mastershake Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I never said that. I think fans are over-reacting to the preseason play of the offensive line. Be prepared for two things this regular season: 1 - The offensive line being very mediocre, and a disaster on the right side. In particular, struggling to run the ball and anything outside the short west coast pass game. 2 - LBs who can't cover worth a damn, and not enough depth at S to fill in that gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 There's 2 issues with this. 1: we've been dealing with and haven't addressed these issues for years. People (both professional and casual fans) will bring up that we drafted OL high in 3 of the last 4 drafts, and yet all 3 of them have been played out of position at some point (Pugh now, Richburg in 2014, and Flowers was supposed to start at RT). Add to that the fact that we're still sitting here with Newhouse starting on the right side and doing his best impression of a turnstile and we have a recipe for disaster that should've been take care of more diligently since we started addressing the ol back in 2013. 2: We still have over $17M in cap space. There could've been plenty more done in free agency this year. Now the quality may not have been the best, but I'm absolutely sure that SOMEONE out there was better than Newhouse. Even if only for a year. That's my issue too. The o-line is tricky to fix but there were linebackers available for cheap. We could've plugged that hole in one offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Howard Cross has been saying that they went after "five high profile" FA's for the oline three went back to their prospective teams (basically used the Giants offer sheets as leverage) and the other two retired. So Reese's plan of fixing the line was dashed. They keep (giants kickoff live podcast crew) saying that they almost won X games and that the upgrades on the defense and Skill players on Offense will make them a better team (above .500). I for one am old school you START WITH THE LINES.... But hey I'm just some moron posting on a message board. I want to be positive about this team but after last weekends game I can;t help but think same BS different year. This. I've been on the Fire Reese bandwagon for a while now, but I think the play of the line is more because the guys they brought in (Okung, Penn, etc) were told they'd have to make a switch to the right side. It's not like Reese ignored it, and I'm sure he's still looking. Does he still deserve the most blame? Yes. This is what happens when you draft athletes instead of football players for six years. But it's not fair to say he ignored the problem, he just wants to see what we've got in Flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 This. I've been on the Fire Reese bandwagon for a while now, but I think the play of the line is more because the guys they brought in (Okung, Penn, etc) were told they'd have to make a switch to the right side. It's not like Reese ignored it, and I'm sure he's still looking. Does he still deserve the most blame? Yes. This is what happens when you draft athletes instead of football players for six years. But it's not fair to say he ignored the problem, he just wants to see what we've got in Flowers. It's not just a matter of did he try or not, but was he able to build an O-line. He hasn't been able to. It should never have come to this point. The buck stops at the top. We have a C - O-Line because of Reese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Be prepared for two things this regular season: 1 - The offensive line being very mediocre, and a disaster on the right side. In particular, struggling to run the ball and anything outside the short west coast pass game. 2 - LBs who can't cover worth a damn, and not enough depth at S to fill in that gap. We'll see There are things that happen during the regular season that you didn't expect and the team improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 It's not just a matter of did he try or not, but was he able to build an O-line. He hasn't been able to. It should never have come to this point. The buck stops at the top. We have a C - O-Line because of Reese. Totally. It's just that complete ineptitude and ignorance are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 We'll see There are things that happen during the regular season that you didn't expect and the team improves. Flowers and Richburg have the potential to improve. Pugh may have settled in at the level of a 'B' guard without much more room to grow, but can be successful there with a good group around him. Jerry and Newhouse I have little confidence in. Little to no upside. They're backups playing as starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I haven't watched any preseason games (life really got in the way)... So my opinion here does not take into account two preseason games: I'm no fan of shuffling players around. I think based on what was established last year Flowers is our future LT and will be a stud (it seems like you guys think he regressed this year???) And pugh should stay on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Flowers and Richburg have the potential to improve. Pugh may have settled in at the level of a 'B' guard without much more room to grow, but can be successful there with a good group around him. Jerry and Newhouse I have little confidence in. Little to no upside. They're backups playing as starters. Yeah I don't see upside in them either and if Hart is still on the bench in September, he will fall into that category as well. I think Pugh is better than you give him credit for and is the reason why the left side of the line was better last season and will be again this year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I haven't watched any preseason games (life really got in the way)... So my opinion here does not take into account two preseason games: I'm no fan of shuffling players around. I think based on what was established last year Flowers is our future LT and will be a stud (it seems like you guys think he regressed this year???) And pugh should stay on the right side. Pugh hasn't been on the right side since 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This. I've been on the Fire Reese bandwagon for a while now, but I think the play of the line is more because the guys they brought in (Okung, Penn, etc) were told they'd have to make a switch to the right side. It's not like Reese ignored it, and I'm sure he's still looking. Does he still deserve the most blame? Yes. This is what happens when you draft athletes instead of football players for six years. But it's not fair to say he ignored the problem, he just wants to see what we've got in Flowers. I'm personally saying he ignored the problem because there are multiple ways to address positional issues. Last 2 years it's only been through the draft... where we've had limited selections due to trades and this year we didn't successfully address the ol AT ALL. We can't continue operating like that and expect anything to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 It's not Reese's fault entirely. They re-signed Beatty after he played well in 2012 and then he got hurt. They expected him back last year and Flowers was originally going to be a RT. The problem with the 2015 draft is they needed an OT and it wasn't a great crop. I could see not putting Flowers back to RT once he played LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 They could've made Okung happen and they didn't. They should've done whatever was necessary to bring him in and they didn't. The money was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 They could've made Okung happen and they didn't. They should've done whatever was necessary to bring him in and they didn't. The money was there. Story on Okung and every other FA OT we brought in was that the Giants were/are hell-bent on keeping Flowers on the left side. Everyone else coming in wanted LT money, but we were only offering up the right side (and likely right side money). Giants could've been a little more flexible and let the FA at least compete for the LT spot...but they pretty much told everyone that they had their LT and the interviews were all for the right side. And not surprisingly, none signed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Yes, and they did themselves a disservice. Seemingly every position the job must be earned, and the best players are going to play, but in Flowers' case, they would not allow the competition that is supposedly so important at other positions. They could have said, you can earn LT, it will be a competition between you and Flowers, and the loser moves to the right side. I wish they would have done that, I think we could've gotten a veteran here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 May have also helped Flowers knowing that if he doesn't continue to work and develop, that his job isn't a guarantee, Now, he can coast knowing that nobody is going to replace him and that he has a whole year ahead of him to get better without worrying about being replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Flowers doesn't play like a guy who needs to be coddled. I don't get why they didn't make it a competition either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 They could've made Okung happen and they didn't. They should've done whatever was necessary to bring him in and they didn't. The money was there. Sorry you have absolutely no idea what was or was not done in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Flowers doesn't play like a guy who needs to be coddled. I don't get why they didn't make it a competition either. Unfortunately it is a competition between Flowers and and undrafted tackle. It is hard to make it a paid competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 May have also helped Flowers knowing that if he doesn't continue to work and develop, that his job isn't a guarantee, Now, he can coast knowing that nobody is going to replace him and that he has a whole year ahead of him to get better without worrying about being replaced. Yeah everyone understands that to a point in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Yes, and they did themselves a disservice. Seemingly every position the job must be earned, and the best players are going to play, but in Flowers' case, they would not allow the competition that is supposedly so important at other positions. They could have said, you can earn LT, it will be a competition between you and Flowers, and the loser moves to the right side. I wish they would have done that, I think we could've gotten a veteran here. You have to pay a tackle to play on the left side as a left tackle. How do you take back that money if they get out-played? Will Beatty has an idea how that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 It's not Reese's fault entirely. They re-signed Beatty after he played well in 2012 and then he got hurt. They expected him back last year and Flowers was originally going to be a RT. The problem with the 2015 draft is they needed an OT and it wasn't a great crop. I could see not putting Flowers back to RT once he played LT Ah look a voice of reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I wanted okung too but the guy was available that late in the offseason for a reason. I'm not looking to roll the red carpet out for him and give him the job of a guy we invested a first round pick in one season later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 It didn't have to be Okung. The line had been falling apart for years and it was largely ignored until 2013 when we drafted Pugh, who at the time was supposed to be our new franchise LT and is now manning LG. I absolutely loved the Richburg pick even if we wasted a year of his development with the JD Walton travesty, and I REALLY want Flowers to exceed all expectations and become an All Star, but the fact remains that it took us 3 years to get 3 starters for the OL and while Reese is sitting there telling everyone how confident he is in our OL, we're sitting here just waiting for Eli to retire after getting his brains turned into soup behind this horribly underperforming OL (and TEs for that matter). Edit: Beatty is the only outlier in all of this because no one can predict injuries (except us Mets fans). Even so... the writing was on the wall for him when we drafted Flowers in the first place... hell when we drafted Pugh (although I don't believe he was starting on 2013). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Okung signed for 1 year, $5 mil, with team options. Zero dollars guaranteed. We could've gotten him, the money was there. And he only needed to better than Newhouse to justify the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now