Jump to content
SportsWrath

So what's really going to happen on Thursday?


Sephiroth

Recommended Posts

What I saw from Washington last year was an inability to create separation. And if you had a choice between Corey Washington and Kevin White, who are you taking?

 

I'm not making an argument FOR or AGAINST Kevin White or Washington.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beckham - Only consistent WR on our roster.

 

Cruz - Coming off a major injury that, iirc, no NFL WR has ever suffered. His injury directly impacts his "game". Has not played a full 16 game season since 2012. In the last 2 years he has played 20 games, caught 96 passes for 1335 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Randle - Most Inconsistent WR on our roster. Shows flashes of skill but never anything more. 3 years of production average out to 44 catches 616 yards and 4 TDs per season. Entering the final year of his contract.

 

Parker - Inconsistent at best. Shows potential but is overshadowed by on-field brainfarts. Career stats since 2010... 78 catches 994 yards 6 TDs.

 

Washington - master of preseason and only getting on the field when a Fade is necessary... rookie stats 5 catches 52 yards 1 TD

 

D. Harris - Entire purpose is ST. After 4 years in a pass-happy Dallas offense Harris amassed a whopping 33 catches for 418 yards. Potential? Yes. Security if Cruz goes down for a 3rd season in a row? I don't think so.

 

M. Harris - Barely know him. Injured all last season.

 

Ogletree - See D. Harris... 7 years in the NFL 88 catches for 1099 yards and 6 TDs. Was let go by Dallas after he was passed on the depth chart by... Dwayne Harris. Really?

 

Anyone else on the roster atm is nothing more than fodder imo. I don't see anything secure about this list. I'm not gonna sit here and say we absolutely have to go WR in the 1st round, but if a Cooper or White is on the board at 9 we need to take them.

 

I could go through the same exercise for Safety or Linebacker or Offensive Guard and the situation would be significantly more dire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I saw from Washington last year was an inability to create separation. And if you had a choice between Corey Washington and Kevin White, who are you taking?

Well obviously if White was on the bench, you'd put White in the game. Probably a moot point because White will be gone by 9...I'd bet on it.

 

Regardless, timing and running routes to perfection is important. Especially if your QB has to get rid of the ball and you must improvise a little. That comes with experience unless you are a freak of nature like OBJ. OBJ does things that are insane - not only on the football field with monster sticky hands that can catch a football with one hand better and more consistently than most WR's in the NFL using two hands, but in basketball, soccer, you name it. He can kick a 45 yard field goal consistently and throw a ball as good as some QB's and better than Tim Tebow. OBJ is special.

 

White is NOT OBJ. He's a spiffed up version of Randle without the NFL experience. It would be a luxury to have him on the team to be sure, but is not the missing piece to a great Giants team.

 

The game is won in the trenches - and we are short a couple of pieces there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not making an argument FOR or AGAINST Kevin White or Washington.

But you ARE making an comment about people wanting a WR in this draft and you're using Washington as your basis. The desire for a WR has nothing to do with him. It has to do with Cruz's health status and Randle's inconsistency/contract situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you ARE making an comment about people wanting a WR in this draft and you're using Washington as your basis. The desire for a WR has nothing to do with him. It has to do with Cruz's health status and Randle's inconsistency/contract situation.

 

I'm making a comment about people wanting a WR in this draft who also were shitting on Coughlin for not playing Washington.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beckham - Only consistent WR on our roster.

 

Cruz - Coming off a major injury that, iirc, no NFL WR has ever suffered. His injury directly impacts his "game". Has not played a full 16 game season since 2012. In the last 2 years he has played 20 games, caught 96 passes for 1335 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Randle - Most Inconsistent WR on our roster. Shows flashes of skill but never anything more. 3 years of production average out to 44 catches 616 yards and 4 TDs per season. Entering the final year of his contract.

 

Parker - Inconsistent at best. Shows potential but is overshadowed by on-field brainfarts. Career stats since 2010... 78 catches 994 yards 6 TDs.

 

Washington - master of preseason and only getting on the field when a Fade is necessary... rookie stats 5 catches 52 yards 1 TD

 

D. Harris - Entire purpose is ST. After 4 years in a pass-happy Dallas offense Harris amassed a whopping 33 catches for 418 yards. Potential? Yes. Security if Cruz goes down for a 3rd season in a row? I don't think so.

 

M. Harris - Barely know him. Injured all last season.

 

Ogletree - See D. Harris... 7 years in the NFL 88 catches for 1099 yards and 6 TDs. Was let go by Dallas after he was passed on the depth chart by... Dwayne Harris. Really?

 

Anyone else on the roster atm is nothing more than fodder imo. I don't see anything secure about this list. I'm not gonna sit here and say we absolutely have to go WR in the 1st round, but if a Cooper or White is on the board at 9 we need to take them.

 

spot on, and on top of all of this, randle is a UFA and cruz is cutable this time next year if he doesn't start living up to his contract. it's a position that needs to be addressed sooner or later--not that we should be drafting for position at #9 anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i was excited about washington after last preseason too, but this isn't just a case of a young guy not getting a chance, he was passed on the depth chart by parker who was solid on his best days

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could go through the same exercise for Safety or Linebacker or Offensive Guard and the situation would be significantly more dire.

I probably could too, but there's something to be said about a DC that was a part of a Super Bowl team that featured James Butler and Gibril Wilson as Safeties... meaning I think Spags alone makes Safety less of a priority than it would be if Fewell were still here. Personally I believe the LBs will be better just because Fewell is gone but I want a LB taken in this draft as well. Guard is a different story. I'm of the same opinion with OG as I am with WR. We need one somewhere in the first 3 rounds.

 

@Bleedin I mentioned White because I he's closer to Washington in body-type. I'm on the Cooper Bandwagon because he and OBJ would be the greatest WR tandem Eli's ever had.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spot on, and on top of all of this, randle is a UFA and cruz is cutable this time next year if he doesn't start living up to his contract. it's a position that needs to be addressed sooner or later--not that we should be drafting for position at #9 anyway

Not just that Randle's a UFA... remember next offseason we're gonna have Prince, JPP and Eli ALL as UFAs unless we make moves on them sometime prior to the end of the season. That's gonna be $50m of our salary cap right there.

 

My other case for a WR... money. Pair OBJ up with a very good yet very inexpensive partner for the next 4 years while we get our cap straightened out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I probably could too, but there's something to be said about a DC that was a part of a Super Bowl team that featured James Butler and Gibril Wilson as Safeties... meaning I think Spags alone makes Safety less of a priority than it would be if Fewell were still here. Personally I believe the LBs will be better just because Fewell is gone but I want a LB taken in this draft as well. Guard is a different story. I'm of the same opinion with OG as I am with WR. We need one somewhere in the first 3 rounds.

 

@Bleedin I mentioned White because I he's closer to Washington in body-type. I'm on the Cooper Bandwagon because he and OBJ would be the greatest WR tandem Eli's ever had.

 

The point about the DC and use of Safety is somewhat valid. Though I'd suggest that Fewell used the 3 safety look as a result of our lack of quality linebackers. We didn't have a linebacker that could cover a TE, so we used a safety instead. At times, that safety would end up covering a slot receiver. I think it was more a function of what we had than what Fewell preferred...but none of us know that for certain. It worked for a while, until offenses learned to audible to a run play and the next thing you know, a 300+ lb pulling guard was blowing our 3rd safety back 10 yards and they just ran for 7 or 8 yards on first down.

 

And as for Spags and his lack of quality safeties...it was the pass rush we had that made the lackluster safety play excusable.

 

So while the DC plays into it, I think the strengths of the defense were a much, much bigger factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beckham - Only consistent WR on our roster.

 

Cruz - Coming off a major injury that, iirc, no NFL WR has ever suffered. His injury directly impacts his "game". Has not played a full 16 game season since 2012. In the last 2 years he has played 20 games, caught 96 passes for 1335 yards and 5 TDs.

 

Randle - Most Inconsistent WR on our roster. Shows flashes of skill but never anything more. 3 years of production average out to 44 catches 616 yards and 4 TDs per season. Entering the final year of his contract.

 

Parker - Inconsistent at best. Shows potential but is overshadowed by on-field brainfarts. Career stats since 2010... 78 catches 994 yards 6 TDs.

 

Washington - master of preseason and only getting on the field when a Fade is necessary... rookie stats 5 catches 52 yards 1 TD

 

D. Harris - Entire purpose is ST. After 4 years in a pass-happy Dallas offense Harris amassed a whopping 33 catches for 418 yards. Potential? Yes. Security if Cruz goes down for a 3rd season in a row? I don't think so.

 

M. Harris - Barely know him. Injured all last season.

 

Ogletree - See D. Harris... 7 years in the NFL 88 catches for 1099 yards and 6 TDs. Was let go by Dallas after he was passed on the depth chart by... Dwayne Harris. Really?

 

Anyone else on the roster atm is nothing more than fodder imo. I don't see anything secure about this list. I'm not gonna sit here and say we absolutely have to go WR in the 1st round, but if a Cooper or White is on the board at 9 we need to take them.

 

I don't think anyone is discounting the need to improve the WR position... the debate is that should WR be our #1 focus... Many posters here myself included don't think WR is our most glaring need not when you nave no one opposite of JPP (is Moore ready), and no one at Safety and the OL is in need of a player for the next 10 years.. this is our chance. to do that.

 

I'm leaning DE for the following reasons:

 

- Spags.

- JPP may very well be gone next year anyway.

- Run contain was one of our most glaring and embarrassing weaknesses last year.

 

I can see us taking AJ Cann in the 2nd round to solidify the OL

 

Third round We can go Safety and maybe WR... safety is a huge need too.. more than WR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not just that Randle's a UFA... remember next offseason we're gonna have Prince, JPP and Eli ALL as UFAs unless we make moves on them sometime prior to the end of the season. That's gonna be $50m of our salary cap right there.

 

My other case for a WR... money. Pair OBJ up with a very good yet very inexpensive partner for the next 4 years while we get our cap straightened out.

 

The more I look at next year, the more I think that we lose at least 1 of those 3, if not 2. You know Eli will be the first of those 3 they keep. I would hope that Prince would be the second. I have to believe JPP is as good as gone after 2015. And that all is regardless of what we do in the draft this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't think anyone is discounting the need to improve the WR position... the debate is that should WR be our #1 focus... Many posters here myself included don't think WR is our most glaring need not when you nave no one opposite of JPP (is Moore ready), and no one at Safety and the OL is in need of a player for the next 10 years.. this is our chance. to do that.

 

I actually suggested that the more I look at it, the less inclined I am to take a WR at all in the draft this year...certainly not in the top 4 rounds where I believe we should hit focus Oline, Dline, LB and S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I actually suggested that the more I look at it, the less inclined I am to take a WR at all in the draft this year...certainly not in the top 4 rounds where I believe we should hit focus Oline, Dline, LB and S

 

Your insight is always spot on... Sometimes I cheat by reading your remarks :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Your insight is always spot on... Sometimes I cheat by reading your remarks :)

 

In all honesty though, I'm a little torn. For a while now, I've been thinking of Danny Shelton in the first due to our run defense and the fact that Scherff is viewed as a OG. But there were comments here the other day about having Hankins, Jenkins, Kuhn, and Bromley on the roster already. And given Bromley didn't see much time, we need to give him a chance to see what he can do before we essentially replace him. That said, our run defense needs help...not to mention we need insurance for next offseason when (not necessarily an IF anymore in my opinion) JPP leaves. And DE would be more of a need than DT. So I'm really 2nd guessing my pick in the first and leaning back towards Scherff at OT with a DE coming in the second.

 

Further, if you read Dan Graziano (I know, not the best beat writer in the world, but one of ESPN's regulars) he brings up the point of resource allocation being too focused on one position. And by resources, he refers not only to salary cap, but includes high level draft picks in that discussion. While I don't agree with everything he says, I think it's a valid argument to make.

 

For example, we're paying Cruz a lot of money. We have a first rounder (OBJ) and second rounder (Randle) as well. While the salary cap implications aren't out of the park (yet), adding in the high level picks...you have a lot of resources devoted to the WR position. Adding another WR in the early rounds this year could tip the scales too heavily in favor of one position on the team. Similarly, the same discussion can be applied to the offensive line and the LACK of resources devoted to it in the years prior to Pugh being drafted.

 

I've actually started considering Scherff in the first round AND Cann in the second this year. Having Scherff, Cann, Westburg, and Pugh all as draftees for the foreseeable future is awfully appealing and it would seem to make up for the lack of resources devoted to the offensive line in years past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

In all honesty though, I'm a little torn. For a while now, I've been thinking of Danny Shelton in the first due to our run defense and the fact that Scherff is viewed as a OG. But there were comments here the other day about having Hankins, Jenkins, Kuhn, and Bromley on the roster already. And given Bromley didn't see much time, we need to give him a chance to see what he can do before we essentially replace him. That said, our run defense needs help...not to mention we need insurance for next offseason when (not necessarily an IF anymore in my opinion) JPP leaves. And DE would be more of a need than DT. So I'm really 2nd guessing my pick in the first and leaning back towards Scherff at OT with a DE coming in the second.

 

Further, if you read Dan Graziano (I know, not the best beat writer in the world, but one of ESPN's regulars) he brings up the point of resource allocation being too focused on one position. And by resources, he refers not only to salary cap, but includes high level draft picks in that discussion. While I don't agree with everything he says, I think it's a valid argument to make.

 

For example, we're paying Cruz a lot of money. We have a first rounder (OBJ) and second rounder (Randle) as well. While the salary cap implications aren't out of the park (yet), adding in the high level picks...you have a lot of resources devoted to the WR position. Adding another WR in the early rounds this year could tip the scales too heavily in favor of one position on the team. Similarly, the same discussion can be applied to the offensive line and the LACK of resources devoted to it in the years prior to Pugh being drafted.

 

I've actually started considering Scherff in the first round AND Cann in the second this year. Having Scherff, Cann, Westburg, and Pugh all as draftees for the foreseeable future is awfully appealing and it would seem to make up for the lack of resources devoted to the offensive line in years past.

 

I honestly don't think we can go wrong with Scherff and Cann... I just think our DLine can use a guy like Dupree which is why I think we go Dupree, Cann, Best Safety available, best WR or TE available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My main reason for wanting a safety is because of how well Mook and DRC played last year when they were actually on the field together. We've invested heavily at CB and our secondary could be a real dominant force on D but we need a solid S or that all goes to shit. I'm not sold on either Cooper or Behrle as starters. Maybe one of them, but not both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something that kind of fell through the cracks during all this pre-draft talk - is the last year towards the end of the season, Kerry Wynn became our starting DE for the last 3 games. He was good against the run and credited with 1.5 sacks in limited play as well as an interception that he returned for 7 yards.

 

Wynn has the right size for a 4-3 DE being 6'5" and about 270 lbs. No one would confuse him with a "tweener LB/DE". He was an UDFA that looked good in preseason and stuck.

 

Also, Robert Ayers will be back and he looked good before his torn pec muscle sidelined him and he's only 29 years old. A good year left on the tires.

 

So if Bromley comes around - and he looked good when he got some touches - we shouldn't be that bad of shape on the d-line. The knock on Bromley was that he's more of a pass rushing DT than a run blocker - but we picked up Kenrick Ellis whose forte is stuffing the run, to play alongside Hankins. Which reminds me, that Hankins didn't play a lot his first year, just like Bromley in his first year.

 

Regardless - our d-line isn't as bad as our o-line where the glaring hole (to me anyway) is Jerry. He should be used only as a backup in extreme cases and not as our starter. Whether we go with a legit tackle and move Pugh inside, or take a legit guard like Scherff - I can't make that call. But whatever the case, I believe we are one stud player on the o-line for it to become a dominant force. I'd like to think the Giants FO is considering grooming someone to replace Beatty in a couple of years as he is 30 now and his skills won't get better with age at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something that kind of fell through the cracks during all this pre-draft talk - is the last year towards the end of the season, Kerry Wynn became our starting DE for the last 3 games. He was good against the run and credited with 1.5 sacks in limited play as well as an interception that he returned for 7 yards.

 

Wynn has the right size for a 4-3 DE being 6'5" and about 270 lbs. No one would confuse him with a "tweener LB/DE". He was an UDFA that looked good in preseason and stuck.

 

Also, Robert Ayers will be back and he looked good before his torn pec muscle sidelined him and he's only 29 years old. A good year left on the tires.

 

So if Bromley comes around - and he looked good when he got some touches - we shouldn't be that bad of shape on the d-line. The knock on Bromley was that he's more of a pass rushing DT than a run blocker - but we picked up Kenrick Ellis whose forte is stuffing the run, to play alongside Hankins. Which reminds me, that Hankins didn't play a lot his first year, just like Bromley in his first year.

 

Regardless - our d-line isn't as bad as our o-line where the glaring hole (to me anyway) is Jerry. He should be used only as a backup in extreme cases and not as our starter. Whether we go with a legit tackle and move Pugh inside, or take a legit guard like Scherff - I can't make that call. But whatever the case, I believe we are one stud player on the o-line for it to become a dominant force. I'd like to think the Giants FO is considering grooming someone to replace Beatty in a couple of years as he is 30 now and his skills won't get better with age at this point.

 

Pretty much agree with everything here. But despite guys stepping up and filling in at places, the depth behind them then grows thin.

 

Glaring holes are truly at Guard and Safety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't think we can go wrong with Scherff and Cann... I just think our DLine can use a guy like Dupree which is why I think we go Dupree, Cann, Best Safety available, best WR or TE available.

I wouldn't be mad at that if a guy like Rashad Greene (yes I'm a FSU Homer) is still around but I doubt he makes it to the 3rd round, let alone the 4th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much agree with everything here. But despite guys stepping up and filling in at places, the depth behind them then grows thin.

 

Glaring holes are truly at Guard and Safety.

Agree. Just pointing out to some that an edge rushing DE and run stopping DT might not be as important a need as a couple other places. I would love to see us pick up a legitimate 4-3 DE like Odighizuwa in the 2nd (if he's still there) or Anthony Chickillo in maybe the 4th or 5th if some other 4-3 team hasn't snagged him.

 

The problem with Landon Collins is that he's perhaps the "best of the lot", but he in no way is a pro-bowl caliber safety. If you burn a top ten pick on a safety, it better be the second coming of Sean Taylor.

 

A few more hours and we'll finally throw our fists in the air and yell "Yeah" or sit dumbfounded saying, "wtf". Can't wait

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...