fringe Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I know why, but I was surprised. The book has him out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSportsInFL Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I know why, but I was surprised. The book has him out there. If we had Wagner in the 9th like it was supposed to be we could be going to the WS now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 i said before the postseaon that he sucked in the playoffs. i've seen it firsthand. they could've signed hoffman for 2 less years and 30 mil less. he only had one appearance against the cards this postseason but he had a 1-2-3 inning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Still think he should have been out there, regardless. You go down with your best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 i said before the postseaon that he sucked in the playoffs. i've seen it firsthand. they could've signed hoffman for 2 less years and 30 mil less. he only had one appearance against the cards this postseason but he had a 1-2-3 inning I know you love Hoffman, but his pressure situations and playoffs are spotty at best. Shit its why the Cards are heading to 20 degree Detroit. Wagner is shit, he should have been out there. The book was to be out there and his own manager and 56,000 people did not want him out there. Believe me I was there, no one second guessed it. Wagners fate with his manager and fans was sealed in game 2 when in the same spot he did what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws44 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I know you love Hoffman, but his pressure situations and playoffs are spotty at best. Shit its why the Cards are heading to 20 degree Detroit. Wagner is shit, he should have been out there. The book was to be out there and his own manager and 56,000 people did not want him out there. Believe me I was there, no one second guessed it. Wagners fate with his manager and fans was sealed in game 2 when in the same spot he did what he did. Yep. The only thing I thought could have been different was to have Wagner and Pedro F warming up durring the 8th. If it was still tied send Pedro out, If we had the lead send Wagner out. AH had a good 8th though, so I don't fault Willie for sending him out. I thought Willie was very impressive with his decision making in these playoffs. Next year Beltran will put that ball in the gap and we will win it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I know you love Hoffman, but his pressure situations and playoffs are spotty at best. Shit its why the Cards are heading to 20 degree Detroit. Wagner is shit, he should have been out there. The book was to be out there and his own manager and 56,000 people did not want him out there. Believe me I was there, no one second guessed it. Wagners fate with his manager and fans was sealed in game 2 when in the same spot he did what he did. wagner now has more spotty playoff performances than hoffman--in less chances too i might add. i know everyone likes to think about the brosius homerun, and i dont blame them cuz it was in the world series but this idea of him not being good in pressure situations is based on a selected sample size--not the entire body of work, but considering how much less he would've cost and the fact that he had no problem against the cards in the NLDS (granted it was one outing, but he had a 1-2-3 inning in less than 10 pitches) i think he's the better option. it was my opinion last offseason when the mets were looking at closers and it was my opinion before these playoffs started and i cited wagner blowing a save in his one career playoff opportunity back in '98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 anyway im not trying to argue because it's not what anyone wants to do after their team just lost and im not one to rub it in--in fact i was pulling for the mets. the idea of the cardinals backing into the playoffs and beating two teams that are better than them kind of drives me nuts since usually it's the teams that finish hot that end up doing well in the playoffs. all im saying is that the mets are paying this guy WAY too much money for him to put randolph in the position where he can't have faith in him enough to bring him in for that spot. the team's best bullpen pitcher (closer) has to be out there in the bottom of the 9th in a tie game for game 7. i dont blame willie for not trusting wagner and pitching heilman, but even if nothing is done about wagner (not much can be done) he should at least be discussed during the offseason among fans and team executives. if they signed hoffman and he did the same thing, so what? he'd be goign into next season with 1 year and 7 mil left on his deal, you could probably trade him or at least demote him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 speaking of beltran, how can you not swing at a curve ball with 2 strikes? i can accept swing and miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 yeah, it's one thing if it froze him, but why was he not sitting on curve ball? he was behind in the count and that's wainwright's out pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 anyway im not trying to argue because it's not what anyone wants to do after their team just lost and im not one to rub it in--in fact i was pulling for the mets. the idea of the cardinals backing into the playoffs and beating two teams that are better than them kind of drives me nuts since usually it's the teams that finish hot that end up doing well in the playoffs. all im saying is that the mets are paying this guy WAY too much money for him to put randolph in the position where he can't have faith in him enough to bring him in for that spot. the team's best bullpen pitcher (closer) has to be out there in the bottom of the 9th in a tie game for game 7. i dont blame willie for not trusting wagner and pitching heilman, but even if nothing is done about wagner (not much can be done) he should at least be discussed during the offseason among fans and team executives. if they signed hoffman and he did the same thing, so what? he'd be goign into next season with 1 year and 7 mil left on his deal, you could probably trade him or at least demote him I agree with everything you say, but since I have stated that our closer has cost us and taken the life out of our team and last night hamstrung our manager with confidence issues I am deemed a defeatist. So I am done talking about this, its clear that Wagner has some Benitez in him and this will be a problem until he proves otherwise. Everyone wanted a closer from the FA market, my preference was to develop one of our own. I think Sanchez has closer qualities. Wagner will be the teams closer next year and be forced to probably again save a game in a HUGE spot, so be it. Until proven otherwise though there is no debating he is a question mark in those spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 your not a defeatist, there's nothing wrong with not having confidence in players on your team. i was screaming all series at bochy for playing starting todd walker the first three games and even batting him 3rd in one of them and not giving barfield a start until game 4. same goes for giles--i have no use for him, i never wanted him and i hated him even more once we gave up perez for him. i agree with you on sanchez, i think he has a closer's mentality. if mo retires next year just dump wagner on the yankees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 hey x, did molina's ball look gone live? to me it didn't look like he got all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 hey x, did molina's ball look gone live? to me it didn't look like he got all of it. Yeah I thought he got under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 hey x, did molina's ball look gone live? to me it didn't look like he got all of it. its weird, when the rain started it got more humid and the ball seemed to carry more. Early on there was a wind that seemed to be blowing in. Once the precip started the humidity rolled in. I saw it go as I was in a box down the line in the MEZZ, my buddy in the Upper Deck behind home plate said he thought ENDY had it all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 its weird, when the rain started it got more humid and the ball seemed to carry more. Early on there was a wind that seemed to be blowing in. Once the precip started the humidity rolled in. I saw it go as I was in a box down the line in the MEZZ, my buddy in the Upper Deck behind home plate said he thought ENDY had it all the way. that's how it was called by buck as well. it ended up being no cheapie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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