Money Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Recently there has been a lot of negative sentiment directed towards William Joseph, with posters suggesting his performance in 2005 was problematic and that he needs to be replaced. So I decided to investigate this issue and provide a detailed examination of the Giants defensive performance with and without Joseph in 2005. Here are the results of my research... Games With William Joseph Arizona @New Orleans @San Diego St. Louis @Dallas Denver Washington @San Francisco Minnesota Key Statistics n = 9 Points Allowed Per Game: 18.6 Yards Allowed Per Game: 319.0 Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 114.0 Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 205.0 Sacks Per Game: 2.6 Games Without William Joseph Philadelphia @Seattle Dallas @Philadelphia Kansas City @Washingtion @Oakland Key Statistics n = 7 Points Allowed Per Game: 21.0 Yards Allowed Per Game: 338.4 Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 122.6 Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 215.8 Sacks Per Game: 2.3 Conclusion As the statistics indicate, the defense experienced a significant decline in production after Joseph was sidelined due to injury. By any objective measure, Joseph was a strong contributor to the defense when he was healthy, as evidenced by the drop-off in defensive output after he was injured. Therefore, those of you who suggest that Joseph was part of problem instead of being part of the solution are simply off base ... the defense performed better when he was in the line-up. Suffice to say, the methods employed by anyone who discredits William Joseph's play in 2005 are about as useful for evaluating defensive players as forks are for eating soup. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nosebleed Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Pierce missing the final three games should be considered a major cause. Not only are you losing his physical play, but emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesShowMeTheWay Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Interesting post...I never really followed the numbers closely enough to evaluate the difference though nosebleed does make a good point about pierce missing the final three games. Either way I've been behind Joseph for awhile and I think all he needed was some confidence and a good opportunity. He should be a strong point in our defense next year with the added experience and the fact that he knows he doesn't have to fight for a starting spot next year unlike prior years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Interesting post...I never really followed the numbers closely enough to evaluate the difference though nosebleed does make a good point about pierce missing the final three games. Either way I've been behind Joseph for awhile and I think all he needed was some confidence and a good opportunity. He should be a strong point in our defense next year with the added experience and the fact that he knows he doesn't have to fight for a starting spot next year unlike prior years. Around this time last year, I stood by Joseph and maintained that I'd like to see how he would do if he had a full offseason program, something that was not afforded to him during his first two years in the league. Now I'd like to see how does if another quality DT played next to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesShowMeTheWay Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Around this time last year, I stood by Joseph and maintained that I'd like to see how he would do if he had a full offseason program, something that was not afforded to him during his first two years in the league. Now I'd like to see how does if another quality DT played next to him... Yes exactly. I really wish we could land La'Roi Glover because the more I think about it our LB core isn't really that bad in a healthy Emmons, Pierce, and Torbor(who is only going to get better as he adapts to the position) and we will definately get a LB in the draft. I do also believe that Butler deserves a shot and a safety will also be drafted. The real question mark is Will P. I pray that he comes back because it'll make things less complicated but a cheap FA vet at CB would not hurt at all. I can't wait until FA though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Glover already signed with the Rams. Id like us to go after Bernard but I think hes going to be way to expensive. After him, Triplett and Keowanau (or something like that) are next on my list. Joseph is going to be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesShowMeTheWay Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Glover already signed with the Rams. Id like us to go after Bernard but I think hes going to be way to expensive. After him, Triplett and Keowanau (or something like that) are next on my list. Joseph is going to be fine. Shit I didn't realize that you could offer before the official start of FA. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaginCaucasian Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Recently there has been a lot of negative sentiment directed towards William Joseph, with posters suggesting his performance in 2005 was problematic and that he needs to be replaced. So I decided to investigate this issue and provide a detailed examination of the Giants defensive performance with and without Joseph in 2005. Here are the results of my research... Games With William Joseph Arizona @New Orleans @San Diego St. Louis @Dallas Denver Washington @San Francisco Minnesota Key Statistics n = 9 Points Allowed Per Game: 18.6 Yards Allowed Per Game: 319.0 Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 114.0 Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 205.0 Sacks Per Game: 2.6 Games Without William Joseph Philadelphia @Seattle Dallas @Philadelphia Kansas City @Washingtion @Oakland Key Statistics n = 7 Points Allowed Per Game: 21.0 Yards Allowed Per Game: 338.4 Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 122.6 Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 215.8 Sacks Per Game: 2.3 Conclusion As the statistics indicate, the defense experienced a significant decline in production after Joseph was sidelined due to injury. By any objective measure, Joseph was a strong contributor to the defense when he was healthy, as evidenced by the drop-off in defensive output after he was injured. Therefore, those of you who suggest that Joseph was part of problem instead of being part of the solution are simply off base ... the defense performed better when he was in the line-up. Suffice to say, the methods employed by anyone who discredits William Joseph's play in 2005 are about as useful for evaluating defensive players as forks are for eating soup. Discuss. Thank you Money, too many here have allowed their blind hatred/racism to cloud the facts. Pierce missing the final three games should be considered a major cause. Not only are you losing his physical play, but emotional. And yet where did our defense start to give up game winning drives on the ground???? To which team??? Minnesota, after Joseph got hurt.... previous to that nobody ran on us in the last 1/2 of the game. Certianly not Washington & the ever-so-great Clinton Portis when Joseph was in the lineup.... we held them to under 30 yards rushing for the game!!! Not that your comments are that far left of the truth, losing Pierce (& the rest of our starting linebacking corps) during the streach run did hurt, you cannot discount what affect losing William Joseph had to our defense in the second half of this season. The numbers (unlike certian individuals in this forum) tell the truth, as Money has clearly shown losing William Joseph to injury clearly hurt our defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floyd The Barber Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 he plays and looks like a baby seal...lying on the floor, greasy, oily and soft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyoneli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 he plays and looks like a baby seal...lying on the floor, greasy, oily and soft... Sounds like your fantasizing about him now, Floyd. Very scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I, too, am in favor of keeping Joseph around. I think that he's shown what he can do here and there. He hasn't been near as consistent as we would all like him to be. I don't think he's getting many double teams because of our DEs, and I don't think it's a fatigue issue as we do have a rotation on the DLine, but for what he has shown, I just wouldn't want to see him let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floyd The Barber Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Around this time last year, I stood by Joseph and maintained that I'd like to see how he would do if he had a full offseason program, something that was not afforded to him during his first two years in the league. Now I'd like to see how does if another quality DT played next to him... dear god...all these favorable scenario's and excuses to keep this guy around...now we have to surround this talent-less player with talent in order to evaluate him...does this make sense ?? i think we got a fair look at him when he plays next to average players...playing next to Clancy proved that he is nothing more than camp fodder...he is no-where near his draft status, and his projected level...im all for keeping him around too, just for depth, but by no means does he deserve to start or touch the field...id rather see TUCK playing DT then Joseph...pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_Eli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 dear god...all these favorable scenario's and excuses to keep this guy around...now we have to surround this talent-less player with talent in order to evaluate him...does this make sense ?? i think we got a fair look at him when he plays next to average players...playing next to Clancy proved that he is nothing more than camp fodder...he is no-where near his draft status, and his projected level...im all for keeping him around too, just for depth, but by no means does he deserve to start or touch the field...id rather see TUCK playing DT then Joseph...pathetic Hey idiot, he won the spot in camp. TC didn't hand it to him. The Fab 4 makes it seem like Joseph is the biggest, laziest bum ever who does whatever he wants and Giants management and coaching doesn't care because he's their #1 DT. Could you be more wrong Fab 4? Some speculated (I'm sure you did) Joseph would get cut after training camp. But ya know what? He proved the doubters wrong, worked hard, and won a starting spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyoneli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hey idiot, he won the spot in camp. TC didn't hand it to him. The Fab 4 makes it seem like Joseph is the biggest, laziest bum ever who does whatever he wants and Giants management and coaching doesn't care because he's their #1 DT. Could you be more wrong Fab 4? Some speculated (I'm sure you did) Joseph would get cut after training camp. But ya know what? He proved the doubters wrong, worked hard, and won a starting spot. May I take the liberty of submitting Floyd's response before he does? "Joseph won the job by default. There was no one else around who was any better. He still sucks and should be cut now." Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floyd The Barber Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hey idiot, he won the spot in camp. TC didn't hand it to him. The Fab 4 makes it seem like Joseph is the biggest, laziest bum ever who does whatever he wants and Giants management and coaching doesn't care because he's their #1 DT. Could you be more wrong Fab 4? Some speculated (I'm sure you did) Joseph would get cut after training camp. But ya know what? He proved the doubters wrong, worked hard, and won a starting spot. did you attend training camp in Albany ?? do you understand the politics of football ?? i did attend, and i udnerstand fully... Joseph was manhandled the entire camp 2005...if it wasnt for Fred Robbins reporting in some of the worst shape of his life, Joseph would of been an afterthougth...he was pushed around i clearly remembered by NYJ 3rd team Offensive linemen...when in team drills he wouldnt even move...even Robbins in poor shape played better, but TC had a huge hard on for him... Joseph did not "win" the job, it was handed to him by default...if we sign a DT, someone proven, or draft a few young studs, they will prove just had bad this guy is this pre-season...hes at the end of his rope and has been earning his check off the sweat of the next mans back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK-Giantsfan Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 he plays and looks like a baby seal...lying on the floor, greasy, oily and soft... Barney , i presume you are referring to Lockhart10 here during your fag 4 sex games ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmiwinks Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 he plays and looks like a baby seal...lying on the floor, greasy, oily and soft... I can see your point...... You have no argument so you call him lazy / fat / pig / baby seal. See I look guys like a baby seal......Id like to club you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Shit I didn't realize that you could offer before the official start of FA. Thanks for the update. You can't, only to players that were cut and Glover was cut. Not a contract expiring RFA or UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nutty Sack Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I'm afraid we are in the futile exercise of trying to make blind men see. By the end of camp he was the lesser of all evils. What the Fab Four are proposing is that we can dramatically upgrade now through signing the best DT available through free agency. Numbers can be made to say anything you want. Heck we lost our whole line backing crew. If Joseph was in there those secomnd half stats would have been even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyoneli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 did you attend training camp in Albany ?? do you understand the politics of football ?? i did attend, and i udnerstand fully... Joseph was manhandled the entire camp 2005...if it wasnt for Fred Robbins reporting in some of the worst shape of his life, Joseph would of been an afterthougth...he was pushed around i clearly remembered by NYJ 3rd team Offensive linemen...when in team drills he wouldnt even move...even Robbins in poor shape played better, but TC had a huge hard on for him... Joseph did not "win" the job, it was handed to him by default...if we sign a DT, someone proven, or draft a few young studs, they will prove just had bad this guy is this pre-season...hes at the end of his rope and has been earning his check off the sweat of the next mans back... I beat you to your own response, Floyd. It scares me that I am now able to predict, to a tee, your responses. May be time for a vacation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floyd The Barber Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I beat you to your own response, Floyd. It scares me that I am now able to predict, to a tee, your responses. May be time for a vacation..... you shouldnt be scared...you should be enlightened that maybe even the thickest of thick and dumbest of dumb (you) are begining to see the errors of your ways... come camp, this guy will be proven his true worth, we are bent towards improving our middle of the D-line this offseason may it be through the draft or FA... if our FO was content with the play of this slug, we wouldnt be addressing this area of need... enough said you bunch of tulips.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyoneli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 you shouldnt be scared...you should be enlightened that maybe even the thickest of thick and dumbest of dumb (you) are begining to see the errors of your ways... come camp, this guy will be proven his true worth, we are bent towards improving our middle of the D-line this offseason may it be through the draft or FA... if our FO was content with the play of this slug, we wouldnt be addressing this area of need... enough said you bunch of tulips.. Don't be afraid to admit that when you referred to the "thickest of thick" and "dumbest of dumb," you were actually referring to yourself and lockhart. I know the truth hurts Floyd, but once you see yourself as the deluded hater that you really are, you will feel better about yourself, and may, with the proper therapy, actually be able to make a friend or two someday. At least friends that you don't have to pay to associate with you. Hang in there, pal. There's light at the end of your morose tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floyd The Barber Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Don't be afraid to admit that when you referred to the "thickest of thick" and "dumbest of dumb," you were actually referring to yourself and lockhart. I know the truth hurts Floyd, but once you see yourself as the deluded hater that you really are, you will feel better about yourself, and may, with the proper therapy, actually be able to make a friend or two someday. At least friends that you don't have to pay to associate with you. Hang in there, pal. There's light at the end of your morose tunnel. that is correct...i hate anyone who hinders the performance of my NYG's team in general...they do not need to pull his fat ass anymore...they will improve and all you suckers will be shocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyoneli Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 that is correct...i hate anyone who hinders the performance of my NYG's team in general...they do not need to pull his fat ass anymore...they will improve and all you suckers will be shocked You are starting the long fall into the abyss of insanity, Floyd. They are not "your" Giants. And thank god for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Thank you "money" for taking the time to provide these stats !!! But I'm sorry these stats mean very little. When you look at it closely you find that when joseph wasnt playing the Defense had .3 less sacks 2.5 more points allowed 10 yds more passing yds allowed 8 yd more rushing and 20 total yds more. These are not big delta's im sorry ! Gezz 10 yds more passing is one pass !!! 8 yds more rushing is a D players missing one tackle. 2.5 more points allowed is a 55 yd FG !! Joseph in my opinion was not responsible for these numbers but more to due with players being injured on D. Are we saying that Joseph will make the play to stop the running back for getting the extra 8 yds more rushing? I dont hate Joseph but also know that we need and A player on the D line to support our 2 best D players in Stray and Osi. Robbins , Clancy, Joseph, Duckett and Allen are all B and C+ players none of these guys are A players and in order to create havoic on the QB we need and upgrade here. Otherwise teams will continue to double the DE"s!!! Getting a great CB is not gonna change that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now