The Giants 2016 vanilla play calliing

[Lughead]

http://cover32.com/2017/01/16/internal-complaints-giants-offense/ So, what us in store for us in 2017?

[Tempest]

Crap blog on the effectiveness of the offensive.

[MikeGL]

Didn't need a blog to see this. It was pretty obvious.

[Gman329]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but I don't think it's the play calling as much as the play designs. Opposing defenses, I believe, were getting tipped off to what was being run by personnel groupings, formations and down and distance...and especially on running plays, as the article mentions. That's why SO many of our runs were buried before they got started. Also think the route trees our receivers ran were pedestrian and yes, vanilla. It's harder to beat your man in any assignment - blocking, running a route, whatever - if he has a pretty good idea, presnap, what you're doing.

 

Of course, a subpar OL will limit how "creative" you can get. Let's not forget that factor.

[GA4M]

The team is still hot/cold. but even the Mighty Cowpies got knocked out by the same team. having a good QB can go a long ass way as you can see.

[NightFire]

Sure bu Dlaas managed more than 13 points. The Giants O has been abysmal all season and McAdoo refused to change anything up. I forget the stat but 95% of Giants' O formation was exactly the same while the league average is 45%. The Packers don't have an all world O line either but they improvise and play to Rodgers strengths. The Giants O is a classic case or round hole and square peg. If you jam it hard enough it'll fit...or not.

 

The D saved McAdoo's job because without that this team would be drafting top 10 again.

[gmenroc]

If the fan can predict the play, what do you think the defenses who study this shit daily can do? I've said it before, McAdoo was/is expected to bring that Green Bay playbook to New York. Watch Green Bay...just fucking watch them. There are play designs that specifically get a WR wide open. Sometimes its for 5 yards, other times 15. Doesn't matter. Whether it's setting a pick to get their WRs running free or whether it's just knowledge of the defensive lineup...it's just crazy to see how Rodgers has guys finding the open spots in a defense all game, regardless of who they're going up against. THAT was the excitement behind the McAdoo hiring. To date, though, it hasn't shown up. The actual plays don't look a whole lot different than what we've seen from the Giants dating back pre-McAdoo. There absolutely needs to be some originality, some creativity, something defenses haven't seen before brought to the table.

 

Ordinarily, I'd give McAdoo another year to get his offensive head out of his offensive ass...but given we overachieved this year, I'll give him two more years. By that point, Eli will essentially be done or damn near done. Beckham will be at or damn near at the end of his rookie contract looking for big money...point being, if we don't improve, there's a logical break there for a new coach to step in.

[Tempest]

Sure bu Dlaas managed more than 13 points. The Giants O has been abysmal all season and McAdoo refused to change anything up. I forget the stat but 95% of Giants' O formation was exactly the same while the league average is 45%. The Packers don't have an all world O line either but they improvise and play to Rodgers strengths. The Giants O is a classic case or round hole and square peg. If you jam it hard enough it'll fit...or not.

 

He was limited by the personnel to make significant changes. McAdoo really stuck with getting his best players on the field and playing towards the strengths of the team. Great QB, a offensive line that was better in pass protection and better wide receivers. Fans lost their shit when Eli Manning threw the ball to anyone else. Running game was either inconsistent or abysmal and defenses had little problem getting into the backfield to make stops for a loss.

 

Why would you go with a two TE formation if you don't have two good TE's? No FB so there goes any power running formation. Second half of the season he started doing that with our offensive linemen but then injuries kicked in and Flowers/Hart began to really struggle out there.

 

Giants could have picked up a FB at any point during the season, but stuck with what wasn't working. Getting a better TE and offensive linemen should be a 2017 offseason priority.

[Gman329]

If the fan can predict the play, what do you think the defenses who study this shit daily can do? I've said it before, McAdoo was/is expected to bring that Green Bay playbook to New York. Watch Green Bay...just fucking watch them. There are play designs that specifically get a WR wide open. Sometimes its for 5 yards, other times 15. Doesn't matter. Whether it's setting a pick to get their WRs running free or whether it's just knowledge of the defensive lineup...it's just crazy to see how Rodgers has guys finding the open spots in a defense all game, regardless of who they're going up against. THAT was the excitement behind the McAdoo hiring. To date, though, it hasn't shown up. The actual plays don't look a whole lot different than what we've seen from the Giants dating back pre-McAdoo. There absolutely needs to be some originality, some creativity, something defenses haven't seen before brought to the table.

 

Ordinarily, I'd give McAdoo another year to get his offensive head out of his offensive ass...but given we overachieved this year, I'll give him two more years. By that point, Eli will essentially be done or damn near done. Beckham will be at or damn near at the end of his rookie contract looking for big money...point being, if we don't improve, there's a logical break there for a new coach to step in.

 

Are those the plays where Rodgers has 8, 9 and 10 seconds back there? But again, we're talking play design as opposed to play calling. There's a difference.

[BlueInCanada]

I think my biggest complaint was that regardless of the opponent the game plan/design was the same thing week in and week out.

 

I understand the team has some glaring holes on offence but there are playoffs teams with just as many holes as the Gints, Packers/Steelers, hell even the Patriots have a horribly average Oline and mediocre WR core.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for an "Genius offensive guru" like MacAttack you would think he would have a different plan of attack or ways of trying to hide these weaknesses depending on the opponent that week. However each week it was the exact same game plan and playcalling, he never tried anything new to try to find a spark on that side of the ball.

 

I've never seen an entire game design revolve around "Throw a 5 yard slant to OBJ and hope he breaks it for 60 yards" and it was the same thing week after week after week.

[Sephiroth]

It's a chicken and egg scenario. The offense had too much 11 personnel and ran totally vanilla plays, but when Larry Donnell and Will Tye are your TEs and you don't have a fullback on the roster who's really to blame?

[Herc]

I think mcadoo feels he doesn't need a fb

[Bigblue25]

Sure bu Dlaas managed more than 13 points. The Giants O has been abysmal all season and McAdoo refused to change anything up. I forget the stat but 95% of Giants' O formation was exactly the same while the league average is 45%. The Packers don't have an all world O line either but they improvise and play to Rodgers strengths. The Giants O is a classic case or round hole and square peg. If you jam it hard enough it'll

 

fit...or not.

 

The D saved McAdoo's job because without that this team would be drafting top 10 again.

The Packers Oline is really good. David Bakhtari their LT was second team all-pro, T.J Lang was named to the all NFC team (Bakhtari went one pick ahead of Nassib.) Lang will be 30 at the start of the next year but is a free agent the Giants consider

[GA4M]

It's a chicken and egg scenario. The offense had too much 11 personnel and ran totally vanilla plays, but when Larry Donnell and Will Tye are your TEs and you don't have a fullback on the roster who's really to blame?

 

I still think Mac wants the Giants to be like the Packers. not going to happen.

[Sephiroth]

 

I still think Mac wants the Giants to be like the Packers. not going to happen.

 

Even the Packers have a FB though. Kuhn was great blocker all those years and whoever that guy on Sunday was looked to be pretty decent as well.

[gmenroc]

Are those the plays where Rodgers has 8, 9 and 10 seconds back there? But again, we're talking play design as opposed to play calling. There's a difference.

 

Not necessarily. There are plays where he gets rid of the ball in a shorter amount of time to a guy who seems to be running free. I think it has more to do with a specific play to get a specific guy into a specific space based upon what type of defense they're lining up against. It's like they know where the holes on the defense are going to be and have a play to take advantage of that open spot.

 

Sure, some plays require more time than others to get their guys into the right spot and sometimes that spot does get covered after the snap, and that's when Rodgers buys time for something else to open up.

[mastershake]

Typical sequence of Giants drives

 

1 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Jennings draw for -1. Pass incomplete. 3 and out.

 

2 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Offensive holding. 2nd and 18. Will Tye pass for 7 yard gain. 3rd and 11; clearly way too impossible, so give up draw to Perkins for 3 yards. 3 and out.

 

3 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Next play, sack caused by Flowers not touching a player or Newhouse/Hart getting bowled over. 3rd and 18; give up draw or 5 yard pass. 3 and out.

 

4 - False start (Flowers). 1st and 15. 10 yard pass to Tye or Shephard. 2nd down, pass or run play behind the line of scrimmage for -2. 3rd and 7; pass play, offensive line doesn't block, Eli under heavy pressure throws it away. 3 and out.

 

5 - 11 Yard run to Perkins. 60 yard catch and TD run by Beckham.

 

Repeat sequence, whereby the next time around, #5 is Odell not scoring, Giants near red zone threatening, Eli fumbles or throws an INT trying to force the ball to Donnell who fell down.

[Storm]

Typical sequence of Giants drives

 

1 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Jennings draw for -1. Pass incomplete. 3 and out.

 

2 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Offensive holding. 2nd and 18. Will Tye pass for 7 yard gain. 3rd and 11; clearly way too impossible, so give up draw to Perkins for 3 yards. 3 and out.

 

3 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Next play, sack caused by Flowers not touching a player or Newhouse/Hart getting bowled over. 3rd and 18; give up draw or 5 yard pass. 3 and out.

 

4 - False start (Flowers). 1st and 15. 10 yard pass to Tye or Shephard. 2nd down, pass or run play behind the line of scrimmage for -2. 3rd and 7; pass play, offensive line doesn't block, Eli under heavy pressure throws it away. 3 and out.

 

5 - 11 Yard run to Perkins. 60 yard catch and TD run by Beckham.

 

Repeat sequence, whereby the next time around, #5 is Odell not scoring, Giants near red zone threatening, Eli fumbles or throws an INT trying to force the ball to Donnell who fell down.

Lmao that is so spot on.

[BlueInCanada]

Typical sequence of Giants drives

 

1 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Jennings draw for -1. Pass incomplete. 3 and out.

 

2 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Offensive holding. 2nd and 18. Will Tye pass for 7 yard gain. 3rd and 11; clearly way too impossible, so give up draw to Perkins for 3 yards. 3 and out.

 

3 - Jennings dive for 2 yards. Next play, sack caused by Flowers not touching a player or Newhouse/Hart getting bowled over. 3rd and 18; give up draw or 5 yard pass. 3 and out.

 

4 - False start (Flowers). 1st and 15. 10 yard pass to Tye or Shephard. 2nd down, pass or run play behind the line of scrimmage for -2. 3rd and 7; pass play, offensive line doesn't block, Eli under heavy pressure throws it away. 3 and out.

 

5 - 11 Yard run to Perkins. 60 yard catch and TD run by Beckham.

 

Repeat sequence, whereby the next time around, #5 is Odell not scoring, Giants near red zone threatening, Eli fumbles or throws an INT trying to force the ball to Donnell who fell down.

 

 

2016 summed up in one post.

[BronxRik]

Get rid of Sullivan, hire an offensive guru, boot McAdoo from play calling.

[Storm]

Get rid of Sullivan, hire an offensive guru, boot McAdoo from play calling.

 

Doesn't sound like it's going to happen willingly, unfortunately. It will take a midseason shake-up from the higher-ups to strip him of playcalling duties. By then, it will be too late. I'm willing to give it another shot with some more offensive talent but at what point will we have to say that we have to get the job done with the guys provided? We pay these coaches to gameplan to mask weaknesses and Mcadoo, thus far, hasn't really been able to do it...

[Gman329]

 

Doesn't sound like it's going to happen willingly, unfortunately. It will take a midseason shake-up from the higher-ups to strip him of playcalling duties. By then, it will be too late. I'm willing to give it another shot with some more offensive talent but at what point will we have to say that we have to get the job done with the guys provided? We pay these coaches to gameplan to mask weaknesses and Mcadoo, thus far, hasn't really been able to do it...

 

Heard much the same thing about Spags and the defense last year. Amazing how much smarter he got this year, with an infusion of talent. Not saying some of the complaints about McAdoo's offense are without merit but getting upgrades at the positions we've been talking about all year - OL, TE, a blocking FB and another outside WR - would make him look a lot smarter, too. For my money, OL is #1 priority. Pugh and Richburg are fine. All the other spots along the OL, including TE, need some new blood in camp come July.