Herc Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 that's still no reason to keep a bad coach. cam cameron could easily be the next mangini or peyton. personally i'd hire rivera or rex ryan but that's just me, i think a defensive minded coach would be the right move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 A year could very well turn into 4 or 5 years if we hire the wrong guy again. Say we hired Cam Cameron and he was a complete bust for 3 years. Then what? Now your franchise is really in trouble. Of course, there can be rewards with hiring guys like Cameron but it just may not be worth it. At least with TC the players know what they are going to get and that creates stability. Whether you like it or not, I have to say it was the right move. I don't understand this train of thought. It's better to plateau with a coach with obvious failings than to try to get to the next level with someone who may or not be better? The guy is 25-25. Exactly .500. The risk isn't all that great. This isn't a level I want to stay at, and this isn't exactly the same as an off season for someone like Don Shula or Jeff Fisher. If this guy doesn't pull some great game-day assistants out of his sleeve, we're getting more of the same. I don't know if he is even able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 he's not getting any good assistants. no one wants to work for him, just like no one wants to play for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 he's not getting any good assistants. no one wants to work for him, just like no one wants to play for him Jeez, Midas, let me have at least a little hope. You're probably right, but let me have some denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 no, i do hope so as well. i'vejust never been so frustrated with this team. i can take losing seasons, i can't take bad directions though. i thought coughlin was the wrong choice when we hired him. out of all 4 candidates i had him ranked 4th. now he's obviously the worst of all four candidates and ownership is still keeping him. it just seems like ownership is very elitist and cliquey to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 even if they aren't waiting on the '08 offseason for cowher, bellicek, etc they are still makikng coughlin a lame duck. everyone knows that when there's a year left on someone's contract the FO makes a decision, fire or extension. thus he's still technically a lame duck, just like he was this past season, and just like he would've been this upcoming season unless they gave him a 2 year extension. nothing changes, i read somewhere today--and it's a great point--that even if we get off to a 3-0 start there will still be issues when we get that first loss. the players dont respect this guy and there's nothing mroe to it. ownership is playing us like fools saying stuff like "players are on board, those who are brave enough to put a name next to their quote" give me a break, no one's gonna say how they really feel about htis guy and put their name on it. NFL contracts aren't guarenteed. it really made me sick listening to mara and coughlin being interviewed on the radio. mara: "this wasn't a difficult decision" coughlin " i never worried about my job. we had injuries. you dont understand what i meant 3 years ago, i meant they were a mental thing like players wouldn'tplay through them,blah blah blah" what a fucking joke. we're fucked and i have no faith in jerry reese either. thanks to these pricks and their stupid elitist circle our football team is fucked until the next george young drops into our laps. i can't stress enough how disgusted i am with this organization Admiral Kid (Promoted from Captain Kid - "YOU ARE IN COMMAND NOW....ADMIRAL KID" ). You took the words right out of my mouth. I have been saying the same thing on this board and to friends for the past 4 or 5 days. This is almost as bad as when they gave an obviously disinterested Reeves an extension. I guess Giants management thinks they get some kind of bonus points for holding onto incompetent coaches or broken down players. If they do then they need to apply their bonus points to the commissioner for relief against Giants type calls from the refs. Denial of the obvious is running rampant throughout all Giantsdom, and they better aggressively go after better coaching material next year otherwise they will face the wrath and defection of thousands of fans (myself included). At one point I said Cheer Leader should go back to the college ranks....but I would not inflict his type of nonsense on a prison squad. Hell 300lb Bubba The Butt Taker would suffer a season ending injury in game three or sooner...and Cheer Leader would talk about how he was coming back next week or soon there after. This is so lame and pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 I don't understand this train of thought. It's better to plateau with a coach with obvious failings than to try to get to the next level with someone who may or not be better? The guy is 25-25. Exactly .500. The risk isn't all that great. This isn't a level I want to stay at, and this isn't exactly the same as an off season for someone like Don Shula or Jeff Fisher. If this guy doesn't pull some great game-day assistants out of his sleeve, we're getting more of the same. I don't know if he is even able to do that. Keep in mind his assistants were idiots and he's had bad injuries each season here. He has to change in that regard, he has to make sure the risk is lowered for all of these injuries. There is a risk to changing coaches and going to a guy that you really don't know what you are going to get from. I don't think Cameron is that good, and the only one on the market that I really like is Ron Rivera. And who knows where he may go. Whether you like it or not, it's time to live with this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Keep in mind his assistants were idiots and he's had bad injuries each season here. He has to change in that regard, he has to make sure the risk is lowered for all of these injuries. There is a risk to changing coaches and going to a guy that you really don't know what you are going to get from. I don't think Cameron is that good, and the only one on the market that I really like is Ron Rivera. And who knows where he may go. Whether you like it or not, it's time to live with this move. I'm aware of the quality of his assistants, and have been saying so for quite a while. I've also stated on a few occasions that Coughlin's biggest weakness is his gameday ability. His fate rests upon who he is able to acquire to actually gameplan, and to call plays on Sunday. My opinion continues to be that the man should be heading a scouting department, evaluating players, and not necessarily be the one trying to get the most from these players. And of course there is a risk to changing coaches. There is always a risk in change. For all we know, Cowher (whose been with one team for around 15 years) is a product of a system at Pittsburgh, or is currently suffering from burn out. Look at Joe Gibbs, returning to the same position on the same team he had when he was amazing coach. The results: something shy of what they were hoping for, I suspect. There are no guarentees, except that things won't change if you don't take risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambrosio Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 i orignally thought no. but then i realized, who else this year would we have hired? cowher and bellichick are out. college coach? no thanks. we had no choice this year. our only option was to fix our playcalling and our defensive schemes. that was our big problem last year. our offense will play off of gilbride's calls, which they seem to like, and hopefully we can get a dc that our defense will play under and will take pressure off coughlin for the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 i orignally thought no. but then i realized, who else this year would we have hired? cowher and bellichick are out. college coach? no thanks. we had no choice this year. our only option was to fix our playcalling and our defensive schemes. that was our big problem last year. our offense will play off of gilbride's calls, which they seem to like, and hopefully we can get a dc that our defense will play under and will take pressure off coughlin for the players. Sorry Midas but I am in the same boat as jambrosio now unless there is a HUGE .....I MEAN HUGE turn around in 2007 (like 1st round bye and getting to the big one) then maybe he Tom will be ok but if there is anything less. dump the prick next year when we will have a better coach garden to harvest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Keep in mind his assistants were idiots who hired them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icavesai69 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 You guys are saying that none of the players really like coughlin, well none of you are in the locker room, and none of you are in the office with them. All you get is what the media presents, and i rather trust the decisions they make then listen to the media. Coughlin's gonna be here again, it was the right decision. Look at the dolphins, for example, from Jimmy to Wacksted to Saban and now what? They are a team thats lost and most likely royally fucked unless they get a REALLY good OC and GM. Changing coaches is never a good thing, especially when there are no other prominent candidates. And what are the odds that if we did sign a small name coach that they would be incredible like Peyton and Mangenious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 You guys are saying that none of the players really like coughlin, well none of you are in the locker room, and none of you are in the office with them. All you get is what the media presents, and i rather trust the decisions they make then listen to the media. Coughlin's gonna be here again, it was the right decision. Look at the dolphins, for example, from Jimmy to Wacksted to Saban and now what? They are a team thats lost and most likely royally fucked unless they get a REALLY good OC and GM. Changing coaches is never a good thing, especially when there are no other prominent candidates. And what are the odds that if we did sign a small name coach that they would be incredible like Peyton and Mangenious? I don't really care if Coughlin gets christmas cards or not, I'm concerned about his coaching being ineffective. I don't even understand your point about Miami--Jimmy Johnson retired unexpectedly, and Saban flat-out quit after saying he wasn't. So two of the last 3 coaches quit on them, not the other way around. Considering that Wannstedt was on Johnson's staff, you might say that Miami had continued with Johnson's basic philosophy even after he left. The only guy that was actually fired was Wannstedt, and he had 4 years to get it right. He's gone on to be a poor college head coach at Pitt. Changing coaches is never a good thing? So you were for keeping Handley? This is nothing more than fanspeak for "I wanted the coach gone, but he's staying, and I have to put a good light on it." I don't mind if people wanted to keep Coughlin because they like Coughlin, but this fear of change thing is freaking me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I don't really care if Coughlin gets christmas cards or not, I'm concerned about his coaching being ineffective. I don't even understand your point about Miami--Jimmy Johnson retired unexpectedly, and Saban flat-out quit after saying he wasn't. So two of the last 3 coaches quit on them, not the other way around. Considering that Wannstedt was on Johnson's staff, you might say that Miami had continued with Johnson's basic philosophy even after he left. The only guy that was actually fired was Wannstedt, and he had 4 years to get it right. He's gone on to be a poor college head coach at Pitt. Changing coaches is never a good thing? So you were for keeping Handley? This is nothing more than fanspeak for "I wanted the coach gone, but he's staying, and I have to put a good light on it." I don't mind if people wanted to keep Coughlin because they like Coughlin, but this fear of change thing is freaking me out. I remember when Wannstedt (Wankjob) turned his nose up on the Giants around the same time Coach Cheer Leader wanted no part of them the first time around. And you know what I was never so happy to see two guys turn down the Giants in my life. Both were and are losers in my opinion...jumped up coordinators who cannot really handle the big job for any length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 haha, do you have a nickname for every coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 haha, do you have a nickname for every coach? I try Admiral...I try. After watching as much football as I have (my dad is a football addict pro and college) the coaches start to fade into each other...but the nicknames stick in your mind. The only college coach I will never forget is watching that crazed fuck Woody Hayes karate chop an opposing player on the sidelines as he was streaking down the field in a bowl game on a kickoff (or interception/punt return?). That shit was fucking priceless. Still laughing about it 20 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I can see how people would become enamored with Pete Carrol, his body of work in the NFL with the Jets and Pats was stellar Guy is a great college coach and thats it, nowhere near qualified to want the "total autonomy" he covets or the 7 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxRik Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I try Admiral...I try. After watching as much football as I have (my dad is a football addict pro and college) the coaches start to fade into each other...but the nicknames stick in your mind. The only college coach I will never forget is watching that crazed fuck Woody Hayes karate chop an opposing player on the sidelines as he was streaking down the field in a bowl game on a kickoff (or interception/punt return?). That shit was fucking priceless. Still laughing about it 20 years later. You mean this? Now THAT'S a coach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 You mean this? Now THAT'S a coach! Thanks BronxRik....it brings a tear to my eye... ! Old Crazy Ass Woody Hayes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Compared to CheerLeader, Ol' Woody Craze would have body slammed (tried to anyway) Kiwi after that missed sack; and he would have been carted off in a straitjacket...with a bite guard...and a needle sticking out of his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 2007 will determine it all to stay...he must win a playoff game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Even funnier thread lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 he's not getting any good assistants. no one wants to work for him, just like no one wants to play for him LOL. I love when people bring up the "players don't want to play for him" argument against Coughlin. Question: Since the inception of FA how many players have taken less money because they really wanted to play somewhere? 1 a year? 2? My gues is it is closer to 2 or 3 a decade. Same goes for coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 two words Jon Gruden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Wow, forgot how bitter I was about that late-season collapse in 2006, especially the Titans game. I remember saying something to the effect once we were 6-2 that all we had to do was play .500 ball from then on in order to get into the playoffs. Wrong on both counts, lol. For some reason, 2006 hurt more than 2009 or 2010 for me. Hard to believe considering we had to deal with Lewis and Hufnagel that year. But you could almost see it coming in 2009, and at least last year we could console ourselves with a winning record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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