What we've learned from this season.

[Sephiroth]

What I took away?

 

1. This team is more than just a roster overhaul and new coordinator away from being competitive. The shit drafts from 2009-2012 are really biting the Giants in the ass, and there's still gaping holes all over the roster. Moving forward, this team is in real trouble. Toss in a shitty conditioning coach and I'd say 9 wins is the ceiling for next year, and I'd expect something along the lines of 7-9. Need more proof? This was the 19th straight game we lost to a team with a winning record. We're still a long ways away, gentlemen.

 

2. The Eli magic is gone. That's not to say he didn't have a good year; I thought it was one of his better ones. But when was the last time the Giants won with three minutes to play and the ball in Eli's hands? 2011 maybe?

 

3. Odell Beckham is the real deal. Holy shit, what an electrifying player. Reese and TC had better send that kid a new car or something, because he pretty much saved both their jobs. Can't wait to see that guy play next year.

[Lughead]

What I took away?

 

1. This team is more than just a roster overhaul and new coordinator away from being competitive. The shit drafts from 2009-2012 are really biting the Giants in the ass, and there's still gaping holes all over the roster. Moving forward, this team is in real trouble. Toss in a shitty conditioning coach and I'd say 9 wins is the ceiling for next year, and I'd expect something along the lines of 7-9. Need more proof? This was the 19th straight game we lost to a team with a winning record. We're still a long ways away, gentlemen.

 

2. The Eli magic is gone. That's not to say he didn't have a good year; I thought it was one of his better ones. But when was the last time the Giants won with three minutes to play and the ball in Eli's hands? 2011 maybe?

 

3. Odell Beckham is the real deal. Holy shit, what an electrifying player. Reese and TC had better send that kid a new car or something, because he pretty much saved both their jobs. Can't wait to see that guy play next year.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

[Sephiroth]

You can't see the forest for the trees.

 

It used to be when we had the ball with 2-4 minutes left, it was automatic. Ever since the Eagles won in Met Life (you know the game I'm talking about) it hasn't happened once.

[Lughead]

 

It used to be when we had the ball with 2-4 minutes left, it was automatic. Ever since the Eagles won in Met Life (you know the game I'm talking about) it hasn't happened once.

it used to be when we had an NFL calibre Offensive line and a Viable Run game.

[BlueInCanada]

it used to be when we had an NFL calibre Offensive line and a Viable Run game.

 

And a coodrinator that wouldn't call RB swing passes with two minutes to go.

[Gman329]

As we've all been saying, it's what's up front that counts. Fix the OL and develop a running game and Eli to Odell & Cruz and hopefully we're seeing Randle emerge, will show you plenty of magic - without throwing 53 times. A good running game even makes our D better by keeping them off the field!

[fishgutmartyr]

We took leads/tied games in the 4th quarter a couple times this season. Apparently, the only way the defense can hold it is to not see the field afterwards.

 

But this offense does need some more work.

[fishgutmartyr]

While on the subject, what did you guys think of the oline yesterday? On the one hand, we can't run to save our lives. On the other, 53 passing attempts with no sacks--plenty of hurries, but what do you expect when you're one-dimensional? No way I want to keep the line as-is, but that is one weird stat.

 

I'd love to see Andre Williams actually have a hole to run through. He's got some heart. And it was nice to see him actually catch some passes.

 

For whatever reason, offense couldn't convert in the red zone this game, which was surprising.

 

Defense was just as frustrating as usual--sack on first down, give up 3rd and long anyway. We score, they give up points. SOP. We blew this game on multiple levels, but hoping we could pull it out of our ass with a last minute TD and 2-pointer was a bit much. Looking forward to the Fewell years being a bad memory. Bottom line: the defense should have done better this year than it showed, injuries be damned.

 

I really don't think the defense is as untalented as people think--it's got weak spots, but assuming we actually get Beason to stay on the field next year, we have some decent starters at LB, we have some very good CBs (Prince and DRC are damn good--between McBride, Chykie Brown, and Thurmond there's some decent backup next year), and some respectable defensive linemen. Safety is a big question mark with Rolle, and with both Behre and Cooper Taylor winding up injured. Who knows what happens with JPP.

 

I know I'm naming names that are going FA next season, but I don't think Thurmond or Brown are going to be expensive at all next year. Rolle is kidding himself if he thinks he's getting 9 million from anyone next year.

[Nas]

While on the subject, what did you guys think of the oline yesterday? On the one hand, we can't run to save our lives. On the other, 53 passing attempts with no sacks--plenty of hurries, but what do you expect when you're one-dimensional? No way I want to keep the line as-is, but that is one weird stat.

 

I'd love to see Andre Williams actually have a hole to run through. He's got some heart. And it was nice to see him actually catch some passes.

 

For whatever reason, offense couldn't convert in the red zone this game, which was surprising.

 

Defense was just as frustrating as usual--sack on first down, give up 3rd and long anyway. We score, they give up points. SOP. We blew this game on multiple levels, but hoping we could pull it out of our ass with a last minute TD and 2-pointer was a bit much. Looking forward to the Fewell years being a bad memory. Bottom line: the defense should have done better this year than it showed, injuries be damned.

 

I really don't think the defense is as untalented as people think--it's got weak spots, but assuming we actually get Beason to stay on the field next year, we have some decent starters at LB, we have some very good CBs (Prince and DRC are damn good--between McBride, Chykie Brown, and Thurmond there's some decent backup next year), and some respectable defensive linemen. Safety is a big question mark with Rolle, and with both Behre and Cooper Taylor winding up injured. Who knows what happens with JPP.

 

I know I'm naming names that are going FA next season, but I don't think Thurmond or Brown are going to be expensive at all next year. Rolle is kidding himself if he thinks he's getting 9 million from anyone next year.

 

I don't know what to make of the OL either.. I know that unit has to be consistent and it hasn't been... more upgrades are in order (especially thru the draft). I do think the defense can be great with a competent DC (yes I'm beating up a dead horse) and Beason... Beason.. I love the dude but damn is he always injured... if he stays on the field the entire D is a different animal... I don't see Rolle in blue next year...

[Sephiroth]

While on the subject, what did you guys think of the oline yesterday? On the one hand, we can't run to save our lives. On the other, 53 passing attempts with no sacks--plenty of hurries, but what do you expect when you're one-dimensional? No way I want to keep the line as-is, but that is one weird stat.

 

I'd love to see Andre Williams actually have a hole to run through. He's got some heart. And it was nice to see him actually catch some passes.

 

For whatever reason, offense couldn't convert in the red zone this game, which was surprising.

 

Defense was just as frustrating as usual--sack on first down, give up 3rd and long anyway. We score, they give up points. SOP. We blew this game on multiple levels, but hoping we could pull it out of our ass with a last minute TD and 2-pointer was a bit much. Looking forward to the Fewell years being a bad memory. Bottom line: the defense should have done better this year than it showed, injuries be damned.

 

I really don't think the defense is as untalented as people think--it's got weak spots, but assuming we actually get Beason to stay on the field next year, we have some decent starters at LB, we have some very good CBs (Prince and DRC are damn good--between McBride, Chykie Brown, and Thurmond there's some decent backup next year), and some respectable defensive linemen. Safety is a big question mark with Rolle, and with both Behre and Cooper Taylor winding up injured. Who knows what happens with JPP.

 

I know I'm naming names that are going FA next season, but I don't think Thurmond or Brown are going to be expensive at all next year. Rolle is kidding himself if he thinks he's getting 9 million from anyone next year.

This line could be very good if we had two guys who could run block. When we needed a yard on third and one, you knew you could get it behind Chris Snee. When this Giants team needs one, who do you turn to? I still think the line needs two players (maybe one could be Schwarz but I wouldn't trust him after being injured the entire year).

 

I keep saying we need two LBs but I think you can live with McClain and the kid we got. Beason is done and we really need somebody solid there.

 

As usual, it'll come down to injuries. As usual, I expect TC and crew will do nothing to address the league's worst conditioning staff.

[fishgutmartyr]

This line could be very good if we had two guys who could run block. When we needed a yard on third and one, you knew you could get it behind Chris Snee. When this Giants team needs one, who do you turn to? I still think the line needs two players (maybe one could be Schwarz but I wouldn't trust him after being injured the entire year).

 

I keep saying we need two LBs but I think you can live with McClain and the kid we got. Beason is done and we really need somebody solid there.

 

As usual, it'll come down to injuries. As usual, I expect TC and crew will do nothing to address the league's worst conditioning staff.

 

To be fair, we didn't sign McClain to be MLB. I'll give him credit for stepping up into the position.

 

I'd be more than happy to scrap Williams, Paysinger, and Herzlich. I think 2 are free agents, so it's not like it'll cost.

[Gman329]

Yeah, I put LB a close second to OL on the list of needs. A safety would be 3rd.

[fishgutmartyr]

Yeah, I put LB a close second to OL on the list of needs. A safety would be 3rd.

I would put safety above the other two positions, simply because we at least have a couple of pieces in place on the starting LBs and OLine. If Rolle isn't re-signed, who do we have at safety?

 

Don't get me wrong--we definitely need another guard and a moment of prayer for a healthy Schwartz; and as far as backups the linebackers are a wasteland--but we're looking directly at a mediocre Stevie Brown, Taylor, and Behr. As potential starters.

[Gman329]

I would put safety above the other two positions, simply because we at least have a couple of pieces in place on the starting LBs and OLine. If Rolle isn't re-signed, who do we have at safety?

 

Don't get me wrong--we definitely need another guard and a moment of prayer for a healthy Schwartz; and as far as backups the linebackers are a wasteland--but we're looking directly at a mediocre Stevie Brown, Taylor, and Behr. As potential starters.

 

True....but I just don't trust Beason to stay healthy, so the cupboard may be equally bare at MLB......and they seem to like Behr. But your point is well taken. Both positions need to be addressed, either through a high draft pick or FA. The total absence of a running game prompts me to keep OL as #1 priority, though.

 

Interesting that you specify a Guard. This brings us to the annual question: are we OK going forward with Beatty and his big cap hit ($26M over next three years) or do we jump on the chance to get out from under that contract by making him a June 1 cut? I suppose getting him to extend/redo is another option (if he's amenable).

[fishgutmartyr]

 

True....but I just don't trust Beason to stay healthy, so the cupboard may be equally bare at MLB......and they seem to like Behr. But your point is well taken. Both positions need to be addressed, either through a high draft pick or FA. The total absence of a running game prompts me to keep OL as #1 priority, though.

 

Interesting that you specify a Guard. This brings us to the annual question: are we OK going forward with Beatty and his big cap hit ($26M over next three years) or do we jump on the chance to get out from under that contract by making him a June 1 cut? I suppose getting him to extend/redo is another option (if he's amenable).

 

Well, sadly, we still don't know what we have with Schwartz. I like to think he'd be better than Jerry, and putting him next to Pugh might help at RT as well. Moving Richberg to his natural position could strengthen 2 positions, since Richberg isn't hitting any probowls at guard, and JD Walton shouldn't be starting.

 

Honestly, I don't follow why everyone is so freaked-out about Beatty's contract--if you look at it in comparison to other LT's in the league, it's just about average, which is the level of play we typically get from him. Yes, he was absolutely terrible in 2013, but he was ok in 2012, and again in 2014. The cap hit rises over the years, but so will the cap, and the younger players in the league will probably eclipse his contract.

 

http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

 

Personally, if his level of play stays about the same, I'd consider dumping him after 2016. In 2017 there'd be considerable cap savings and only 2.5 million in dead money. Gives us time to draft a tackle a little further down the line, giving us extra draft picks right now for more urgent positions.

 

So, yeah, a guard.

[Sephiroth]

 

Well, sadly, we still don't know what we have with Schwartz. I like to think he'd be better than Jerry, and putting him next to Pugh might help at RT as well. Moving Richberg to his natural position could strengthen 2 positions, since Richberg isn't hitting any probowls at guard, and JD Walton shouldn't be starting.

 

Honestly, I don't follow why everyone is so freaked-out about Beatty's contract--if you look at it in comparison to other LT's in the league, it's just about average, which is the level of play we typically get from him. Yes, he was absolutely terrible in 2013, but he was ok in 2012, and again in 2014. The cap hit rises over the years, but so will the cap, and the younger players in the league will probably eclipse his contract.

 

http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

 

Personally, if his level of play stays about the same, I'd consider dumping him after 2016. In 2017 there'd be considerable cap savings and only 2.5 million in dead money. Gives us time to draft a tackle a little further down the line, giving us extra draft picks right now for more urgent positions.

 

So, yeah, a guard.

 

I pretty much agree with all of this. I might look at RT as well instead of Guard in the draft. I think if you draft a good RT it gives you some flexibility... you could move him inside if he can't beat out Pugh or needs time to develop, or you could move Pugh to Guard and keep the kid on the outside. Seeing Richburg have a tough time playing out of position this season makes me a little leery of this plan at the same time.

 

But man, would I love to see a Chris Snee type in the middle for the next 10 years. I think an idea situation would be to trade down to 15th or so, nab the best interior lineman we can, and possibly get an additional 2nd or 3rd to fortify the LB or TE spots.

[boohyah]

I've learnt that our draft class ended up pretty good, obviously beckham, but Richburg and Williams and Kennard will all be contributors in the next few years. Bromley might end up in the same boat. But this team needs to go Safety/Defensive End and linebacker in the first 2 rounds. I have no faith in Rolle, Stevie Brown was a one year wonder. I think our linebackers are simply not physical enough and they have to replace Kiwi on the other end of the line.

[Nas]

I've learnt that our draft class ended up pretty good, obviously beckham, but Richburg and Williams and Kennard will all be contributors in the next few years. Bromley might end up in the same boat. But this team needs to go Safety/Defensive End and linebacker in the first 2 rounds. I have no faith in Rolle, Stevie Brown was a one year wonder. I think our linebackers are simply not physical enough and they have to replace Kiwi on the other end of the line.

 

Yea you really can't go wrong there anyway... But I do think having a stud OL is paramount to the long term success of the organization... we need a running game that's dominant...

[fishgutmartyr]

 

I pretty much agree with all of this. I might look at RT as well instead of Guard in the draft. I think if you draft a good RT it gives you some flexibility... you could move him inside if he can't beat out Pugh or needs time to develop, or you could move Pugh to Guard and keep the kid on the outside. Seeing Richburg have a tough time playing out of position this season makes me a little leery of this plan at the same time.

 

But man, would I love to see a Chris Snee type in the middle for the next 10 years. I think an idea situation would be to trade down to 15th or so, nab the best interior lineman we can, and possibly get an additional 2nd or 3rd to fortify the LB or TE spots.

 

I see the reasoning with RT, and it makes sense. But personally, I am sick to death of drafting tackles and trying to shoe-horn them along the line. Brewer, Mosely, McCants--didn't work--and now the middle of the line is its weakest point.

 

Meanwhile, when we did something crazy like draft guards as guards, Seubert and Snee--we were solid. I don't think Reese completely ignored the line--but he certainly ignored the middle of it--Petrus and Henderson are the only guards he's drafted that I even remember, and he drafted Henderson in the 7th round.

 

If we have to draft a "versatile" lineman, draft a guard that can play center. Please.

[Gman329]

 

I see the reasoning with RT, and it makes sense. But personally, I am sick to death of drafting tackles and trying to shoe-horn them along the line. Brewer, Mosely, McCants--didn't work--and now the middle of the line is its weakest point.

 

Meanwhile, when we did something crazy like draft guards as guards, Seubert and Snee--we were solid. I don't think Reese completely ignored the line--but he certainly ignored the middle of it--Petrus and Henderson are the only guards he's drafted that I even remember, and he drafted Henderson in the 7th round.

 

If we have to draft a "versatile" lineman, draft a guard that can play center. Please.

 

Agreed. Love to get a road grader.....like Schwartz was supposed to be. And to further your point, I read this morning that Pugh is adamant about not moving to G and says TC told him he's the RT, period (link below). Go get a Guard to compete with Schwartz or and let Richberg compete for the starting Center job. I know little to nothing about college players, so I'll be looking for opinions here on relative value of Safeties, LB's and OG's who might be on the board at 9. I could be happy with any of those positions but all need to be addressed, one way or another.

 

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/football/pugh-says-moving-to-guard-isn-t-an-option-1.1183170

[Sharick88]

What I learned is that Teflon Tom is running shit in the giants organization. John Mara sounded absolutely clueless today. It was a horrible press conference. Teflon Tom, on the other hand, can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants here and John Mara is just a figurehead. The team gets worse every year and TT gets untouched. He is a boss!

[Storm]

A portion of you ungrateful bastards have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

[mastershake]

What I took away?

 

1. This team is more than just a roster overhaul and new coordinator away from being competitive. The shit drafts from 2009-2012 are really biting the Giants in the ass, and there's still gaping holes all over the roster. Moving forward, this team is in real trouble. Toss in a shitty conditioning coach and I'd say 9 wins is the ceiling for next year, and I'd expect something along the lines of 7-9. Need more proof? This was the 19th straight game we lost to a team with a winning record. We're still a long ways away, gentlemen.

 

2. The Eli magic is gone. That's not to say he didn't have a good year; I thought it was one of his better ones. But when was the last time the Giants won with three minutes to play and the ball in Eli's hands? 2011 maybe?

 

3. Odell Beckham is the real deal. Holy shit, what an electrifying player. Reese and TC had better send that kid a new car or something, because he pretty much saved both their jobs. Can't wait to see that guy play next year.

 

We're closer than you think. As always, the game begins and ends in the trenches. If we spend FA money on or draft high on two great offensive lineman plus two defensive lineman (Not mediocre/sub-par ones like Walton, Patterson, or Kiwanuka, but legit ones), plus solidify the Safety position and add a good LB, we're not that far off from 10 wins. Six good free agents plus high draft picks in those areas is within our capability.

 

As for other positions (keep in mind, we get guys like Prince and Cruz back from injury):

 

QB - Fine IF he has an O-Line

 

RB - Fine if they have an O-Line

 

WR - Strength here, with Cruz, Beckham, Randle, and with Parker for depth. Fine here.

 

TE - Could use an upgrade, but not a priority

 

CB - Need depth. McBride comes back from injury. Perhaps Thurmond will re-sign for cheap as the nickel corner. I'm pretty sure Hosley played his way off the roster.

 

LB - See above, plus add a depth.

[Gman329]

A portion of you ungrateful bastards have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

 

Driz, I figured out a while back that it's not worth the time or blood pressure spike. Better to chuckle, roll your eyes and move on. Only drawback is, I get dizzy from rolling my eyes so much!

[Nas]

Yea I mean what the fuck are people thinking having different opinions.