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"LEAVE SHURMUR ALONE!"


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#1 BlueInCanada

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 04:21 PM

As much as he looks like a grade 7 math teacher, the players love this guy, something we never seen with MacAttack.

 

 

Giants' Jabrill Peppers: Don't blame Pat Shurmur -- blame the players
Oct 28, 2019
  •  
    Jordan RaananESPN Staff Writer

DETROIT -- It was Accountability Sunday for the New York Giants' players after their 31-26 loss to the Detroit Lions.

They claim the fingers being pointed toward coach Pat Shurmur are unwarranted. The 2-6 record at the midway point of the season is on the players.

"Hell no, that isn't fair," safety Jabrill Peppers said after the defeat. "He's putting us in positions to make plays. We're just not making them in crucial situations.

NFL PrimeTime on ESPN+

Chris Berman and Tom Jackson recap the weekend's games with extended highlights and analysis.

The show will stream live at 7:30 p.m. ET each Sunday during the 2019 season and will be available on demand each week until late Wednesday night. Watch on ESPN+

"Never going to let our coach fall on the sword. Those guys work their ass off, give us great game plans week in and week out, man. It's up to us to execute. [We're] grown-ass men. We can't keep saying the same s--- every Sunday. That s--- don't fall on none of the coaches. That's us. It starts with us."

It's why the Giants plan to have a players-only meeting on Monday. The hope is that it will spark a turnaround, because this season is quickly spiraling out of control. The Giants have lost four straight.

But that hasn't caused those in the locker room to doubt their coaches. Tight end Evan Engram believes Shurmur still has everyone's full attention and respect.

"One hundred percent. No doubt about it!" he said.

Tight end Rhett Ellison agreed. He thinks the scrutiny Shurmur has come under lately is unfair, because the players have not been doing their jobs.

Safety Jabrill Peppers and the Giants have endured a tough first half of the season, including their loss Sunday against Detroit. Raj Mehta/USA Today Sports

Defensive captain Alec Ogletree said it was "all 53 players" who called for the players-only meeting that will occur Monday morning. Engram thought it was necessary because everybody had to look at themselves in the mirror.

Peppers expressed a similar sentiment.

"Just us because we have to fix this problem," he said. "It's not a coach. Those guys work extremely hard. The game plans they give us, we know everything that they were going to do -- except for that throwback -- that was a good play. Everything that they showed us, those guys bust their ass watching tape giving us the best game plan, the tendencies, all the ... formations offensively and defensively.

"It's just up to us to make plays. They can't play for us. They can just put us in the proper position to make those plays and they do a hell of a job of that. We have to take ownership of that and start making plays."

Even the rookies.

"No slack gets cut. What is it, eight games -- you're not a rookie no more. After the preseason, you're not a rookie no more," Peppers said. "We'll take mistakes that you play hard and things like that, but we're not cutting slack for anybody, from the oldest guy on the team to the youngest guy. You out there, you expected to do a job at a high level. And you do that job. There are a lot of people depending on you to do that job."

So if it's not the coaches and it's on the players, one must again wonder whether the Giants have the right collection of players. That falls under the authority of general manager Dave Gettleman.

The results seem to indicate he's not close to finding the right combination, especially on defense. The Giants (2-6) allowed five pass plays of more than 20 yards. They allowed two 40-plus-yard touchdown passes.

Even their prized possession, star running back Saquon Barkley, nonchalantly ran after a backward pass from Daniel Jones and failed to tackle former Giant Devon Kennard as the linebacker scooped up the ball and returned it 13 yards for the game's first touchdown.

Barkley provided a lesson in accountability afterward when asked whether he had any regrets about the play.

"That's not who I am. That's not the type of player I am," said Barkley, who was also critical of his blocking on the play. "That's not the reason I'm captain. I've got to have better effort on that play."

And that capped off Accountability Sunday.

 

https://www.espn.com...ve-daniel-jones



#2 UK-Giantsfan

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 06:39 PM

True ........ but if we go 4-12 hes gone.

I think we need to get to 6-10 or better for him to survive ( and even then he will be on the hot seat immediately in Sept )

#3 Drizzle

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 08:46 PM

True ........ but if we go 4-12 hes gone.

I think we need to get to 6-10 or better for him to survive ( and even then he will be on the hot seat immediately in Sept )


This will not happen. The team is rebuilding. They arent going to tear it down with a new coach that wants players, quarterbacks, that fit his own scheme.

#4 Vendetta

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 09:26 PM

One thing he has going for him is that Daniel Jones does appear to be developing nicely under him. Not that it's all because of Schurmer, but if you can't ignore the progress.

#5 BlueInCanada

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 10:04 PM

Shurmur/Getty/Jones are basically tied together at this point.

 

If Jones is still an NFL starter in four years, then Shurmur and Getty still have jobs regardless of record.

 

If Jones is being regarded as "one of the biggest blunders for the Giants" then they are all gone.



#6 Sephiroth

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:12 PM

Shurmur and Gettleman are both sticking around until the end of next year, minimum.  I think they probably have a four-year shelf life. 

 

After that point, Belichick is going to come out of retirement to take control of the Giants... he'll retire after the unbeaten season this year. 



#7 Tempest

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:07 PM

"Hell no, that isn't fair," safety Jabrill Peppers said after the defeat. "He's putting us in positions to make plays. We're just not making them in crucial situations.

 

 

 

LOL

 

NY Giants are 2-6, the time for fair has passed.  These guys are't just failing to make the play in crucial situations, they are failing to make a play on every other play.  It is not one guy failing, it is multiple players failing during the course of the game.



#8 Drizzle

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 01:22 AM

Theyve been put in positions to win every game. To me, that still points to a roster that isnt fully rebuilt and is young. Its not a bad thing that your team of rookies on defense is still competitive and playing hard. The wins will come. Probably not til next year, though. I still stand by the fact that I like the direction this team is headed in.

#9 CrazedDogs

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 10:19 AM

there have been several game management choices that have left me shaking my head, but I have to agree with the sentiment that the games are being lost on the field. There are just too many holes on the damn roster. Only as strong as your weakest link. 



#10 Iceman

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 02:05 PM

True ........ but if we go 4-12 hes gone.

I think we need to get to 6-10 or better for him to survive ( and even then he will be on the hot seat immediately in Sept )

 

We dont want that happening. Danny Dimes is Shurmur's QB and he needs to be with him for a few more years atleast - a new coach and Coordinators put us back on the drawing board. Hopefully Giants finish the season strong....



#11 Sephiroth

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:06 PM

Theyve been put in positions to win every game. To me, that still points to a roster that isnt fully rebuilt and is young. Its not a bad thing that your team of rookies on defense is still competitive and playing hard. The wins will come. Probably not til next year, though. I still stand by the fact that I like the direction this team is headed in.

 

 

there have been several game management choices that have left me shaking my head, but I have to agree with the sentiment that the games are being lost on the field. There are just too many holes on the damn roster. Only as strong as your weakest link. 

 

Carl Banks was saying  on the podcast this week that it's a communication issue.  Like, when you're in Cover-4 the whole idea is that you're defending against the deep pass... there's no reason why corners should be biting on the 8 yard square in while somebody is running free behind them.  Corners have to know what the idea behind that defense is and why you're running it, and be smart enough to do the right thing.

 

Also, zone defense isn't just "stay in a spot," you have to be cognizant of what's happening and who's coming into your zone and trail them to a certain degree, which the Giants defensive backs are not doing.  He described it as being "man elements to zone defense." 



#12 UK-Giantsfan

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 05:16 PM

I still think if we only win 1 or 2 more games and go 4-12 Shurmur is on very thin ice indeed. He might survive but this is New York !
Dont get me wrong I want him to stay and succeed. I think we could have a decent team next year , but can you imagine what the NY media would be like if we go 2-6 or 1-7 down the stretch.

#13 Sephiroth

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 06:52 PM

I still think if we only win 1 or 2 more games and go 4-12 Shurmur is on very thin ice indeed. He might survive but this is New York !
Dont get me wrong I want him to stay and succeed. I think we could have a decent team next year , but can you imagine what the NY media would be like if we go 2-6 or 1-7 down the stretch.

 

A lot of it would depend on how they went 4-12.  If it's a bad season but the team sticks together, they stay. 

If it's a MacAdoo situation where he's lost the locker room, he's gone. 



#14 Nas

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:35 PM

True ........ but if we go 4-12 hes gone.

I think we need to get to 6-10 or better for him to survive ( and even then he will be on the hot seat immediately in Sept )

 

Fortunately our FO isn't about making changes every other year... besides firing Schurmer is them admitting they hired the wrong guy... which is premature at this point.   Our problem is mainly personnel... we don't have a good OL.. it's atrocious... and we have no DEs either... we're rebuilding...



#15 Drizzle

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:43 PM

Just saw field yates tweet noting that the Giants rookies have played over 2,900 snaps over the season...over 500 more than the next closest team. Thats impressive.

#16 BlueInCanada

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 07:53 PM

Just saw field yates tweet noting that the Giants rookies have played over 2,900 snaps over the season...over 500 more than the next closest team. Thats impressive.

 

Imagine if Connelly didnt tear his ACL and Love could push Bethea out of his spot.

 

Nice the young guys are getting the experience, but also kinda worrying that this roster is void of any real depth/talent that the rookies have to contribute so heavily;y.



#17 NeMesiS

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 04:10 PM

I didnt think it was possible... I swear it seems like the OL is playing worse than last year. Solder has been a complete freaking bust! Remmer has been ok at best and Halapio is awful as predicted.

I honestly feel the defense is going to be ok. I know, I know... they are awful. But for reason I feel a good foundation is there.

#18 BlueInCanada

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 04:54 PM

I didnt think it was possible... I swear it seems like the OL is playing worse than last year. Solder has been a complete freaking bust! Remmer has been ok at best and Halapio is awful as predicted.

I honestly feel the defense is going to be ok. I know, I know... they are awful. But for reason I feel a good foundation is there.

 

The defence isnt too far off just needs a solid pass rusher and another starting LB besides Ogletree and Connelly, once these rookies can get some experience and stay healthy, we are getting Beal back finally as well.

 

Dex is graded as one of the highest rookies out of the draft.

 

Baker has really improved after his hellish rookie start in September.

 

Bellantine is showing versatility all over the field and on ST mostly.

 

Would like to see Love get more work since he's projected to play a big role at safety but his time will come and hopefully he steps up.

 

We just have a mixture of a serious lack of experience in the secondary, and there isnt any playmaker on this defence to step up and make a play, or any leaders for that matter.

 

We don't have a DE who makes the QB worry about holding the ball to long, or a LB who's going to fill the gap or make the QB think twice about throwing over the middle.

 

One or two more pieces and another season of experience and this defence might be something to be feared.

 

Hopefully Betty is the guy who can keep it all together and make it work, would hate to have to replace DCs and rebuild it all.



#19 Tempest

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 09:50 PM

I didnt think it was possible... I swear it seems like the OL is playing worse than last year. Solder has been a complete freaking bust! Remmer has been ok at best and Halapio is awful as predicted.

I honestly feel the defense is going to be ok. I know, I know... they are awful. But for reason I feel a good foundation is there.

 

The offensive line is playing better, the QB is holding the ball for too long.



#20 BlueInCanada

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 09:58 PM

 

The offensive line is playing better, the QB is holding the ball for too long.

 

Yep.

 

Oline went from bottom of the NFL to middle of the pack.

 

I think it was PFF that was showing that Jones has had the most time to throw out of any QB in week 8.

 

The guards have graded really well, Remmers has been slightly above average and HiphopLapio has been below average.

 

Solder though has been graded in the lower of all starting LTs this year, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see him gone next year with his replacement either in the draft or FA, think he's on pace to give up the most QB pressure this year, once again according to PFF.



#21 CrazedDogs

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 11:37 PM

 
The offensive line is playing better, the QB is holding the ball for too long.


Yeah, he often takes an extra little hitch or stutter step as he makes his decision. But that's just being a rookie. It's encouraging that despite the hesitation, his time to release is too slow for a poor OL, but still respectable.

#22 Drizzle

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 01:34 AM

 
Yep.
 
Oline went from bottom of the NFL to middle of the pack.
 
I think it was PFF that was showing that Jones has had the most time to throw out of any QB in week 8.
 
The guards have graded really well, Remmers has been slightly above average and HiphopLapio has been below average.
 
Solder though has been graded in the lower of all starting LTs this year, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see him gone next year with his replacement either in the draft or FA, think he's on pace to give up the most QB pressure this year, once again according to PFF.


Yeah I was going to post the PFF stat, too. People clamoring for Nate Solder to be traded forget what it was like with Ereck Flowers. Solder is light years better than anything weve had in the past 5 years.

#23 CrazedDogs

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 05:41 PM

Yeah I was going to post the PFF stat, too. People clamoring for Nate Solder to be traded forget what it was like with Ereck Flowers. Solder is light years better than anything weve had in the past 5 years.

 

you and I see Solder's performance very, very differently then. Especially this year. 

 

Not much daylight between 2019 Solder and 2017 Flowers. 

 

Main difference is consistency. Solder is consistently bad. Flowers would have good plays and then turn it around with utterly abysmal, wtf is he doing out there kind of plays. 

 

So at least you can scheme around a guy like Solder. But when you're dealing with a guy who's performing at a replacement level, its roughly even odds the guy on the bench is just as good. 



#24 Tempest

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 09:38 PM

Yeah I was going to post the PFF stat, too. People clamoring for Nate Solder to be traded forget what it was like with Ereck Flowers. Solder is light years better than anything weve had in the past 5 years.

 

 

Didn't take very long for people to forget.  

 

On a side note, our former starting RT Chad Wheeler is sitting on the practice squad for the Seahawks.



#25 Iceman

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 07:00 AM

Solder historically has sucked for the 1st half of every season he has played for us. The second half has been more than solid. Lets hope with the whole array of weapons back, Solder gets a fire lit under his ass. DJ should hold his fucking facemask and give him an earful the next time Solder gets manhandled and DJ gets blindsided.






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