The O line

[UK-Giantsfan]

I'm beginning to think we need to do something radical like moving Pugh to LT and putting Flowers in at RT

 

Pugh played LT in college and also played a bit there last year (if i recall when Flowers got hurt) and was solid .

 

Then we stick Hart in at Guard and get rid of Newhouse to the bench ( or the scrapheap ).

 

Flowers would be better suited to RT anyway according to many " so called " experts.

 

PUGH - HART - RICHBURG - JERRY - FLOWERS

 

( in the same way that we moved Diehl to LT after we got rid of Petitgout all those years ago )

 

It might just work ?

 

or am i just clutching at straws of desperation ?

 

 

 

[mastershake]

I'm beginning to think we need to do something radical like moving Pugh to LT and putting Flowers in at RT

 

Pugh played LT in college and also played a bit there last year (if i recall when Flowers got hurt) and was solid .

 

Then we stick Hart in at Guard and get rid of Newhouse to the bench ( or the scrapheap ).

 

Flowers would be better suited to RT anyway according to many " so called " experts.

 

PUGH - HART - RICHBURG - JERRY - FLOWERS

 

( in the same way that we moved Diehl to LT after we got rid of Petitgout all those years ago )

 

It might just work ?

 

or am i just clutching at straws of desperation ?

 

 

 

 

I presume they've already considered Pugh at LT (as they've shuffled him around already), so maybe they already think he'll stink there?

 

Flowers might just need more reps at LT before really gelling there. Some guys just need more time to develop.

[Dragon]

I said something about this before free agency started. I'm not a fan of moving the kid around, but if he doesn't improve and fast we need to.

[Dragon]

 

I presume they've already considered Pugh at LT (as they've shuffled him around already), so maybe they already think he'll stink there?

 

Flowers might just need more reps at LT before really gelling there. Some guys just need more time to develop.

The problem with this is... they also think Newhouse is an NFL Caliber OT. Not sure they're the best judges of OL talent right now.

[Tempest]

Yeah I don't think it is a good idea to shuffle the offensive line based on what you've seen in maybe 30 minutes of two preseason football games.

[Mr. P]

Pugh, while probably getting better and will be back for the season, is hurt and didn't play saturday. I wouldn't be jumping to make him left tackle at this point.

[UK-Giantsfan]

The problem with this is... they also think Newhouse is an NFL Caliber OT. Not sure they're the best judges of OL talent right now.

 

yes this worries me . Reese should have negotiated with Beatty and put him at RT instead of cutting him ( but he obviously made a judgement that Newhouse was better than Beatty )

[mastershake]

The problem with this is... they also think Newhouse is an NFL Caliber OT. Not sure they're the best judges of OL talent right now.

 

Well, the coaches decide where the OL players will play, I presume. I'm not quite sure who to blame for the fact that the coaches have been dealt a very bad set of lineman. Perhaps the coaches had some influence on personnel signings/draft picks, but I place the primary blame with the front office.

[CrazedDogs]

Pugh doesn't have left tackle talent.

[BlueInCanada]

 

yes this worries me . Reese should have negotiated with Beatty and put him at RT instead of cutting him ( but he obviously made a judgement that Newhouse was better than Beatty )

 

I mean saying he "should have negotiated" is easier said than done, you are asking a player to cut back guaranteed money you signed in a contract, or else be cut.

 

The fact that the Giants are absorbing 5 million in dead cap money because of Beatty makes me think him and his agent told JR to go fuck himself.

[BlueInCanada]

Pugh doesn't have left tackle talent.

 

No tackles on this team have tackle talent at the moment.

 

It's more about slowing down the bleeding then finding a permanent solution.

[Dragon]

 

Well, the coaches decide where the OL players will play, I presume. I'm not quite sure who to blame for the fact that the coaches have been dealt a very bad set of lineman. Perhaps the coaches had some influence on personnel signings/draft picks, but I place the primary blame with the front office.

So do I. I called espn radio earlier and told them pretty much the same thing. While we're fooling around with our 4 tackle offensive line project instead of actually fixing the issue, we're wasting the final years and most productive years of Eli's career... AND pretty much solidifying that Beckham leaves in free agency when he gets sick of 5 straight 6-10 seasons.

[mastershake]

So do I. I called espn radio earlier and told them pretty much the same thing. While we're fooling around with our 4 tackle offensive line project instead of actually fixing the issue, we're wasting the final years and most productive years of Eli's career... AND pretty much solidifying that Beckham leaves in free agency when he gets sick of 5 straight 6-10 seasons.

 

Yeah, I mean.... I can't imagine an OL coach and the OC this offseason went into the front office and said "We're good with Newhouse as our starting RT" or "We're all set with our 2nd string lineman in case anyone gets hurt."

 

I doubt that conversation occurred. Instead, I bet the OL and OC made a plea for beefing up the OL, and were ignored by the front office (or they just couldn't make it happen through FA or the draft). Ultimately, I blame the front office.

[Dragon]

 

Yeah, I mean.... I can't imagine an OL coach and the OC this offseason went into the front office and said "We're good with Newhouse as our starting RT" or "We're all set with our 2nd string lineman in case anyone gets hurt."

 

I doubt that conversation occurred. Instead, I bet the OL and OC made a plea for beefing up the OL, and were ignored by the front office (or they just couldn't make it happen through FA or the draft). Ultimately, I blame the front office.

Can't get too mad at the draft because we only had 6 picks to work with but free agency is a completely different story. Not only that but why pass on all of the LBs that were available?

[BlueInCanada]

 

Yeah, I mean.... I can't imagine an OL coach and the OC this offseason went into the front office and said "We're good with Newhouse as our starting RT" or "We're all set with our 2nd string lineman in case anyone gets hurt."

 

I doubt that conversation occurred. Instead, I bet the OL and OC made a plea for beefing up the OL, and were ignored by the front office (or they just couldn't make it happen through FA or the draft). Ultimately, I blame the front office.

 

That's the thing though, you cant fix every single problem in one offseason, especially for a team four years removed from the playoffs.

 

This year is a new regime under the big goof and I'm sure him, his coaches and the front office all sat down and evaluated the roster and who they could bring in with FA/Draft.

 

They went hard at fixing the Dline and the secondary, much at the plea of Spags I imagine.

 

I'm sure the goof and Sullivan talked about bringing in more Oline help, but money was already being designated for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins, plus this years FA class didnt exactly have the cream of the crop at OT/G.

 

I mean I don't think the front office/coaches go into an offseason saying "We are going to ignore this position completely" as much as "We don't have the resources to fix every single leaking hole, what can we mitigate and what can we fix outright".

 

It's obvious they went with fixing up the defense as much as possible this year, while knowing the strongest unit was the offense.

 

I'm sure next offseason (as much as no one wants to hear it) the focus will be on getting Eli the help he needs, but this year they stuck with the saying "Defense wins championships"

[CrazedDogs]

 

No tackles on this team have tackle talent at the moment.

 

It's more about slowing down the bleeding then finding a permanent solution.

 

I think Flowers has the talent... in the sense that talent is merely natural ability or inborn potential.

 

Its the skills he lacks.

[mastershake]

 

That's the thing though, you cant fix every single problem in one offseason, especially for a team four years removed from the playoffs.

 

This year is a new regime under the big goof and I'm sure him, his coaches and the front office all sat down and evaluated the roster and who they could bring in with FA/Draft.

 

They went hard at fixing the Dline and the secondary, much at the plea of Spags I imagine.

 

I'm sure the goof and Sullivan talked about bringing in more Oline help, but money was already being designated for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins, plus this years FA class didnt exactly have the cream of the crop at OT/G.

 

I mean I don't think the front office/coaches go into an offseason saying "We are going to ignore this position completely" as much as "We don't have the resources to fix every single leaking hole, what can we mitigate and what can we fix outright".

 

It's obvious they went with fixing up the defense as much as possible this year, while knowing the strongest unit was the offense.

 

I'm sure next offseason (as much as no one wants to hear it) the focus will be on getting Eli the help he needs, but this year they stuck with the saying "Defense wins championships"

 

Yep, I know. I'm sure they had to pick and choose, and couldn't fill every hole.

 

Still doesn't make me comfortable that they let it even get to this point. For instance, If they had drafted better, and/or picked up better OL in past FA's, we wouldn't be this shaky on the OL.

[Bigblue25]

Pugh doesn't have left tackle talent.

I always thought he'd be better at LT then guard. He played well there last year

[Tempest]

Pugh doesn't have left tackle talent.

 

Same thing was said about David Diehl.

[CrazedDogs]

 

Same thing was said about David Diehl.

Hehe, by me!

 

He did far better than I thought he was capable.

[CrazedDogs]

I always thought he'd be better at LT then guard. He played well there last year

I didn't think he did well at Lt, not that he's had many snaps.

 

I like Pugh, but I don't see him as a pro bowl player. Lacks the explosiveness of the best offensive linemen.

 

Continuing the Diehl comp, he had a lot more strength at the point of attack than Pugh has ever shown.

[mastershake]

 

Same thing was said about David Diehl.

 

What is it with you and these anecdotes... do we have any reason to believe Pugh can replicate this and become an LT?

 

"Some guy did it awhile ago, therefore anyone can do it" is not valid reasoning.

[Firstnten]

Howard Cross has been saying that they went after "five high profile" FA's for the oline three went back to their prospective teams (basically used the Giants offer sheets as leverage) and the other two retired. So Reese's plan of fixing the line was dashed.

 

They keep (giants kickoff live podcast crew) saying that they almost won X games and that the upgrades on the defense and Skill players on Offense will make them a better team (above .500).

 

I for one am old school you START WITH THE LINES....

 

But hey I'm just some moron posting on a message board.

 

I want to be positive about this team but after last weekends game I can;t help but think same BS different year.

[Dragon]

 

That's the thing though, you cant fix every single problem in one offseason, especially for a team four years removed from the playoffs.

 

This year is a new regime under the big goof and I'm sure him, his coaches and the front office all sat down and evaluated the roster and who they could bring in with FA/Draft.

 

They went hard at fixing the Dline and the secondary, much at the plea of Spags I imagine.

 

I'm sure the goof and Sullivan talked about bringing in more Oline help, but money was already being designated for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins, plus this years FA class didnt exactly have the cream of the crop at OT/G.

 

I mean I don't think the front office/coaches go into an offseason saying "We are going to ignore this position completely" as much as "We don't have the resources to fix every single leaking hole, what can we mitigate and what can we fix outright".

 

It's obvious they went with fixing up the defense as much as possible this year, while knowing the strongest unit was the offense.

 

I'm sure next offseason (as much as no one wants to hear it) the focus will be on getting Eli the help he needs, but this year they stuck with the saying "Defense wins championships"

There's 2 issues with this. 1: we've been dealing with and haven't addressed these issues for years. People (both professional and casual fans) will bring up that we drafted OL high in 3 of the last 4 drafts, and yet all 3 of them have been played out of position at some point (Pugh now, Richburg in 2014, and Flowers was supposed to start at RT). Add to that the fact that we're still sitting here with Newhouse starting on the right side and doing his best impression of a turnstile and we have a recipe for disaster that should've been take care of more diligently since we started addressing the ol back in 2013.

 

2: We still have over $17M in cap space. There could've been plenty more done in free agency this year. Now the quality may not have been the best, but I'm absolutely sure that SOMEONE out there was better than Newhouse. Even if only for a year.

[Tempest]

 

What is it with you and these anecdotes... do we have any reason to believe Pugh can replicate this and become an LT?

 

"Some guy did it awhile ago, therefore anyone can do it" is not valid reasoning.

 

I never said that. I think fans are over-reacting to the preseason play of the offensive line.