Ravens cut Eugene Monroe after trade talks with Giants fall through, report says

[gmenroc]

They cut him and others and created 8 million dollars in dead money. The relationship is sour on both ends.

I've read that...but if I'm Beatty...I want to play more than I want to sit out...and I'd certainly perk up at this point if the Giants called.

[BlueInCanada]

I've read that...but if I'm Beatty...I want to play more than I want to sit out...and I'd certainly perk up at this point if the Giants called.

 

You know you'd think the modern day NFL player would be grateful to be playing a children's game and making millions doing it, but this offseason seems to be the year of whiny bitch players who are threatening to sit out if they dont get $$$

 

Von Miller, Wilkerson, Fitzpatrick, just to name a few.

 

And this is a pretty common trend in the NFL with players.

[NightFire]

Miller should sit out because the Broncos are punking him. He's the SB MVP and they aren't giving him Vernon money. It's disgraceful really.

[gmenroc]

They're not giving him Vernon 'guaranteed' money...I thought the overall was far above Vernon...though I'd have to look again.

 

Yeah, it's not just the money this year...it's the concussion thing. I think a lot of players want to make theirs and then retire before the head injury bug gets them. I suppose it's good that players are looking at long term health and trying to increase their quality of living at 50 by taking precautions at 25.

[Nas]

 

You know you'd think the modern day NFL player would be grateful to be playing a children's game and making millions doing it, but this offseason seems to be the year of whiny bitch players who are threatening to sit out if they dont get $$$

 

Von Miller, Wilkerson, Fitzpatrick, just to name a few.

 

And this is a pretty common trend in the NFL with players.

 

I can't fault the players for seeking money for their services... afterall it's supply and demand... and this "children's game" can leave a player paralyzed for life. How many of us would want to work for under market value? Sure some people say you're making millions already... but $6M is a whole lot better than $4M.... and if I can get that $6M somewhere else or by sitting out, then I will.

[Bigblue25]

 

I can't fault the players for seeking money for their services... afterall it's supply and demand... and this "children's game" can leave a player paralyzed for life. How many of us would want to work for under market value? Sure some people say you're making millions already... but $6M is a whole lot better than $4M.... and if I can get that $6M somewhere else or by sitting out, then I will.

Exactly. Everybody has a skill set and this skill set just happens to be something not a lot of people have. If you went through school and then tried getting a job and said employer told you we think your worth this and your talent/experience suggests otherwise, you wouldn't take the job i.e holdout. We also don't get franchised by employers where they say we don't want to pay you what your worth, but we won't let anyone else pay you either. The owners run the NFL and the players are just pawns

[Mr. P]

If the players hated the franchise tag so much they shouldn't have agreed to it in the collective bargaining agreement.

 

He signs that franchise tag and he's getting close to $15million guaranteed money for one year.

[NightFire]

They're not giving him Vernon 'guaranteed' money...I thought the overall was far above Vernon...though I'd have to look again.

 

Yeah, it's not just the money this year...it's the concussion thing. I think a lot of players want to make theirs and then retire before the head injury bug gets them. I suppose it's good that players are looking at long term health and trying to increase their quality of living at 50 by taking precautions at 25.

 

True but guaranteed part of the contract is the only part that matters. If at game 6 he has a career ending injury the Broncos aren't going to pay the contract out of the kindness of their heart. He was a very big part of that SB win and how much did the Broncos organisation make from that? With Peyton retiring I'd think they should have cap room. With what the Giants payed Vernon I don't see why the Broncos haven't already locked up Miller.

[Bigblue25]

If the players hated the franchise tag so much they shouldn't have agreed to it in the collective bargaining agreement.

 

He signs that franchise tag and he's getting close to $15million guaranteed money for one year.

What if he gets injured that one year and his career is over. The NFLPA wanted to get rid of the franchise tag in the last bargaining agreement

[Mr. P]

What if he gets injured that one year and his career is over. The NFLPA wanted to get rid of the franchise tag in the last bargaining agreement

 

That's a bummer, but he'd still be getting $15million dollars.

[gmenroc]

True but guaranteed part of the contract is the only part that matters. If at game 6 he has a career ending injury the Broncos aren't going to pay the contract out of the kindness of their heart. He was a very big part of that SB win and how much did the Broncos organisation make from that? With Peyton retiring I'd think they should have cap room. With what the Giants payed Vernon I don't see why the Broncos haven't already locked up Miller.

 

No question signing him long term is the right move...but the guaranteed money is obviously the issue. The Broncos don't want to be on the hook for all that guaranteed money if he gets injured and Miller doesn't want less given the same reasoning. It's not about them not having enough money to sign him...it's about the risk involved in doing so.

[BlueInCanada]

 

I can't fault the players for seeking money for their services... afterall it's supply and demand... and this "children's game" can leave a player paralyzed for life. How many of us would want to work for under market value? Sure some people say you're making millions already... but $6M is a whole lot better than $4M.... and if I can get that $6M somewhere else or by sitting out, then I will.

 

See working "under market value" goes out the window when you're making 2 million a year vs 10 million a year, for playing a sport.

 

How much money does a person really need, and how much is just plain greed.

 

After a four or five year contract 100% of the NFL should pretty much be set for life and retirement.

 

How these guys go bankrupt 5 years out of the league is laughable.

 

VonMiller turned down a contract that would of made him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL but turned it down to "guaranteed money issues" but he's also turning down a 15+ million franchise tag.

 

Eventually greed plays a major part with these players.

 

The Giants will probably be seeing the same thing with OBJ.

[Tempest]

 

See working "under market value" goes out the window when you're making 2 million a year vs 10 million a year, for playing a sport.

 

How much money does a person really need, and how much is just plain greed.

 

After a four or five year contract 100% of the NFL should pretty much be set for life and retirement.

 

How these guys go bankrupt 5 years out of the league is laughable.

 

VonMiller turned down a contract that would of made him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL but turned it down to "guaranteed money issues" but he's also turning down a 15+ million franchise tag.

 

Eventually greed plays a major part with these players.

 

The Giants will probably be seeing the same thing with OBJ.

 

You should try looking at this from the player's perspective instead of your own. There are also reasons for not signing the franchise tag for Von Miller that I think you should look into as well. Also take into consideration the medical expenses that come with playing in the NFL.

[Treehugger]

If they just had a fixed % of contracts as guaranteed money it'd save a lot of headache and cap shenanegans.

[Bigblue25]

This is a great article on the franchise tag that I totally agree with

 

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2647399-the-nfl-franchise-tag-must-go-away-and-never-come-back

[Tempest]

If they just had a fixed % of contracts as guaranteed money it'd save a lot of headache and cap shenanegans.

 

NFL football isn't about football anymore...

 

It's all about the Shenanigans

[Dragon]

If they just had a fixed % of contracts as guaranteed money it'd save a lot of headache and cap shenanegans.

I could see the owners agreeing to this but never the players.

[gmenroc]

I could see the owners agreeing to this but never the players.

Agreed...now if you view the % as a cap...maybe you get some agreement. Guaranteed money could be capped at 60% of the contract or so...maybe 75%. It could be tiered even, based on length of contract...a longer contract could allow for a higher cap on the guaranteed portion...owners get the longer deal out of the player, the player gets the higher guaranteed money - seems like it'd be a fair tradeoff for both sides.

[Treehugger]

I could see the owners agreeing to this but never the players.

 

Players would agree if it was high enough.

[NightFire]

No question signing him long term is the right move...but the guaranteed money is obviously the issue. The Broncos don't want to be on the hook for all that guaranteed money if he gets injured and Miller doesn't want less given the same reasoning. It's not about them not having enough money to sign him...it's about the risk involved in doing so.

 

Every player is a risk and the Broncos are playing with fire here. There is a very good chance Miller becomes bitter, and some reports state he already is, and doesn't take anything from them. The Broncos are showing no loyalty for a franchise player and Elway is a bitch for doing so. Can you imagine how'd we'd feel as Giants fans if they had done the same thing to Eli after a SB win? Was Flacco a hall of fame after the Ravens SB? No but they showed class by paying him for his current performance. This whole debacle is on the Broncos.

 

This is a great article on the franchise tag that I totally agree with

 

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2647399-the-nfl-franchise-tag-must-go-away-and-never-come-back

 

Good read. Can Miller sit or would that make no difference for franchise tag?

[gmenroc]

Every player is a risk and the Broncos are playing with fire here. There is a very good chance Miller becomes bitter, and some reports state he already is, and doesn't take anything from them. The Broncos are showing no loyalty for a franchise player and Elway is a bitch for doing so. Can you imagine how'd we'd feel as Giants fans if they had done the same thing to Eli after a SB win? Was Flacco a hall of fame after the Ravens SB? No but they showed class by paying him for his current performance. This whole debacle is on the Broncos.

Oh yeah, it's certainly a dance...the negotiation played by both sides. Miller is a hell of a player, but as an organization, they establish a value for that player and make an offer. Sure, they can sometimes go above or below their established value based on the organization's criteria (position, age of player, etc.), but at the end of the day, they likely don't want to stray too far from the number they were planning on because I have to imagine, that the team doesn't come up with the initial offer arbitrarily. If they've done their homework, they've structured the deal around other players entering contract years, planning future cap space, and so on.

 

Broncos came to the table with an offer..a significant offer. I didn't read into this story all that much, so I don't know if they are hard fast on that initial offer - but it may very well be their starting off point. I wouldn't say that shows no loyalty. Comparing this to Eli makes a good point...but I think the process is the same. The organization presents an initial, albeit lower than what he'll actually get, offer. Eli's camp comes back with a higher offer. They do the dance and work out a deal. I don't think coming in lower than expected is disrespect. Rather, it's prudent and business-wise. Likewise, Miller sitting or not playing or trying to negotiate more...is equally prudent and business-wise from his perspective.

 

Flacco...he's not nearly as good as what he got paid. He's got a strong arm and isn't completely inept. That's about as much as I can say about him. He got paid like a top 10 QB at the time. He didn't deserve it, but because someone was going to pay him that salary, being a SB winner (an overrated stat in my opinion), the Ravens chose to pay him handsomely. They overpaid Flacco. We likely overpaid some guys this offseason on the defensive side (though we won't know until their performance on the field).

 

In a way, yeah, someone is going to pay for Miller, so the Broncos can't insult Miller...but I don't think they did so long as they're not drawing the line in the sand and asking Miller to fall in line. If the Broncos truly want Miller and vice versa, then I think that overrides the pettiness of contract negotiations.

[Dragon]

 

Players would agree if it was high enough.

But there's the catch 22. Is Jameis Winston worth the same guaranteed money as Aaron Rodgers? Absolutely not (and I'm a Winston fan). That's where the owners would reject it.The closest thing I could see is predetermined guarantee tiers and then you run into "but I think I'm worth more than the tier you think I'm in."

[gmenroc]

But there's the catch 22. Is Jameis Winston worth the same guaranteed money as Aaron Rodgers? Absolutely not (and I'm a Winston fan). That's where the owners would reject it.The closest thing I could see is predetermined guarantee tiers and then you run into "but I think I'm worth more than the tier you think I'm in."

That's why the tiers would have to be determined by position, years in NFL, etc....not by opinion, especially a biased one.

[Treehugger]

No need for tiers or any of that shit, just make it 50% guaranteed (or 60 or 70 or whatever) across the board. The idea is remove a stumbling block for negotiations, not add more, and it would get rid of the stupid back-heavy deals that never get fulfilled anyway.

[NightFire]

Oh yeah, it's certainly a dance...the negotiation played by both sides. Miller is a hell of a player, but as an organization, they establish a value for that player and make an offer. Sure, they can sometimes go above or below their established value based on the organization's criteria (position, age of player, etc.), but at the end of the day, they likely don't want to stray too far from the number they were planning on because I have to imagine, that the team doesn't come up with the initial offer arbitrarily. If they've done their homework, they've structured the deal around other players entering contract years, planning future cap space, and so on.

 

Broncos came to the table with an offer..a significant offer. I didn't read into this story all that much, so I don't know if they are hard fast on that initial offer - but it may very well be their starting off point. I wouldn't say that shows no loyalty. Comparing this to Eli makes a good point...but I think the process is the same. The organization presents an initial, albeit lower than what he'll actually get, offer. Eli's camp comes back with a higher offer. They do the dance and work out a deal. I don't think coming in lower than expected is disrespect. Rather, it's prudent and business-wise. Likewise, Miller sitting or not playing or trying to negotiate more...is equally prudent and business-wise from his perspective.

 

Flacco...he's not nearly as good as what he got paid. He's got a strong arm and isn't completely inept. That's about as much as I can say about him. He got paid like a top 10 QB at the time. He didn't deserve it, but because someone was going to pay him that salary, being a SB winner (an overrated stat in my opinion), the Ravens chose to pay him handsomely. They overpaid Flacco. We likely overpaid some guys this offseason on the defensive side (though we won't know until their performance on the field).

 

In a way, yeah, someone is going to pay for Miller, so the Broncos can't insult Miller...but I don't think they did so long as they're not drawing the line in the sand and asking Miller to fall in line. If the Broncos truly want Miller and vice versa, then I think that overrides the pettiness of contract negotiations.

 

I get the motivations but Miller is a potential HOF in his prime. Why the Broncos aren't just blank cheque him is ridiculous. As the article points out he wants Vernon money which isn't a stretch considering Vernon has never made a Pro Bowl. IMHO the Broncos are fucking this up not Miller. Can another team sign a franchised player?