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Having a tough time finding the silver lining in this draft.


Sephiroth

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i just don't think going into the draft many people said we needed more pass-catchers, D-line, and backup quarterback...

 

I would have loved to have seen a pro-bowl LT in this draft, but I do not know if there was one to be had... and that is still the teams glaring weakness that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

Pass catching Tight End was certainly a need, how many passes went to Will Tye this year? Imagine those passes going to someone who would actually catch the ball and then be able to do something once he got it.

 

I was hoping to see a big DT to fill in the hole from Hankins.

 

I wake up with night terrors about seeing Geno Smith taking a snap in a real game, shit I am jumpy about the thought of seeing him preseason take snaps.

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Dude is a WR not TE. I watch three game films of him. Not once did I see his hands down in the dirt. Poor blocking.

 

oh I saw him in line more than a few times. His blocking varied from abysmal to nothing-to-write-home-about when he was lined up as a classic TE.

 

I thought he blocked much more effectively when he had more space to work with, from the slot or from motion in the backfield.

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What other positions would people have liked in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and who would you have chosen? I can see the argument for LB and OL over TE and QB, but DT was a clear need as well, and was fulfilled in the 2nd round. I like the 1st and 2nd round picks, but I'm a bit ambivalent about choosing a QB in the 3rd.

 

Going by positions of need, my alternatives in the 3rd round would have been OL Issac Asiata, Dorian Johnson, or LB Anthony Walker Jr. Some of those guys went in the 5th, so trading down maybe.

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I'm happy with Engram but for me in the first I probably would've taken Ramczyk. In the 2nd I was thinking Wormley would be the pick but I'm happy with Tomlinson. In the third Jourdan Lewis and Samaje Perine were really sticking out to me.

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What other positions would people have liked in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and who would you have chosen?

1st - in a draft deep at TE, I wouldn't have taken a one-dimensional TE in the 1st. I'd have taken Forrest Lamp, Kevin King, or Ruben Foster if I was feeling lucky... Taylor and Lewis both had issues too and that turned out pretty well... hell, Burfict has issues and is light years ahead of our best LB. All three of those guys shore up a weakness and are good players.

 

2nd - passing Cunningham here is just absolutely fucking inexcusable. I can't wrap my head around it. I'd have also been ok with Dawkins or Moton. But if you can get a three down MLB that's going to be the QB of your defense at this pick, you fucking take him. BJ Goodson can be your backup and we finally get rid of Mark Herzlich.

 

3rd Samanje Perine. You want more physical? You got more physical. I'd also be ok with Dorian Johnson if there had been no OL to this point.

 

4th - George Kittle. Probably the best all around TE in this draft, and definitely the best blocker. Does three things good instead of one thing great.

 

5th Caleb Brantley. Go fucking crazy and take a chance. We rehabilitated Kerry Collins, Christian Peter, etc. Take a shot with an actual 3-technique.

 

So my perfect draft would have been:

 

Lamp (need... could shore up RT or RG)

Cunningham (holy fucking need and an actual three down player)

Perine (physical)

Kittle (physical AND need)

Brantley (physical and need)

 

I think that would have given us a well rounded team that can do more than run 11 personnel every snap. I know BiC and others have said that's not the MacAdoo way and he's right, but getting a yard on third-and-one is never going to go out of style. Running out the clock with a four point lead will always be important. I think Engram will be a nice player but I don't think we needed more finesse on the team,and again, I'm not really sure what these guys bring that we either really needed or didn't already have.

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I would have loved to have seen a pro-bowl LT in this draft, but I do not know if there was one to be had... and that is still the teams glaring weakness that somehow needs to be addressed.

 

Pass catching Tight End was certainly a need, how many passes went to Will Tye this year? Imagine those passes going to someone who would actually catch the ball and then be able to do something once he got it.

 

I was hoping to see a big DT to fill in the hole from Hankins.

 

I wake up with night terrors about seeing Geno Smith taking a snap in a real game, shit I am jumpy about the thought of seeing him preseason take snaps.

I don't think you're going to get a good LT at 23 in pretty much any draft. I think Engram is going to light it up as a pass catcher but that's only 1/3 of what you get out of that position in a perfect world.

 

I know the popular mantra these days is that "power football is dead" but if you look at who's represented in the last 5 Super Bowls, that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, it seems just the opposite.

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Seph, DT was the biggest need on this team. We had, ABSOLUTELY HAD, to draft a DT, or else overpay for some other team's cast off in the second round of free agency. The Giants don't have the benefit of hindsight to wait and see if a good DT is going to be available in the 5th round. Caleb Brantley may have Mixon'ed a girl. You can't have that on your team, especially after the Josh Brown thing... that was a circus and there was no real evidence the abuse with Brown was even physically violent. Even the Browns have said they may still cut him. Finally, the Giants just don't get guys with really bad character flags. We aren't the Cowboys. That's why the Cowboys have to live with an early 2nd round pick and his 1 career sack and 14 games played in 2 seasons with zero starts potentially never playing another down in the NFL again. You can't take a chance like Brantley with the biggest need on the team. The Giants aren't going into the season with Jay Bromley as the starting DT. Couldn't happen.

 

Cunningham? I read he had an AWFUL interview and really moved down the Giants board, and Tomlinson had one of the best interviews in years... and the Alabama coaching staff RAVED about him and said he should've gotten a lot more attention than he was getting. Charles Davis said Tomlinson was the best player on the field for Alabama in the National Championship Game against Clemson. Think about that... a defense with Reuben Foster, Jonathan Allen, Tim Williams, Ryan Anderson, Marlon Humphrey, and Eddie Jackson... all drafted players this year. Tomlinson was accepted to Harvard... he's smart, has already overcome tremendous adversity in his life, and a very accomplished and clean football player that plugs a major hole. Despite what you may think, there is no hole at LB THIS YEAR. We have plenty of good linebackers under contract... Casillas, Keenan Robinson, Goodson, and Kennard... and yes, they are good linebackers. We'll have to do something about the position before the 2018 season, but this year we can go to battle with the guys already in the room. We couldn't go to battle with Jay Bromley or Robert Thomas next to Snacks.

 

I'm a fan of Perine and I think he would've been the pick if he made it to us in the 4th... but he didn't, and Gallman is a great fallback option. I'm telling you, he's a real player, NFL ready right now, much like Perine.

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1st - in a draft deep at TE, I wouldn't have taken a one-dimensional TE in the 1st. I'd have taken Forrest Lamp, Kevin King, or Ruben Foster if I was feeling lucky... Taylor and Lewis both had issues too and that turned out pretty well... hell, Burfict has issues and is light years ahead of our best LB. All three of those guys shore up a weakness and are good players.

 

2nd - passing Cunningham here is just absolutely fucking inexcusable. I can't wrap my head around it. I'd have also been ok with Dawkins or Moton. But if you can get a three down MLB that's going to be the QB of your defense at this pick, you fucking take him. BJ Goodson can be your backup and we finally get rid of Mark Herzlich.

 

3rd Samanje Perine. You want more physical? You got more physical. I'd also be ok with Dorian Johnson if there had been no OL to this point.

 

4th - George Kittle. Probably the best all around TE in this draft, and definitely the best blocker. Does three things good instead of one thing great.

 

5th Caleb Brantley. Go fucking crazy and take a chance. We rehabilitated Kerry Collins, Christian Peter, etc. Take a shot with an actual 3-technique.

 

So my perfect draft would have been:

 

Lamp (need... could shore up RT or RG)

Cunningham (holy fucking need and an actual three down player)

Perine (physical)

Kittle (physical AND need)

Brantley (physical and need)

 

I think that would have given us a well rounded team that can do more than run 11 personnel every snap. I know BiC and others have said that's not the MacAdoo way and he's right, but getting a yard on third-and-one is never going to go out of style. Running out the clock with a four point lead will always be important. I think Engram will be a nice player but I don't think we needed more finesse on the team,and again, I'm not really sure what these guys bring that we either really needed or didn't already have.

 

Howard and Njoku aren't finished products and aren't good blockers.

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I disagree that DT was the biggest need Jim, and certainly not a 1-tech like we already have. I'd say OL, LB, TE... and then I'd say DT and RB were tied for 4th. Taking Brantley in the 5th is light years different than Randy Gregory in the 2nd; 5th round picks frequently don't pan out so if you roll the dice and lose, it's not a big deal.

 

At the end of the day, I'm just not a fan of taking one-dimensional finesse guys and role players over multi-dimensional physical players and full time starters. I hope Tomlinson can add to his game and be more than just a run stuffer (I know he had a lot of pressures this season) but I guess we'll see.

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So you'd be ok rolling into the season with Jay Bromley and Robert Thomas as your starter? Tomlinson can play 1-Tech, he can play 3-Tech. He's not just a regular nose.

 

How do you think that LB was a bigger need. We have a need there in 2018, sure, but we have the same linebackers as last year minus Kelvin Sheppard who barely did anything last year. Casillas, Robinson, and Kennard played well last year, and they are still on the team this year, so how was it a need?

 

I'm not arguing that we could use players at those spots, but you're claiming that those positions were bigger needs than DT, the position where we lost our starter to free agency and don't have backups with much upside. By definition, if you lose a starter and have a significant drop off in talent, that's a definite need. At tight end, we just drafted Adams last year, who flashed when given opportunities, and signed Rhett Ellison. So that wasn't a need at all... we definitely could've rolled into the season with those guys. OL is debatable. LT needs to improve, but they signed a RT/RG in Fluker, and Flowers was going to be given every chance to hold on to his spot at LT anyway. But DT... we run a 4-3, Seph. That means we need two good DT's, especially when we play in a division with Ezekiel Elliott.

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1st - in a draft deep at TE, I wouldn't have taken a one-dimensional TE in the 1st. I'd have taken Forrest Lamp, Kevin King, or Ruben Foster if I was feeling lucky... Taylor and Lewis both had issues too and that turned out pretty well... hell, Burfict has issues and is light years ahead of our best LB. All three of those guys shore up a weakness and are good players.

 

2nd - passing Cunningham here is just absolutely fucking inexcusable. I can't wrap my head around it. I'd have also been ok with Dawkins or Moton. But if you can get a three down MLB that's going to be the QB of your defense at this pick, you fucking take him. BJ Goodson can be your backup and we finally get rid of Mark Herzlich.

 

3rd Samanje Perine. You want more physical? You got more physical. I'd also be ok with Dorian Johnson if there had been no OL to this point.

 

4th - George Kittle. Probably the best all around TE in this draft, and definitely the best blocker. Does three things good instead of one thing great.

 

5th Caleb Brantley. Go fucking crazy and take a chance. We rehabilitated Kerry Collins, Christian Peter, etc. Take a shot with an actual 3-technique.

 

So my perfect draft would have been:

 

Lamp (need... could shore up RT or RG)

Cunningham (holy fucking need and an actual three down player)

Perine (physical)

Kittle (physical AND need)

Brantley (physical and need)

 

I think that would have given us a well rounded team that can do more than run 11 personnel every snap. I know BiC and others have said that's not the MacAdoo way and he's right, but getting a yard on third-and-one is never going to go out of style. Running out the clock with a four point lead will always be important. I think Engram will be a nice player but I don't think we needed more finesse on the team,and again, I'm not really sure what these guys bring that we either really needed or didn't already have.

 

I don't agree with calling Engram one dimentional... I think he's the OBJ of TE's... hands down our WRs and him will be lethal... Just think Jordan Reed... only faster... a lot faster.

 

The 2nd round pick is hard to argue.. sure some of us wanted an OT and some wanted a LB... evidently the FO thought a DT is also needed and we went after one... Another reason it's hard to argue is because our LBs are not bad... and given the fact the NFL has evolved where we rely on LBs less... We addressed the OL issues in FA... sure the pieces would have to fall in place but that's true for a rookie as well.

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I guess we just look at it differently. I see 3 playmakers on the D-line. I see none at linebacker. Adequate players perhaps, but nothing more. I'd be perfectly fine with Bromley and Thomas if it means we get a sideline to sideline, 3-down MLB. I understand we have to worry about the Zeke Elliots of the league, but that's what MLBs are for too, no?

 

I'm not sure we got much better on the O-line. Fluker was drafted high but looks to be a bust. Maybe he'll pan out, but it looks like we didn't get much better there either. And there's still no FB or a second blocking TE to help in the run game.

 

Again, we'll see. The Rams won a lot of games for a while with a finesse offense, but that was a long time ago.

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Nas... the only reason Giants fans think this LB group is good is because we're so accustomed to awful. Kennard is decent. Robinson is a pretty good cover LB but is not a thumper and isn't very physical. Again... a one-dimensional guy. Casillas makes two or three really impressive plays early in the season and it makes everyone forget the 2-3 bad angles he takes each game. He's should be a backup.

 

At least it's not the Williams/Herzlich/Paysinger line up we were trotting out a few years back but I wouldn't call this group good either.

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I guess we just look at it differently. I see 3 playmakers on the D-line. I see none at linebacker. Adequate players perhaps, but nothing more. I'd be perfectly fine with Bromley and Thomas if it means we get a sideline to sideline, 3-down MLB. I understand we have to worry about the Zeke Elliots of the league, but that's what MLBs are for too, no?

 

I'm not sure we got much better on the O-line. Fluker was drafted high but looks to be a bust. Maybe he'll pan out, but it looks like we didn't get much better there either. And there's still no FB or a second blocking TE to help in the run game.

 

Again, we'll see. The Rams won a lot of games for a while with a finesse offense, but that was a long time ago.

 

Oh I agree we're passed due for a stud MLB... But it's just hard to get mad at picking a DT there either...

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What other positions would people have liked in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and who would you have chosen? I can see the argument for LB and OL over TE and QB, but DT was a clear need as well, and was fulfilled in the 2nd round. I like the 1st and 2nd round picks, but I'm a bit ambivalent about choosing a QB in the 3rd.

 

Going by positions of need, my alternatives in the 3rd round would have been OL Issac Asiata, Dorian Johnson, or LB Anthony Walker Jr. Some of those guys went in the 5th, so trading down maybe.

Antonio Garcia was taken two picks before Webb and the next tackle after that was Julie'n Davenport both those guys were not going to be an instant upgrade to the Oline and would have just added another project for Solari. I didn't think Bolles was an upgrade over Flowers, one positive with Flowers is he's only 23 that's two younger than Bolles and Bolles has one year of D1 experience. Ramcyzk has the hip and same thing he's older with one year D1 starting experience. Johnson you could of made a case for who went in round 4, but they seem set at guard and he has some thing with his liver that caused him to drop. So I agree there wasn't a lineman worth taking

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And as far as LB for Seph I agree Avery Moss was a bit of a reach in the 5th...Marquel Lee LB Wake who I liked went to the Raiders one pick later. They probably could of got Moss in the sixth or at worse Ifeadi Odenigbo in the sixth

 

Highlights of Lee

 

 

Tape of Lee

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I guess we just look at it differently. I see 3 playmakers on the D-line. I see none at linebacker. Adequate players perhaps, but nothing more. I'd be perfectly fine with Bromley and Thomas if it means we get a sideline to sideline, 3-down MLB. I understand we have to worry about the Zeke Elliots of the league, but that's what MLBs are for too, no?

 

I'm not sure we got much better on the O-line. Fluker was drafted high but looks to be a bust. Maybe he'll pan out, but it looks like we didn't get much better there either. And there's still no FB or a second blocking TE to help in the run game.

 

Again, we'll see. The Rams won a lot of games for a while with a finesse offense, but that was a long time ago.

The point about LBs is partially true... only partially because I believe Keenan Robinson was a solid and consistent starter for us at LB. Casillas and Kennard are meh, to your point.

 

I still don't get the point about the 2nd blocking TE being a need. In the modern game, power sets like that are a rarity, and we already have one blocking TE. The bigger threat and factor is having a great receiving TE who's adaqeute at blocking, and can stay on the field all three downs to create mismatches and keep defenses off balance.

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The point about LBs is partially true... only partially because I believe Keenan Robinson was a solid and consistent starter for us at LB.

 

I still don't get the point about the 2nd blocking TE being a need. In the modern game, power sets like that are a rarity, and we already have one blocking TE. The bigger threat and factor is having a great receiving TE who's adaqeute at blocking, and can stay on the field all three downs to create mismatches and keep defenses off balance.

 

The modern game still needs to run the ball in the redzone, something we were pitiful at last season.

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