, did not return several phone messages.

Meanwhile, one Giants player said yesterday that middle linebacker Antonio Pierce has begun making a big push for the team to sign outside linebacker LaVar Arrington, his former teammate with the Redskins.

 

Arrington, 27, was drafted second overall by Washington in 2000 and made three consecutive Pro Bowls beginning with his second season in the league when he recorded three interceptions. In 2002, the former Penn State star had a career-best 11 sacks and forced six fumbles the following season.

 

But Arrington's final two years in Washington were marred by a knee injury, a contract dispute and his being benched for one game this past season. At the time, the team said the benching was because Arrington was still recovering from his injury, but it was widely reported the coaching staff was upset with his undisciplined play in coordinator Gregg Williams' system.

 

On Sunday, Arrington agreed to a buyout of his contract instead of waiting until June to be released.

 

The Giants player, who requested anonymity, said the team is interested in Arrington, but isn't certain the franchise has enough money under the current salary cap to afford him. However, if the NFL owners accept the union's latest proposal for a new collective bargaining agreement today, the cap would rise about $10 million per team. That would give the Giants plenty of room to add Arrington.

 

The player also noted that while money will be a concern for Arrington, the fact that he forfeited $4 million to leave Washington is proof a good situation is also of major importance to him. Playing alongside Pierce on a team that is on the upswing could qualify as a good situation.

 

In a radio interview in Washington yesterday, Arrington said he wants to stay in the NFC East, but would prefer not to play for the Cowboys. That obviously leaves the Eagles and Giants as the top two on his list of potential destinations. In recent years, though, the Eagles have been reluctant to give big contracts to linebackers. Instead, they have settled on players such as Nate Wayne and former Giant Dhani Jones, who have come at discounted rates.

 

The Giants, who signed Pierce one year after adding outside linebacker and former Eagle Carlos Emmons in 2004, have been more willing to pour money into the position. Accorsi refused to comment on the team's interest in Arrington, whose agent, Carl Poston, did not return a phone message left at his office yesterday afternoon.

 

When asked yesterday on his way out of Giants Stadium if he had petitioned the team to pursue Arrington, Pierce would not comment. He did say, though, that he had recently been told by doctors he is back to 100 percent after suffering an ankle injury that kept him out of the final three regular-season games and the playoff loss to the Panthers.

 

It was in that defeat to Carolina that the Giants' injury-depleted back seven was exploited. It then became obvious the team needed more depth and reliable veterans at linebacker and in the secondary.

 

Madison, who turns 32 in April, could be the first player added to fill such voids. However, he is no longer the shutdown corner who had 20 interceptions combined in 1998-2000. In fact, Miami cut him even though he was willing to take a pay cut.

 

The Giants would like to add Madison at a discounted rate. With Will Allen likely to leave once free agency begins, Corey Webster entering his second year and Will Peterson's health uncertain, a player like Madison could be a reliable third corner and possibly a starter.