Herc Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yep and while were on the without Odell subject: https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/978284471328935937?s=21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I will be the most down on the Giants Ive ever been if they actually make the mistake to trade him now. With Barkley, Beckham, Engram, and Solder they are competitive on offense this year and can test Philly. Going QB or trading Beckham is immediately conceding 2018-2019 and thats a Browns tactic; not a Giants tactic. Franchises like the Giants dont rebuild they retool. I'm not fan or absolutes... if the guy's demands are going to hamstring the team from signing other talents, then what's the point of having a start WR but no OL, or DL, or LB corp... etc. I'm a firm believer in paying the right price and I don't think $20M per year is right for ANY player on any team in football... that goes for QBs too with very few exceptions.... Then you have to look at the return if he's to be traded... for the right price, you trade him... having said that, I don't think he should be traded unless negotiations reach a dead-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yeah if they trade Beckham they're nuts. I mean, if someone offers something insane you do it... 3 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd or something... but otherwise you keep the guy who's been the best player on your team for four years and deal with the kicking net bullshit. There's no room for insane... would you want the Giants to offer 3 firsts for a Beckham-like player? No... no team in their right mind would mortgage so much into one player... last time that happened, a coach was wearing a wig on draft day... and that image is still the laughing stock of the league.... Investing so much into one player is akin to putting your eggs in one basket... besides the guy is coming off a season ending injury... let's see him play out his contract first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Little stat I looked up. Since Super Bowl 46 the Giants have a total of 42 wins. 21 wins with Beckham and 21 without. Problem is... 16 of the wins without Beckham came in 2012 and 2013 before he was drafted. Since the 2014 draft the Giants without Beckham have only won 5 games. And zero super bowls with or without him... hence the cap is a factor no matter how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steitzenhaus Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Trade him to the Niners for the 9th pick and their first next year if they want him. I dont want to give a wide receiver 100 million dollars and while theres no actual evidence he even said or intends to do it, I could easily see him holding out. Shame this is where were at hes the best player on our team and well liked by his teammates but i think you either pay him and live with it or cash him in. I know he can be franchised next year and the year after but I see that as kicking the can pay him or move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 And zero super bowls with or without him... hence the cap is a factor no matter how you look at it. And to that I'll ask you like I ask everyone that brings up that asinine point... when in the last 5 years have we even been close to a Super Bowl team? Post 2014 the Giants would've been picking in the top 5 every year without Beckham. That's his value. His presence alone has accounted for 16 more wins with him than without all while being a piss poor constructed team relying on the likes of Donnell, Randle, Jernigan, Tye, a gimpy Cruz, Adams, and the rest of the bargain basement players Reese brought in to build a "winner". This isn't basketball where Lebron can take trash to the finals every year. Put Antonio Brown, Julio Jones or hell, Jerry Rice on those teams with the same make up... you think they're winning a Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 And to that I'll ask you like I ask everyone that brings up that asinine point... when in the last 5 years have we even been close to a Super Bowl team? Post 2014 the Giants would've been picking in the top 5 every year without Beckham. That's his value. His presence alone has accounted for 16 more wins with him than without all while being a piss poor constructed team relying on the likes of Donnell, Randle, Jernigan, Tye, a gimpy Cruz, Adams, and the rest of the bargain basement players Reese brought in to build a "winner". This isn't basketball where Lebron can take trash to the finals every year. Put Antonio Brown, Julio Jones or hell, Jerry Rice on those teams with the same make up... you think they're winning a Super Bowl? I have no problem with any one player... I have a math problem... when you commit so much of the cap to one or 2 players, you will be in cap hell.... so while you may have one or 2 super stars, you have nothing but mediocre supporting actors... and nothing else... 2 B+ players beat an A player every time... Sure ODB is a great player... but at what point do you begin to question the wisdom of having ongoing cap issues... How many super stars do the Patriots have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I actually just saw a good break down on salary disparity within NFL rosters.... the Patriots were constructed about the same as the Giants, lots of highly paid players, contrary to their reputation. The Eagles on the other hand really were built with many mid-level players. I don't think having a handful of top players making top salaries is a problem. The problem is when that contract is disproportionate to the value the player provides. Would $20 million/year be too much for Beckham? Not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The eagles didnt have anyone accounting for more than 6% of the cap. A total masterpiece and also a unicorn. We won 2 Super Bowls with an extremely expensive quarterback. The Steelers and falcons have the other two best wide receivers in football making the money Beckham wants and they are contenders every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The eagles didnt have anyone accounting for more than 6% of the cap. A total masterpiece and also a unicorn. We won 2 Super Bowls with an extremely expensive quarterback. The Steelers and falcons have the other two best wide receivers in football making the money Beckham wants and they are contenders every year and extremely highly paid QBs as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 ...yeah, I think the cap mismanagement is as much an indicator of Reese's firing as anything. Sure, we have a ton tied up in Eli as other teams do with their QBs...but then we have two highly paid DEs, a DT, and a couple CBs who aren't skimping by either relatively speaking of course. I like that Gettleman let JPP go. Could've likely gotten a little more on that trade, but getting rid of the cap hit and sending the message to the rest of the team letting them know that anyone is expendable...the move was worth it without even getting into the diminishing returns JPP put on the field. I think that we are going to have to get really creative here soon. Eli will likely be done in two years...but we'll have to transition that money from his deals to new ones for Beckham and Collins. And if we do that...than we might want to draft a QB after all this year...to elongate the time where we can have a good QB cheap while taking advantage of the primes of Collins and Beckham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 not that I'm basing this on anything but what I saw on the field, but I think the JPP trade was more about team culture as it was about getting better on the field. As good as JPP is, I can't help but notice that he is consistently the last guy off the ball. And how does that affect the team when one of its best players is literally making no effort to be mentally focused, play after play? And if that is what is happening during the game, when it matters most, how is he preparing through the week and throughout the offseason? It can't have been good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I have no problem with any one player... I have a math problem... when you commit so much of the cap to one or 2 players, you will be in cap hell.... so while you may have one or 2 super stars, you have nothing but mediocre supporting actors... and nothing else... 2 B+ players beat an A player every time... Sure ODB is a great player... but at what point do you begin to question the wisdom of having ongoing cap issues... How many super stars do the Patriots have? The Pats are an anomaly and always will be. How many years does Eli have left? His cap number is ridiculous, but it won't always be there and there are plenty of ways to manipulate and/or deal with the salary cap other than just having a team full of garbage to accommodate a superstar. That's a GM's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The Pats are an anomaly and always will be. How many years does Eli have left? His cap number is ridiculous, but it won't always be there and there are plenty of ways to manipulate and/or deal with the salary cap other than just having a team full of garbage to accommodate a superstar. That's a GM's job. Part of the GM's job is to weigh the pros and cons of each contract... I'm not saying don't pay the man... just do the math first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Part of the GM's job is to weigh the pros and cons of each contract... I'm not saying don't pay the man... just do the math first. I'm sure he will. Especially considering he's already freed up plenty of space for next year when Beckham and Collins will both be UFAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Man if only all these "immediate" trade partners pulled the trigger on all these "done deals" that they were reporting 24/7 a handful of days ago. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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