Spags - a thing of the past?

[MikeGL]

I believe the pass rush faults might not even be the personnel. I believe it starts with Spags, doesn't know how to generate a pass rush any longer.

[Allstarjim]

The defense has kept the Giants in every game except for Minnesota. In fact, the defense won the Saints game without much help from the offense. I don't know why Spags is taking heat. They aren't the '85 Bears but they've been doing their job often in difficult circumstances because the offense can't stay on the field and give them a break, and constantly is putting them in bad positions.

 

Lack of pass rush... it was a problem in this game and Minnesota, but there was pass rush in previous games. The sack statistic doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Moreover, Spags is the coach. You pay Vernon $54 million to win one-on-one battles. He didn't win them last night. Same goes for the other guys. They weren't winning the one on ones. The short-comings are on the players, but overall the defense did great. 23 points to the Packers at home is good enough to win with a competent offense. A competent offense also would've limited the Packers opportunities to score 23 points.

 

The secondary especially was very good last night.

 

The Giants are 2-3 because the offense is terrible, and for no other reason.

[Tempest]

Vernon is playing hurt and they did play a very good offensive line in Green Bay. Yeah the pass rush isn't getting there still but there was improvement. I'm not finding a fault in Spagnuolo and his defensive scheme yet. I thought with Vernon and JPP on the ends that more opportunities would open up for Hankins. I haven't heard a peep out of Hankins so far.

[jranieli]

Nice post, I think there is a lot of blame to go around, but I am not putting it on the defense.

[NightFire]

The defense has kept the Giants in every game except for Minnesota. In fact, the defense won the Saints game without much help from the offense. I don't know why Spags is taking heat. They aren't the '85 Bears but they've been doing their job often in difficult circumstances because the offense can't stay on the field and give them a break, and constantly is putting them in bad positions.

 

Lack of pass rush... it was a problem in this game and Minnesota, but there was pass rush in previous games. The sack statistic doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Moreover, Spags is the coach. You pay Vernon $54 million to win one-on-one battles. He didn't win them last night. Same goes for the other guys. They weren't winning the one on ones. The short-comings are on the players, but overall the defense did great. 23 points to the Packers at home is good enough to win with a competent offense. A competent offense also would've limited the Packers opportunities to score 23 points.

 

The secondary especially was very good last night.

 

The Giants are 2-3 because the offense is terrible, and for no other reason.

 

That could have easily been 1-4 with the way the O is playing. Eli used to be great at the deep pass but that's now an issue for him also. OBJ is getting open down field but Eli can't drop those passes in the bucket like he used to.

[fringe]

The defense has kept the Giants in every game except for Minnesota. In fact, the defense won the Saints game without much help from the offense. I don't know why Spags is taking heat. They aren't the '85 Bears but they've been doing their job often in difficult circumstances because the offense can't stay on the field and give them a break, and constantly is putting them in bad positions.

 

Lack of pass rush... it was a problem in this game and Minnesota, but there was pass rush in previous games. The sack statistic doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Moreover, Spags is the coach. You pay Vernon $54 million to win one-on-one battles. He didn't win them last night. Same goes for the other guys. They weren't winning the one on ones. The short-comings are on the players, but overall the defense did great. 23 points to the Packers at home is good enough to win with a competent offense. A competent offense also would've limited the Packers opportunities to score 23 points.

 

The secondary especially was very good last night.

 

The Giants are 2-3 because the offense is terrible, and for no other reason.

The defense played well and was on the field much too long because of an inept offense and Eli looking as bad as I'd ever seen him. I especially like the Defensive backfield, who righted the ship after the first couple of series. However, the tackling remains a big problem on Defense. The signature back breaking play in that "death by 1000 cuts" game was having Cobb squirt away for a 1st down after he was surrounded by LB's. That can't happen. Along with having Eddie Lacey break tackles behind the line repeatedly ... But Spags is putting them where they should be so no complaints there...

[CrazedDogs]

I agree. No complaint with Spags scheme this week. Missed tackles, that I have a problem with.

[Storm]

My concern with Spags defense is that despite having what should be an effective pass rush with just 4 defensive lineman...they don't get the job done. He has to get creative with some blitzes. But he rushed 4 all game.

[Sephiroth]

Dude'll end up as a linebackers coach by next season.

[BlueInCanada]

Didnt want him when he came back with the Gints, still dont want him.

[Lughead]

Nice post, I think there is a lot of blame to go around, but I am not putting it on the defense.

OL is where it starts that is where every play breaks down I have not seen Eli comfortable in the Pocket yet all Season.

[Gman329]

OL is where it starts that is where every play breaks down I have not seen Eli comfortable in the Pocket yet all Season.

 

This. Eli has tried to speed everything up and the timing is all out of whack as a result.

[Storm]

Yet the on screen stat they showed on Monday comparing Manning and Rodgers clearly showed that even when given time, Manning sucked, too. In fact, he was way worse.

[CrazedDogs]

Yet the on screen stat they showed on Monday comparing Manning and Rodgers clearly showed that even when given time, Manning sucked, too. In fact, he was way worse.

That wasn't the time they were given, that was their stats depending on how long they held the ball... Eli wasn't getting that much time, hence the reason his numbers tanked if he held the ball longer.

[Allstarjim]

PFF charted Eli's plays. There were 21 drop backs where he faced NO PRESSURE. On those plays, he was 12-21. That's bad.

[Balloonknot]

While i dont dispute that Jim. I think it may be a product of Eli feeling like he has no time and rushing his throws. Our oline has not done right by Eli

[CrazedDogs]

PFF charted Eli's plays. There were 21 drop backs where he faced NO PRESSURE. On those plays, he was 12-21. That's bad.

No pressure, but the perception of pressure.

[Allstarjim]

While i dont dispute that Jim. I think it may be a product of Eli feeling like he has no time and rushing his throws. Our oline has not done right by Eli

 

 

And they call that pocket awareness. Or lack thereof. Or feeling phantom pressure. None of which are good. Stand in there and deliver... you got a rookie in Dallas and all the say about him is, "look at his poise." Our 13 year veteran should do better in this area, a lot better.

[Gman329]

The kid in Dallas has a tremendous running game and consistently has a clean pocket every time he drops back. Eli can't count on more than 2.5 seconds (or whatever), so he's speeded everything up. When he gets more time, it's almost like a change up. He and the receivers are struggling to get the timing down. I just can't believe that he's suddenly become gunshy or gotten old overnight. I absolutely believe if he had the time that Rodgers had against us last week, when he could have made a sandwich back there, he'd suddenly look a lot better.

 

So it's all connected - with opposing defenses playing cover 2, with both safeties deep, our receivers are having trouble getting open. You force them out of that with a strong running game......which also slows the pass rush.....which makes Eli dangerous again.

 

But, I guess mainly because the of the OL, we can't run the ball.

[Nas]

The defense has kept the Giants in every game except for Minnesota. In fact, the defense won the Saints game without much help from the offense. I don't know why Spags is taking heat. They aren't the '85 Bears but they've been doing their job often in difficult circumstances because the offense can't stay on the field and give them a break, and constantly is putting them in bad positions.

 

Lack of pass rush... it was a problem in this game and Minnesota, but there was pass rush in previous games. The sack statistic doesn't tell the whole story.

 

Moreover, Spags is the coach. You pay Vernon $54 million to win one-on-one battles. He didn't win them last night. Same goes for the other guys. They weren't winning the one on ones. The short-comings are on the players, but overall the defense did great. 23 points to the Packers at home is good enough to win with a competent offense. A competent offense also would've limited the Packers opportunities to score 23 points.

 

The secondary especially was very good last night.

 

The Giants are 2-3 because the offense is terrible, and for no other reason.

 

The defense shit the bed against GB... It seems every time JPP and OV were double teamed and no other player was able to penetrate that wall to get to Rogers... that's solely on Spags... and I'm one of his biggest supporters...

[Allstarjim]

I think all this talk about the pressure is overblown. And it's not about the OL exclusively. Remember the sack that Paul Perkins allowed by not picking up the blitz? Eli ran the ball once in these no pressure situations last Sunday. Sacked 4 times. So 22-40 pass plays he felt no pressure. On Blitzes, that means he should be able to find a favorable matchup.

 

Eli has had a history of performing very well when blitzed and when given time. If he's not doing that well right now, and we know he's not, then he isn't doing his job. The OL isn't at fault for that. It's the NFL, you are going to need to get the ball out under duress.

 

 

I'm not sure why he gets a pass for being terrible if all conditions aren't perfect all the time. No other QB gets the bar lowered like this when evaluating their play, and the great ones never need to.

[CrazedDogs]

Jim, apparently you haven't discussed Andrew Luck lately. You want to talk lowered standards, that guy's getting a pass like nobody else (and I totally get it, the rest of that team is pure ass).

 

I think Eli gets a bit of a pass because he has been so good under duress in the past. So we see him now and it just doesn't quite fit with what we've come to expect - surely there must be some other cause, we think. Maybe he's a little hurt, maybe his rhythm is off from getting pressured too much. Only time will tell.... unless he's just hit the wall, his play should even out here soon. Not like him to not get his head right if its a rhythm thing, and if its a health thing, he's sure been going out of his way to avoid taking any hits so he should be healthy soon too.

[Allstarjim]

Jim, apparently you haven't discussed Andrew Luck lately. You want to talk lowered standards, that guy's getting a pass like nobody else (and I totally get it, the rest of that team is pure ass).

 

I think Eli gets a bit of a pass because he has been so good under duress in the past. So we see him now and it just doesn't quite fit with what we've come to expect - surely there must be some other cause, we think. Maybe he's a little hurt, maybe his rhythm is off from getting pressured too much. Only time will tell.... unless he's just hit the wall, his play should even out here soon. Not like him to not get his head right if its a rhythm thing, and if its a health thing, he's sure been going out of his way to avoid taking any hits so he should be healthy soon too.

CD, you seriously want to bring up a guy who is on pace to get sacked 60 times this year but has nearly 1500 yards and 10 TDs vs only 3 INTs? While completing about 64% of his passes? CD, the differrlence between Eli and Luck is that Luck is performing in spite of his OL not doing their job, and his defense sucks so bad they aren't stopping anyone. Luck is actually the bright spot on that team.

[Sephiroth]

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand the "what's wrong with Eli" arguments.

 

Eli's been streaky his entire career. For four weeks he'll throw for 400 yards and 3TDs a game... for three weeks he'll throw for 175 and two picks a game. "Consistently inconsistent."

 

Eli is playing like Eli. We're fortunate he's gotten on hot streaks in the playoffs twice.

[CrazedDogs]

CD, you seriously want to bring up a guy who is on pace to get sacked 60 times this year but has nearly 1500 yards and 10 TDs vs only 3 INTs? While completing about 64% of his passes? CD, the differrlence between Eli and Luck is that Luck is performing in spite of his OL not doing their job, and his defense sucks so bad they aren't stopping anyone. Luck is actually the bright spot on that team.

 

oh, he's a hell of a player, I know. His numbers sucked hard in 2015. This year he's facing prevent D for three quarters. Football stats are all a product of circumstance.