Eli, Rivers, or Big Ben?

[Sephiroth]

Ben has the Super Bowl ring.

 

 

Rivers has a Pro Bowl berth.

 

 

Eli has... a stupid look on his face.

 

 

 

 

God, he fucking sucks.

[feefifoefum]

I said it when he went down, and I'll say it again...

 

 

We severely miss Amani Toomer, and so does Eli. I think they had a chemistry, and he was our one and only sure thing as far as catching passes. It seems whenever Shockey, Plax, or another receiver drop a ball, things go south quickly for Eli. I was at the game, and had nosebleed seats, so some things were hard for me to see, but I can recall more than a few critical drops by the Giants receivers on very catchable balls before the score got out of hand. There were two passes that it looked like Shockey had no idea the ball was coming, and it sailed by him. There is absolutely no chemistry between Eli and his receivers. I'm not defending Eli, but it doesn't help when the guys you are throwing to either aren't open, drop the pass, or don't even know it's coming. Something is very wrong with the passing game, but it's not solely Eli's fault. They just don't look like they know what they are doing out there, any of them. I think it's time for a regime change.

[Nas]

I do agree that Toomer is a very solid receiver for us. But I also recall Toomer became an after-thought. I like Toomer as a player and a person. He has the least ego out of all of them. The classiest most blue-collard player we have.

 

And btw, the way Carter has played for us.. I sure as fuck miss Hilliard.

[Herc]

does rivers still get to have the best player in football to hand off to and throw to, and does roethlisberger get to have a superbowl caliber team that can win despite shitty qb play in the superbowl?

 

oh and do both of these guys still get to have competant coaches?

 

if the answer is yes to all these questions i guess i'd take rivers. all things equal? who knows

[ccase39]

does rivers still get to have the best player in football to hand off to and throw to, and does roethlisberger get to have a superbowl caliber team that can win despite shitty qb play in the superbowl?

 

oh and do both of these guys still get to have competant coaches?

 

if the answer is yes to all these questions i guess i'd take rivers. all things equal? who knows

good point. I think eli has progressed in past few weeks, and played pretty well today most of the problems were dropped balls. the problem lies in the coaching. why even try when you know no matter what effort you put forth the coaches will always fuck you in the end. coughlin will be gone along with the rest of his worthless staff.

[Herc]

hey, if coughlin's gone and we get charlie weiss or some respectable coach in here and eli still plays like shit i'll jump off the bandwagon, but right now i think our coach is absolute crap. he sucks at everything, so why should i not attribute a young (remember, he's stillin his 2nd full season) qb's development to the coach???

[ccase39]

hey, if coughlin's gone and we get charlie weiss or some respectable coach in here and eli still plays like shit i'll jump off the bandwagon, but right now i think our coach is absolute crap. he sucks at everything, so why should i not attribute a young (remember, he's stillin his 2nd full season) qb's development to the coach???

I think your right on. And your point is proven when eli goes in no huddle. I would like to get his stats for no huddle vs. huddle. eli is not the problem I think he is improving in spite of the coaching staff.

[Sephiroth]

Wow, did you guys even watch the same game as me?

 

 

 

Coughlin didn't underthrow Plax on the TD

 

 

Lewis hasn't missed two yard passes to the flats the past six weeks.

 

 

Huffnagle hasn't overthrown Shockey on crossing patterns for the past three years.

 

 

 

I'm through with the "well, he just needs a new coaching staff" bullshit. He sucks. Period. Let's get a veteran and draft a young guy... Eli's got "career backup" written all over him.

[crackback]

Ben has the Super Bowl ring.

Rivers has a Pro Bowl berth.

Eli has... a stupid look on his face.

God, he fucking sucks.

Fuck Rivers and fuck big ben this bullshit is beginning to get old. We have Eli like it or not, and we have to get a scheme that works for this team not just Eli, the whole damn team.

[xxi-xxv]

Wow, did you guys even watch the same game as me?

Coughlin didn't underthrow Plax on the TD

Lewis hasn't missed two yard passes to the flats the past six weeks.

Huffnagle hasn't overthrown Shockey on crossing patterns for the past three years.

I'm through with the "well, he just needs a new coaching staff" bullshit. He sucks. Period. Let's get a veteran and draft a young guy... Eli's got "career backup" written all over him.

 

undertrhrow? It was 30 MPH winds he threw that ball into. Brees had similar problems with the wind and actually had balls sail on him quite a bit.

 

Career backups do not throw 47 Td's in 31 games over 2 seasons, but good coaching cuts 35 ints in the same span down to 25.

 

My god does everyone realize that ELI's 2006 numbrs mirror that of Phil Simms in 1986, not saying he is or will ever be Simms, but lets keep it in perspective.

 

I also wonder if Rivers and Bens #1 and #2 options to throw to make the trek to their rspective off season playing locations to work on things like route breaks and where one likes the ball in certain situations. I know Amani Toomer does that and he and ELI were doing quite well together this year before his tragic injury.

[Herc]

Wow, did you guys even watch the same game as me?

Coughlin didn't underthrow Plax on the TD

Lewis hasn't missed two yard passes to the flats the past six weeks.

Huffnagle hasn't overthrown Shockey on crossing patterns for the past three years.

I'm through with the "well, he just needs a new coaching staff" bullshit. He sucks. Period. Let's get a veteran and draft a young guy... Eli's got "career backup" written all over him.

 

that's fine, i just hope you hop back on as fast as you hopped off when charlie weiss is making yet another qb into a great player

[Sephiroth]

hat's fine, i just hope you hop back on as fast as you hopped off when charlie weiss is making yet another qb into a great player

 

 

Riiiight.

 

Year one: He's still a rookie.

 

Year two: He's still learning the system.

 

Year three: Bad coaching (this one I buy a little, but again, Coughlin doesn't miss passes in the flat three times per game).

 

 

What will the excuse be in years four and five? Year four will be the, "Well, it's another new system," or "he's shown flashes" and year five (if we're lucky) will be "he sucks, lets start over."

 

I'm tired of excuses, I'm tired of everything. He doesn't have it, guys. Let's get over it and move on... with someone else or at the very least sign a veteran backup so when Eli starts playing like Eli someone with common sense will put him on the pine.

 

We need a backup plan at the very, VERY least.

[Herc]

Year two: He's still learning the system.

 

year two: 24 tds (more than most of the all time greats had in their 1st full season as a starter, look it up), 3700 yards, 11-5, division title

 

year three: 23 Tds, 3100 yards, 5% better completion percentage. yeah he's still throwing interceptions but when you have a playbook and a gameplan THIS horrible and your counted on to throw more than your pro-bowl rb is counted on to run then i guess it's expected that your'e going to force a lot of bad passes. it's not often that qbs have great years with horrible coaches, cuz usually great years by qbs = wins = coaches keeping their jobs.

 

he's also looked noticably worse now that pettitgout is gone. like i said, i'll jump off too if we get a good coach in here and he doesn't develop into a great qb, but right now his numbers indicate that he's far from a backup. even if he never gets any better than he is now he's still a middle of the pack qb, sure he wont be worth what we gave up for him, but he'll be a NFL starting qb. i think you're coming down a little too hard on him.

 

hey, everything's gone wrong this season, even tiki's having a down year. i trace all of it back to coughlin

[Iceman_NYG]

hey, everything's gone wrong this season, even tiki's having a down year. i trace all of it back to coughlin

 

Coughlin has pretty much laid the path and decorated it with Christmas lights so that one-eyed dummies can also see that his and his co-ordinators are the biggest set of cocklicks on the planet.

 

This fart-shit of a game plan was evident right at the outset itself. In the first year itself, it was quite evident that our offensive game plan was absolute horse-shit. Hufnagel has diarrhoea for brains. I had even mentioned this vociferously on the Giants board right from that time on. But I had retarded nit-wits giving me shit about our record etc and about it being a new system.

 

Bull-fucking-shit! The system was crap right from the beginning. Who the hell makes a second year QB have the second most passing attempts in the league??? When you have Tiki lining up and having a monster year, these bums were making Eli chuck it like nobody's business.

 

The fuckers need to die. Get Weiss or the Titans DC in here. They seem to have a little something called a brain. How the fuck could Wellington like a fuckhead like Coughlin?? I wish Coughlin goes and joins Wellington. He can take that senile fuckface Hufnagel with him.

[randoff]

I said it when he went down, and I'll say it again...

We severely miss Amani Toomer, and so does Eli. I think they had a chemistry, and he was our one and only sure thing as far as catching passes. It seems whenever Shockey, Plax, or another receiver drop a ball,,,,,, There is absolutely no chemistry between Eli and his receivers. I'm not defending Eli, but it doesn't help when the guys you are throwing to either aren't open, drop the pass, or don't even know it's coming. Something is very wrong with the passing game. They just don't look like they know what they are doing out there, any of them.

I for one SERIOUSLY think that the above mentioned guys (Shock, Plax and Carter) are NOT practicing together. Those first two (Jeramy and Plax) IMO, think that they are prima donna and great recievers. And it seems like they are too cocky to even get in sync with a struggling QB.

 

In the Jets/Dolphins game I did see the new QB step in there for Joey 'freekin' Harrington. That new kid threw some decent passes to two of the second string WR. Reason why he was able to do those things was because they practice together ALL THE TIME! You can't help but to complete more than 60% of your passes to your WR if you practice it.

[gmenroc]

Maybe Eli doesn't suck as much as some are saying, but he certainly has not lived up to expectations. Maybe those expectations were too high, but if that's the case, we should have never paid the outlandish cost we paid to get him.

 

This coaching staff is pathetic, but the players are not making it any better. Until this team learns how to put a loss behind them and start the downward spiral, we will not be in contention.

 

I just feel bad for guys like Tiki, Amani, Strahan, Shockey. These guys have given what they had to this team and they aren't going to win anything any time soon.

[icavesai69]

Wow, did you guys even watch the same game as me?

Coughlin didn't underthrow Plax on the TD

Lewis hasn't missed two yard passes to the flats the past six weeks.

Huffnagle hasn't overthrown Shockey on crossing patterns for the past three years.

I'm through with the "well, he just needs a new coaching staff" bullshit. He sucks. Period. Let's get a veteran and draft a young guy... Eli's got "career backup" written all over him.

Sorry buddy, but you're a fuckin moron. When you have an OC that calls a pass from the shotgun after 2 successful runs by Tiki, theres a problem. When the OC calls 3 straight passing plays, theres a problem. When the OC runs the same fucking screen 3 times in 1 game, theres a fuckin problem. Yeah Eli played like shit, but also remember he had atleast 1 defender in his face almost every time he dropped back. The O line is helping, the drops aren't helping, and yeah his over/underthrows aren't helping, but you can't put 100% blame on him and you can't say he sucks.

 

Did you see the Jets game last night? Look at the play calling. Pennington isn't a great QB, but the play calling helps him out and allows the offense to move.

 

At the end of the game (when it was already 30-7) we ran twice, got like 18 yards, then came out and threw 3 times. What the fuck is that? You already started running the ball to end the game, then you're gonna turn around and make Eli throw 3 times to prolong it?

[Chuck Wagon]

I said it when he went down, and I'll say it again...

We severely miss Amani Toomer, and so does Eli. I think they had a chemistry, and he was our one and only sure thing as far as catching passes. It seems whenever Shockey, Plax, or another receiver drop a ball, things go south quickly for Eli. I was at the game, and had nosebleed seats, so some things were hard for me to see, but I can recall more than a few critical drops by the Giants receivers on very catchable balls before the score got out of hand. There were two passes that it looked like Shockey had no idea the ball was coming, and it sailed by him. There is absolutely no chemistry between Eli and his receivers. I'm not defending Eli, but it doesn't help when the guys you are throwing to either aren't open, drop the pass, or don't even know it's coming. Something is very wrong with the passing game, but it's not solely Eli's fault. They just don't look like they know what they are doing out there, any of them. I think it's time for a regime change.

 

 

Or bother to go to mini-camps and work with the guy in the offseason. I was thinking the same thing the other day. Eli threw the ball to Toomer...he aims it to the other guys.

 

C. Wagon

[feefifoefum]

I do agree that Toomer is a very solid receiver for us. But I also recall Toomer became an after-thought. I like Toomer as a player and a person. He has the least ego out of all of them. The classiest most blue-collard player we have.

 

And btw, the way Carter has played for us.. I sure as fuck miss Hilliard.

 

Toomer did become somewhat of an afterthought, but he would have been someone, the ONLY ONE, Eli could have relied on when he started to struggle. No way Toomer drops that pass on 4th and 2. No fucking way...

[Plow]

big ben had the worst QB rating ever for the winning QB in the super bowl. He had the best running game in football and the best defense. Not to mention some pretty fancy receivers.

 

Rivers has LT, the best player in football on his side.

 

Eli has an idiot coach, an idiot off coor, and idiot players surrounding him. Shockey, Burress, Whitfield, etc... they're all retarded.

 

I still will take Eli. Eli had had games where he's shown his abilities.

[randoff]

does rivers still get to have the best player in football to hand off to and throw to, and does roethlisberger get to have a superbowl caliber team that can win despite shitty qb play in the superbowl?

 

oh and do both of these guys still get to have competant coaches?

 

if the answer is yes to all these questions i guess i'd take rivers. all things equal? who knows

Shit TC woulda 'soured' Big Ben and Rivers too. And I truly believe IF Rivers was in a Giant Uni...Jared Lorenzen would start over him. But since this is Eli....it's a 'kid gloves' situation.

[Nas]

undertrhrow? It was 30 MPH winds he threw that ball into. Brees had similar problems with the wind and actually had balls sail on him quite a bit.

 

Career backups do not throw 47 Td's in 31 games over 2 seasons, but good coaching cuts 35 ints in the same span down to 25.

 

My god does everyone realize that ELI's 2006 numbrs mirror that of Phil Simms in 1986, not saying he is or will ever be Simms, but lets keep it in perspective.

 

I also wonder if Rivers and Bens #1 and #2 options to throw to make the trek to their rspective off season playing locations to work on things like route breaks and where one likes the ball in certain situations. I know Amani Toomer does that and he and ELI were doing quite well together this year before his tragic injury.

 

[GorillaNJ]

All things equal (aka not all the draft swaping noise) I would stick with Eli. I would have rather seen either Ben or Rivers plus the draft pick we gave up...

 

Big Ben is a good QB who was able to throw less then 20 passes a game while depending on a dominating running game and Defense on their way to a Superbowl victory. We will see how that Motorcycle accident pans out for him...

 

Rivers had the opportunity to hang on the bench for two seasons and come into his third season as the know starter... and he does have the best player in the league to hand the ball off too.... but he has had some less then stellar performances like last week against KC

 

GAMEDATE Opp......RESULT....GS....Att....Comp....Pct......Yds..... TD....Int..... Rate.....Sac...Yards

12/17 .............KC......W 20-9....Yes....23........8......34.8......97...... 0.......2.......12.4 .......2......9

*Why the fuck is it so hard to post stats

 

The better player in that draft will not be determined in the near term.... but it is hard to argue against the guy with the superbowl ring.

[feefifoefum]

All things equal (aka not all the draft swaping noise) I would stick with Eli. I would have rather seen either Ben or Rivers plus the draft pick we gave up...

 

Big Ben is a good QB who was able to throw less then 20 passes a game while depending on a dominating running game and Defense on their way to a Superbowl victory. We will see how that Motorcycle accident pans out for him...

 

Rivers had the opportunity to hang on the bench for two seasons and come into his third season as the know starter... and he does have the best player in the league to hand the ball off too.... but he has had some less then stellar performances like last week against KC

 

GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds

12/17 KC......W 20-9....Yes....23........8......34.8......97...... 0.......2.......12.4 .......2......9

 

The better player in that draft will not be determined in the near term.... but it is hard to argue against the guy with the superbowl ring.

 

Or the other guy, who likely will also have a ring at the end of this season. Poor Eli. Maybe before all is said and done, he'll have two rings, one for each middle finger.

[Sephiroth]

LOL... don't know if any of you noticed, but Eli handed off to a guy named Tiki Barber for the last three years, and I heard he was pretty good, too.

 

 

 

Defend the guy all you want. I'll still be here in two years to say "I told you so."

 

 

He DOES NOT have it.