Eli Haters

[fbomb]

All it proves is that statistics doesn't always show the true picture.

 

 

I never rely on stats to prove a point. The only stat that counts is a W. Period. Eli has stunk up the joint lately.

[Sephiroth]

Think about it, any QB in the league throws a TD instead of an INT on that roll out INT. Anyone. That was a terrible throw, mostly because he once again threw off his back foot rather than getting his back hip around and allowing him to get more rotation and power on his throw.

 

 

Or how about the swing pass to Barber that fell at his feet? Or how about the throw behind Shockey on third down? Those aren't the reciever's faults; it' Eli not getting the ball to an area where a practice-squad player can.

 

Bottom line: Eli has sucked for these past three weeks, he sucked the second half of the season last year, and we need to bring in a reliable backup next year in case he continues to suck the rest of the way into next season.

[Giantfan1943]

The whole team really didn't suck. it was mostly Eli throwing the ball anywhere but where it needed to go. His lack of accuracy puts his receivers in vulnerable positions, leaving them less than confident in catching the ball.

 

Think about it, any QB in the league throws a TD instead of an INT on that roll out INT. Anyone. That was a terrible throw, mostly because he once again threw off his back foot rather than getting his back hip around and allowing him to get more rotation and power on his throw. Instead of killing the team, he lifts them up. The offensive line did a nice job pass blocking and gave Eli more than enough time. He just sucked that bad.

 

As far as run blocking, well, the Giants schemes weren't great. Running the ball at Henderson and Stroud is never going to work. They needed to get the LB's out of the box by splitting the TE out. Or even running some counter plays.

 

dyinghard, i have to totally agree wiyh you. Also over the last 4 weeks Eli has really looked like crap. We were lucky to play TB & Houston and not a decent team. I didn't think i would ever say this, but the lost of Luke is a real killer. I have never been a Eli hater, but i must say that i am totally concerned about his bad play lately and that we will only go as far as Eli takes us. Which right now doesn't seem to promising.

[dyinghard]

Or how about the swing pass to Barber that fell at his feet? Or how about the throw behind Shockey on third down? Those aren't the reciever's faults; it' Eli not getting the ball to an area where a practice-squad player can.

 

Bottom line: Eli has sucked for these past three weeks, he sucked the second half of the season last year, and we need to bring in a reliable backup next year in case he continues to suck the rest of the way into next season.

that swing to Tiki in the flats was a flat out abortion of a pass. It was utterly disgusting. He really needs to screw his head on straight. Period.

[Hampton27 missed]

All it proves is that statistics doesn't always show the true picture.

No, what it proves is that most QBs including the great ones started out with mediocre pass completion pct. just like Eli. The facts are that Eli didn't get sacked alot. QBs that take sacks have a higher completion pct. So if we go back and look at all of these other QBs and see their amount of sacks in their early years, and if they have twice as many sacks per attempt, that would be a big bonus for Eli.

 

I'm just adding more light on this subject. I know that Eli had a few poor games and his accuracy has been putrid lately.

[dyinghard]

No, what it proves is that most QBs including the great ones started out with mediocre pass completion pct. just like Eli. The facts are that Eli didn't get sacked alot. QBs that take sacks have a higher completion pct. So if we go back and look at all of these other QBs and see their amount of sacks in their early years, and if they have twice as many sacks per attempt, that would be a big bonus for Eli.

 

I'm just adding more light on this subject. I know that Eli had a few poor games and his accuracy has been putrid lately.

Ahhhhh horse hockey. It's got nothing to do with not taking sacks. As a matter of fact, maybe if he took some sacks, his turnover rate would be down. Stop reguritating something you herd once because it's ridiculous. His accuracy rating is down because he has poor accuracy. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't put the ball where it needs to be making catching the ball difficult. He doesn't deliver the ball well enough more often than not. He's 6'4" tall and he plays like he's 4'6", it's time for him to grow up and start making plays consistently. I'm tired of hearing about swirling winds and sack aversion. He's not accurate because he's either not that good, or because he's in a funk. I'd like to believe that it's the latter, but it's looking more like the trend than the exception. But, with a handle like yours, you'll defend him until your death.

[Hampton27 missed]

Ahhhhh horse hockey. It's got nothing to do with not taking sacks. As a matter of fact, maybe if he took some sacks, his turnover rate would be down. Stop reguritating something you herd once because it's ridiculous. His accuracy rating is down because he has poor accuracy. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't put the ball where it needs to be making catching the ball difficult. He doesn't deliver the ball well enough more often than not. He's 6'4" tall and he plays like he's 4'6", it's time for him to grow up and start making plays consistently. I'm tired of hearing about swirling winds and sack aversion. He's not accurate because he's either not that good, or because he's in a funk. I'd like to believe that it's the latter, but it's looking more like the trend than the exception. But, with a handle like yours, you'll defend him until your death.

Ahhhh but you forgot to add in that when he throws a good pass, it is often dropped. I agree that his accuracy has been bad the last four games. It's not something that I've heard, it's something that I have known for years, take a sack instead of throwing the ball away and you have one less incompletion.

 

Since you want to bring up the turnover rate, it has been better than these other great QBs in their early years. These last two losses are clearly put on Manning and I'm not happy about it. I think he needs to sit and get his head together for a few series.

 

I'm defending Manning because I like to look at the big picture instead of the last few games. I chose this handle because I believe that when it is all said and done, he will be a winner.

[dyinghard]

Ahhhh but you forgot to add in that when he throws a good pass, it is often dropped. I agree that his accuracy has been bad the last four games. It's not something that I've heard, it's something that I have known for years, take a sack instead of throwing the ball away and you have one less incompletion.

 

Since you want to bring up the turnover rate, it has been better than these other great QBs in their early years. These last two losses are clearly put on Manning and I'm not happy about it. I think he needs to sit and get his head together for a few series.

 

I'm defending Manning because I like to look at the big picture instead of the last few games. I chose this handle because I believe that when it is all said and done, he will be a winner.

Well you're not looking at the big picture. If you were you'd note how last year he did what.......

 

Last year, the Giants started off 6-2. Eli had big games against St. Louis and San Diego, in consecutive weeks. Through the first three games, he had a rating of 88.7, 689 yards 5 TD and 2 INT.

 

Through the Denver game, Eli had some nice games including the come from behind win in the Denver game. Starting with the 36-0 Redskin Massacre in the Meadowlands, Eli began a precipitous fall. Eli's rating in the Washington game was 51.3 for 146 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. He also had a season low for accuracy at 38.7% or 12 for thirty-one.

 

After winning in week eight to push the overall record to 6-2, the Giants were piosed for a dominant year.

 

They then lost to Minnesota in week 9. Eli was 23 for 48, 47.9% for 291 yards 1 TD and 4 INT and 39.5 rating.

 

He bounced back against Philly with a solid day. 17 for 26, 65.4% 218 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT a 130 rating.

 

Against Seattle he had big yardage, a couple of TD's and one pick.

 

Beginning with Dallas and ending with Washington, the Giants won and lost in spite of or due to, respectively, Eli.

 

Over the last five games of the season, Eli was 92 of 172, 53.5% 1098 yards 4 TD, 7 INT, a 64.1 rating.

 

The last game against Oakland padded that last section some as Eli tanked against Dallas with a season low 29.7 rating, tied his season low for accuracy of 38.7% and had 0 TD and 2 INT.

 

In the second Philly game while throwing for over three hundred yards, he also completed three passes to the defense. He had a 63.6% accuracy rating, 28 for 44. He also had a TD pass.

 

KC was Tiki day and Eli didn't have enough if the Giants needed it as he went 17 for 32 53.1% 1 TD 1 INT and a 68 rating.

 

And against Washington the second time..... Painfully mediocre 23 for 41 for 244 1 TD 1 INT a 76.1 rating. Was exactly lighting the world on fire there.

 

While the defense was injured towards the end of the year, that's no excuse for Manning's poor play over the course of the Second half of the season.

 

The Giants are now heading into the second half of the season now and guess who started off hot, and is now starting to fall off the face of the Earth. I'll give you a hint:

 

He's a former #1 pick in the 2004 NFL Draft.

He was traded for two first round picks and a second round pick.

He lead the team to a 6-2 first half record in 2005.

He lead the team to a 6-2 first half record in 2006.

He lead a dramatic comeback in the first half of the season in 2005.

He lead a dramatic comeback in the first half of the season in 2006.

Through 8 games Eli had 14 TD and 5 INT in 2005.

Through 8 games Eli had 15 TD and 9 INT in 2006.

 

The Ninth game of the season in 2005 Eli bombed against the NFC Central Vikings.

The Ninth game of the season in 2006 Eli bombed against the NFC Central Bears.

In 2005, the Giants fell to the Panthers 23-0, ousted in the first round after winning the Division.

In 2006, the Giants ______________________________________________________________.

 

You may like that pattern, but that's not the pattern of a champion. The Giants need a closer. Eli Manning needs to prove that he can close out a season. I don't want the blank to be filled in in 2006 the way it was in 2005.

[Sephiroth]

Eli was traded for two first rounders, a third and a fifth.

 

 

I'd take either of the two guys San Diego picked over Eli right about now. I'm tired of excuses. He needs to perform or we need a new QB.

[Hampton27 missed]

Well you're not looking at the big picture. If you were you'd note how last year he did what.......

 

Last year, the Giants started off 6-2. Eli had big games against St. Louis and San Diego, in consecutive weeks. Through the first three games, he had a rating of 88.7, 689 yards 5 TD and 2 INT.

 

Through the Denver game, Eli had some nice games including the come from behind win in the Denver game. Starting with the 36-0 Redskin Massacre in the Meadowlands, Eli began a precipitous fall. Eli's rating in the Washington game was 51.3 for 146 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. He also had a season low for accuracy at 38.7% or 12 for thirty-one.

 

After winning in week eight to push the overall record to 6-2, the Giants were piosed for a dominant year.

 

They then lost to Minnesota in week 9. Eli was 23 for 48, 47.9% for 291 yards 1 TD and 4 INT and 39.5 rating.

 

He bounced back against Philly with a solid day. 17 for 26, 65.4% 218 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT a 130 rating.

 

Against Seattle he had big yardage, a couple of TD's and one pick.

 

Beginning with Dallas and ending with Washington, the Giants won and lost in spite of or due to, respectively, Eli.

 

Over the last five games of the season, Eli was 92 of 172, 53.5% 1098 yards 4 TD, 7 INT, a 64.1 rating.

 

The last game against Oakland padded that last section some as Eli tanked against Dallas with a season low 29.7 rating, tied his season low for accuracy of 38.7% and had 0 TD and 2 INT.

 

In the second Philly game while throwing for over three hundred yards, he also completed three passes to the defense. He had a 63.6% accuracy rating, 28 for 44. He also had a TD pass.

 

KC was Tiki day and Eli didn't have enough if the Giants needed it as he went 17 for 32 53.1% 1 TD 1 INT and a 68 rating.

 

And against Washington the second time..... Painfully mediocre 23 for 41 for 244 1 TD 1 INT a 76.1 rating. Was exactly lighting the world on fire there.

 

While the defense was injured towards the end of the year, that's no excuse for Manning's poor play over the course of the Second half of the season.

 

The Giants are now heading into the second half of the season now and guess who started off hot, and is now starting to fall off the face of the Earth. I'll give you a hint:

 

He's a former #1 pick in the 2004 NFL Draft.

He was traded for two first round picks and a second round pick.

He lead the team to a 6-2 first half record in 2005.

He lead the team to a 6-2 first half record in 2006.

He lead a dramatic comeback in the first half of the season in 2005.

He lead a dramatic comeback in the first half of the season in 2006.

Through 8 games Eli had 14 TD and 5 INT in 2005.

Through 8 games Eli had 15 TD and 9 INT in 2006.

 

The Ninth game of the season in 2005 Eli bombed against the NFC Central Vikings.

The Ninth game of the season in 2006 Eli bombed against the NFC Central Bears.

In 2005, the Giants fell to the Panthers 23-0, ousted in the first round after winning the Division.

In 2006, the Giants ______________________________________________________________.

 

You may like that pattern, but that's not the pattern of a champion. The Giants need a closer. Eli Manning needs to prove that he can close out a season. I don't want the blank to be filled in in 2006 the way it was in 2005.

 

That was a nice analysis. It must have took some time in doing it. I am not denying that Eli didn't become very average in the second half of last season. You also must look deeper into some of the games. Plax dropped a sure TD in the second Redskin game and it would have been a momentum changer.

 

I'm not denying that Eli doesn't have accuracy issues, most do early in their careers. Ben last year and Rivers and Romo this year are very rare for young QBs. Please tell me any others beside Marino and Montana, who played in a west coast offense with the dink and dunk passes, that have lit it up early in their careers?

 

If Eli is so bad, then please tell me why he threw more TD passes in a single season than Aikman ever had? And please don't tell me that Eli has a more talented team than Aikman had.

 

 

Eli was traded for two first rounders, a third and a fifth.

I'd take either of the two guys San Diego picked over Eli right about now. I'm tired of excuses. He needs to perform or we need a new QB.

 

Let's see, we only lost one 1st rounder the following year (2005). Please explain about this other 1st rounder that you are talking about. In 2004, we picked Rivers with the 4th pick and traded it for SD's 1st pick. We still acquired a 1st rounder in Eli Manning. We also gave up our 3rd round pick that year (2004). In 2005, we gave up our 1st and 5th rounder. I might be forgetting about another pick but it clearly wasn't a first rounder. We picked Kiwanuka in the first round this year (2006).

[dyinghard]

The thing is you can't compare Eli to what other QB's did to justify how he's playing now. It offers me no solace to know that other QB's struggled early in their careers, considering how poorly he is playing. When a QB is turning sure TD's into INT's it's more than disheartening. When a third year QB is showing absolutely no sign of growth, that's a huge sign that something is wrong. You can blame play-calling you can blame coaching, both of which factor in, however the game comes down to execution. With Eli being as erratic a passer as he is, it's difficult for the offense to have faith that Eli is going to put the ball where it should be.

 

With how erratically he throw the ball, the receivers have to be down right scared they are going to get leveled.

[JayD]

One thing to me is painfully obvious. Eli is just like his brother. Peyton is great, cause he calls all the shots. If he were made to go with a game plan, he wouldnt do as well as he does. Last week we gave the ball to Eli for one series and said, its all up to you, you call the plays, you make the adjustments, its all on you. What happened? Eli marched down the field and scored a TD with no problem. Thats basicaly what happens every time we hand him the play calling. Yet we STILL have Huf calling the shots

[Hampton27 missed]

Sure you can, it's called growing pains. All QBs go into slumps. Ben did it this year and so did Brady. QBs are not machines nor robots, they are human. Eli needs to get into a rhythm and his teammates are not helping him right now and at the end of last year. QBs and WRs feed off each other. You can give up on Manning, be my guest. I have seen what he can do and I'm gonna stick with him.

[Sephiroth]

Let's see, we only lost one 1st rounder the following year (2005). Please explain about this other 1st rounder that you are talking about.

 

 

Phillip Rivers wasn't our pick. Yes, I know we picked him, but everyone in the world knew that San Diego wanted him, not us. That's first rounder number one.

 

Then we had a third that year, and a first and fifth the year after. That's four picks for one guy. If we had taken someone else, then traded away a first, third, and fifth, that would have been three picks.

 

As it is now, it was four picks for Manning.

[randoff]

Sure you can, it's called growing pains. All QBs go into slumps. Ben did it this year and so did Brady. QBs are not machines nor robots, they are human. Eli needs to get into a rhythm and his teammates are not helping him right now and at the end of last year. QBs and WRs feed off each other. You can give up on Manning, be my guest. I have seen what he can do and I'm gonna stick with him.

And ALL QB's mentioned above fix their woes by practicing, getting active in play calling and leading their team by commanding respect. This Eli is showing none of that. Sulking and being 'pouty' aint cuttin' it! And this RHYTHM thing we need to see comes from working out with your recievers a la Shockey and Burress. My question is: Are these 3 even practicing together? Because on Sundays it seems like Eli/Plax/Shock are not even on the same field much less the same page.

(My guess is Plax/Shock are not practicing like they should with Eli because those two guys seem to think they are better than they really are). Lack of respect issue IMO because Eli hasn't shown any nuts to get on their asses!!!!

[gateb]

Both Romo and Rivers were able to spend two seasons on the bench watching pro-bowl QB's play. Eli spent 6 weeks backing up the shadow of a pro-bowler. So it is fair to compare the two's numbers? How about when teams start to get film on Homo... They will get his number soon, it happens to every QB.

 

3 weeks ago they were saying it looked like Eli turned a corner. Then they stopped handing the ball to Tiki and Eli pulled a U-turn.

 

I do not disagree he sucked monkey nuts last night, but the team as a whole sucked last night.

I wouldn't call Testaverde and Quincy Carter pro bowl QBs.

 

I'm not getting caught up in all of this right now. Through all of Eli's inconsistencies and problems, he has proven that he wins games. The loss to Jacksonville was our first two game losing streak since the beginning of 2005. And in Eli's porous December, we went 4-1 during that span, the most important month of the year.

 

The point is, winning is all that matters. But Eli really really needs to change some things drastically.

 

When was our last drive in the first quarter that went 9 plays 70 yards 6 minutes and resulted in a TD? We haven't had those all year. Our opening drives haven't been that crisp this year. The only one that comes to mind where we scored a TD was against the Eagles, which was about 6 plays and contained a 40 yard TD pass. Other then that. Nothing.

[US Patriot]

One thing to me is painfully obvious. Eli is just like his brother. Peyton is great, cause he calls all the shots. If he were made to go with a game plan, he wouldnt do as well as he does. Last week we gave the ball to Eli for one series and said, its all up to you, you call the plays, you make the adjustments, its all on you. What happened? Eli marched down the field and scored a TD with no problem. Thats basicaly what happens every time we hand him the play calling. Yet we STILL have Huf calling the shots

The most vital part of this post is your comment regarding Huf. This fool could not recognize any defense that is being played, so he is unable to call an offensive game that is successful. Another point that must be mentioned is that Coughlin won't overide Stupidnagle when it is obvious that his playcalling is not effective. That speaks volumes about the abilities of both of these a-holes. No matter how the Giants do for the rest of the year, both of these useless clowns need to be fired after the season. Just consider this fact, the Giants could have had Lovie Smith as the head coach but Awful Accorsi chose Thoughtless Tom Coughlin.

[Hampton27 missed]

Phillip Rivers wasn't our pick. Yes, I know we picked him, but everyone in the world knew that San Diego wanted him, not us. That's first rounder number one.

 

Then we had a third that year, and a first and fifth the year after. That's four picks for one guy. If we had taken someone else, then traded away a first, third, and fifth, that would have been three picks.

 

As it is now, it was four picks for Manning.

 

Our net loss was 3 draft picks, one being a first rounder. Just like you said, we never wanted Rivers, so in essence, we moved up 3 places in the draft and gave away 3 draft picks in doing so. Bottom line, you can't say we lost 4 draft picks but you can say we gave up 4 draft picks for 1 draft pick. I may have misunderstood you.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

The most vital part of this post is your comment regarding Huf. This fool could not recognize any defense that is being played, so he is unable to call an offensive game that is successful. Another point that must be mentioned is that Coughlin won't overide Stupidnagle when it is obvious that his playcalling is not effective. That speaks volumes about the abilities of both of these a-holes. No matter how the Giants do for the rest of the year, both of these useless clowns need to be fired after the season. Just consider this fact, the Giants could have had Lovie Smith as the head coach but Awful Accorsi chose Thoughtless Tom Coughlin.

And as George Young used to say, you are always better off with a new guy than a retread. Retread's have too many scars and things to prove (often self-perceived) to the front office. And I do not think the G-men were as out of control as was played up in the media; and even if I am looking for a drill-sergeant Couglin ain't it. I want a tough mined guy who has seen the elephant (e.g. Superbowl) and not someone tied up on what color socks you are wearing and associated bullshit.

[Hampton27 missed]

Accorsi didn't want Coughlin, it was Wellington Mara. I don't believe that his son will get rid of Coughlin easily as it was one of the last things his father wanted. Coughlin may be moved up to GM though. The draft picks have been better since TC arrived.

[US Patriot]

And as George Young used to say, you are always better off with a new guy than a retread. Retread's have too many scars and things to prove (often self-perceived) to the front office. And I do not think the G-men were as out of control as was played up in the media; and even if I am looking for a drill-sergeant Couglin ain't it. I want a tough mined guy who has seen the elephant (e.g. Superbowl) and not someone tied up on what color socks you are wearing and associated bullshit.

I just found out that Coughlin only played 2 years of college football for Syracuse as a "wing-back" and not one day of pro ball. Stupidnagle was a qb for 2 years for Denver and then went on to the minor league CFL where he played and coached for many years. I think that level of experience shows quite clearly that he is not fit to be in the NFL as anything except locker cleaner attendant. I often wonder if the owners of the Giants are as committed to winning as the fans on this mb are. The stadium is totally sold-out for every game and there is a many year waiting list for tickets. They make tons of money no matter how the team is coached or the results of games.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Accorsi didn't want Coughlin, it was Wellington Mara. I don't believe that his son will get rid of Coughlin easily as it was one of the last things his father wanted. Coughlin may be moved up to GM though. The draft picks have been better since TC arrived.

I stand corrected. It must be one of those Irish guy Catholic University solidarity things.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I just found out that Coughlin only played 2 years of college football for Syracuse as a "wing-back" and not one day of pro ball. Stupidnagle was a qb for 2 years for Denver and then went on to the minor league CFL where he played and coached for many years. I think that level of experience shows quite clearly that he is not fit to be in the NFL as anything except locker cleaner attendant. I often wonder if the owners of the Giants are as committed to winning as the fans on this mb are. The stadium is totally sold-out for every game and there is a many year waiting list for tickets. They make tons of money no matter how the team is coached or the results of games.

Yeah, I call it the "New York Knicks Syndrome". As long as the arenas are perpetually sold out; there is decent media coverage; and the team(s) occasionally reach the playoffs are the main criteria for these organizations. Remember the only reason why there were changes made to these organizations were the fan protest in 1979 after The Fumble (up to that point 16 years of futility) and the possible rigging of the lottery pick so that the Knicks could get Patrick Ewing to ensure a strong NY presence in the NBA for 10+ years. Neither of these organizations (especially the Knicks) are willing to bite the bullet and accept a season or two of losing football to stock up on draft picks; unload stifling salaries and move ahead. The Giants got half way through this process by ending Young's policy of holding onto his own free agents even if that meant they were overpaying by one or two orders of magnitude. Paying role players as if they were the final pieces in the puzzle. The Knicks never got that far.