NeMesiS

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print..../mets/61991.htm

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print..../mets/61991.htm

Photoshop.

Don't you have anything positive to say about the Giants?

I guess leading the NFC in Yards and TD for TE didn't earn him a spot at the Probowl? So, because one player has more SB than the other, they're a better player. So I guess Jason Garrett was a better QB than Marino.

Trust me, your: Already permantly placed you for such honor. Ripping me? I guess when over 50% of the posters agree that shockey will, and is a better TE than Bavaro. I guess they are "Ripping" me. There may be a on going debate on whether who is the better TE. But one thing is for sure, and every agrees on this. You're a complete moron.

The Ol' "You don't know anything about football " card comes out. [Enter sarcasm]Well, I apologize for using stats, common knowledge and quotes from professional player and coaches. I guess I should of known my audience and used a more "He said, she said" method of making an argument. . Maybe instead using sport news website, sports articles and coaches as resources to make my argument. I should of used what the Fag4 uses instead. (The gossip column, the local mall and hair salon.) [/Enter Sarcasm] The truth is, none of you guys have actual evidence to back your side of your argument. The only thing you have shown is your personal opinion. And I hate to burst your bubble, but your opinion means shit to the rest of us. You are a nobody...No one actual cares about your opinion. So lets review : - I was able to prove, even with a worse QB and Offensive line, Shockey was able to put better numbers than Bavaro. -You said Shockey isn't a very good blocker. (Again, your personal opinion. But keep in mind you're a nobody.) But I brought the fact that both Tiki and Coughlin said other wise. (They are a somebody) You, out of all people is accusing me of being ignorant? please, you're the very defenition of ignorance. Hey, don't hate the player, hate the game. Yaaaaawn, yeah, yeah...save it for someone who cares. Yet another "Put Shockey in the past" senerios you can't prove. OK, since that how you like to play, here's mine. Put Bavaro in todays offense, and he doesn't get passed NFL Europe. Thank you for playing "Why the fag4 are complete morons" This house is cleared.

I guess the Defense holding them to 3 and outs had nothing to do with it either. Yep, it was all the offense, not the defense.

Ok, fine. If that's the case...then if you put Bavaro in today offense, he too slow to get open and in two weeks he is benched and only used in running situation. Since you like to come up with bullshit senarios, I guess I will too. The fact of the matter is Shockey has better recieving yards than Bavaro after 4 years playing period! Yep, you're right, he does down very easily... Bavaro Wishes he could make catches like this: Once again, you show your ignorance with this comments: But yet both Tom Couglin and Tiki Praised Shockey's Blocking. Hmm, Who do I believe, The "Profession Head Coach and Player" or a complete moron? I'll stick with the head coach and player. Again, we were up by 21 points at the time. I'm sorry, but when your offense score 39 point and still loses the game. Your defense lost the game, not your offense. Even M. Strahan took full responsiblity for them losing that game. So good try, but no one is buying it. Again, Shockey had 6 drop balls (well, actually 5...but that's a complete different story) Yep, that's alot. Maybe you didn't read what I wrote "Shockey was invited to Mr. Mara's 'DEATHBED'. I know this is WAY above your head, since no one will ever want to spend their last hours on earth with you. But when someone invites you to their DEATHBED, its considered a great honor. And oh yeah, bavaro only played 6 years with the Giants. But you already knew that right? Last time I check, Shockey was select to THREE Probowls...I know adding wasn't your forte, but come on. Once again you failed....Now shoo little girl. Go read the gossip collum, leave the sports section to the real men.

Oh, before you say Bavaro has 2 SB. It was because of our defense, not our offense.

I hope you do save and print it... That way when your stupidity starts to over-coming common logic… You can always reference back to this and come back to reality. In fact, if your ever at any social gathering. Take this with you, and use it at any point you feel you’re going to say something completely stupid. Oh, lets go back to subject at hand, shall we? Recieving Since you pronged ‘put’ to the equation. I’m going to have to do the same thing. You said “Put Bavaro in this pass happy offense and Shockey would never see the field.” Well, the same goes for Shockey. Put Phil Simms and the offensive line that Bavaro had, and you’ll see Shockey break numerous TE receiving records. With 4 different starting QB and a make shift line, Shockey has already put up way better number than Bavaro… Shockey –1 Bavaro – .5 Blocking Ok, I’ll admit, Bavaro was a better blocker than Shockey, But not by much. For example: Tiki’s numbers have dramatically improved the last 2 years. And even though most of it is credited to Tiki…his teammate and Shockey had something to do with it also. And also, on SEVERAL occasion, both Tom Coughlin and Tiki Barber have praised Shockey’s blocking. So since they’re the professional and you’re, well a nobody, I’ll take tom’s and Tiki’s word over your any day. Yes, in the beginning of his career, Shockey couldn’t block to save his life. But like a true professional, he did what he could to improve and got better at blocking. Shockey – 1.5 Bavaro – 1.5 Substance and attitude Both has or had substance and attitude…Yes, Bavaro had a way about him, A quite tough guy feel to him. I remember Bavaro dragging people across the fields, knocking people out. But I don’t recall Bavaro making incredible catches. Shockey does and runs over people. You know Shockey makes some unbelievable catches over the middle. The one catch against San Diego, the one he did against the Rams when orcheleta (sp) was all over him. Also, the one against the 49ers, when Eli over threw an easy completion and Shockey made this unbelievable catch. Shockey run over players all the time. Ask Gibson, tank Williams and LaVar Arrington. Plus, Bavaro was vanilla and never pumped the offense up. Shockey does…before we drafted Shockey, we had a pretty good offense. However, they were always bullied against tougher defenses. That’s until Shockey arrived. Now, we were the one talking trash to them and backing it up. Shockey – 2.5 Bavaro – 2.0 Playoffs Bavaro never put up great playoff numbers…Yeah, he’s put up ok game. But not great. On the other hand, Shockey rocked Peterson. Who, if you remember, shut down Gonzalez. (Who people considered to be the best TE at the time) Yes he dropped a easy TD pass. But it wasn’t the game winning TD. We were up by 21 points at the time. So your argument falls on deaf ears. Nobody could have foreseen the 49ers coming back. Shockey – 3.0 Bavaro – 2.5 Loyalty Bavaro through out the years has bad mouth the Giants org. Shockey has never done that… In fact, I think Shockey was invited to join Mr. Mara in his deathbed. That speaks volumes about his character. Shockey – 4.0 Bavaro – 2.5 Pro-Bowls Shockey went to 3 in 4 year (Probably more to come BTW). Bavaro went to 2 in 9. So, as you can see, Shockey was the better Giants TE. Its been my honor and pleasure for me to make you look like the complete imbecile again.

I already proved why Shockey is better. Do I have to make you silly again?

I don't think are really interested in bringing him back.

We are....We are going to start regulating people's SIG. I'm working on the RoE right now. (Well not right now, right now. I'm currenty working.) But I get home I will revise the RoE.

At the time we up 21 points in the third quater. OK, it all Shockey's fault. You made your point. What a moron.

Yeah, Mark bavaro showed his presents against LA in 88 and against the 49ers in 89.

Oh, So now it ALL Shockeys fault? The defense had nothing to do with it? Wow you're something else. Do me a favor, take the 'Gossip' section and leave the 'Sports' section to real men.

I see...I guess being WIDE doesn't help much.

Unfortunately (And I know I’m opening a bombardment I hate Eli post from the fag4) defenses were not scared of Shockey and Plaxico is because of Eli and the offensive line. The combination of both Eli (Missing Shockey and Burress when they were WIDE open) and the offensive line (Sometime not giving Eli enough time to throw, and making stupid penalties. Which put them in obvious passing situation.) didn't allow Shockey to put even better nembers. I mean, come on, how many times was Shockey WIDE open and Eli completely missed him? Also, I recall on several occasion Shockey being double teamed, which indicates to me that the Defensive coordinator had a game plan to stop Shockey. So to completely blame Shockey for the miss firing of the offense, is absolutely ridiculous.

The obvious choice is Shockey. You see, Bavaro, was a great TE. But defenses didn’t game plan against him. They were mostly worry about our running game and Phil Simms. Also, Bavaro started breaking down after his 3rd year. While Shockey’s 4th year was his best year. Plus, Shockey has never openly bad mouth the Giants org., Bavaro has

No way...

Carpenter would be a solid choice at 25.