The Good, The Bad and The Ugly: Week 1

[Sephiroth]

Not for nothing, but Jerry Palmieri started strength and conditioning in the 80's. In that time training methods have changed, supplements have changed, nutrition has changed... but it wouldn't surprise me if Palmieri's training methods have remained largely the same.

 

I cut down on my own personal training injuries just by doing the P90x pre and post workout stretches. My back literally was fucked up for six years before I started doing them... in nine months, I've had no back problems.

 

It's not time for new blood there. It was time for new blood there back in 2006. We're ALWAYS injured, and Coughlin's Jacksonville teams were undone by injuries as well... guess who the conditioning coach was. This shit has to stop.

[Treehugger]

Which suppliment prevents a cleat to the hamstring.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

 

He landed in the best possible situation. He should send the Giants a thank you note. It's like getting fired, feeling like the world is ending, and then finding your dream job. Donnell was the leading receiver. Maybe the Giants will have another year with no WR having a TD (the great Toomer - Hilliard year again).

So right Brah... Its hilarious...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

 

Not to mention let's look at the stats of Nicks vs Cruz, the year Nicks was "dogging it"

 

Nicks finished with 896 yard, 56 receptions, his longest being 57 yards. He has 38 first downs, 14 plays of 20+ yards and 4 plays of 40+ yards and he missed a game.

 

Cruz finished with 998 yards, 73 receptions, his longest being 70 yards. He finished with 45 first downs, 10 plays of 20+ yards and 3 plays of 40+ yards as well as four TDs.

 

If people honestly though that Nicks was "dogging" I question them to tell me what the fuck our top 10 paid WR Cruz was doing that year.

Posing for his clothing line...

[Nas]

Which suppliment prevents a cleat to the hamstring.

 

Technically a cleat to hamstring shouldn't cause a tare or a pull... now I'm not a starnger to hamstring injuries and they only started as I got older (and became more stiff). once I was running full speed on a kickoff (being the gunner basically) and there was no one around me within a 20 yard radius... all my friends talk about is how I suddenly palnted face first in mid field like a rock. Not realizing I had fucked up my hammy worse than any other time before one of my friends ( a big dude) is walking towards me yelling trying to toughen me up... yelling at me to "get the fuck up get the fuck up"... while my face is still planted in the turn in pain and my hamstring feeling like a knotted mess, this kid fucking kicks me right on the injury talk about a double whammy.

[Treehugger]

He had blood in the tendon Nas, it wasn't just a pulled muscle.

[Tempest]

Not for nothing, but Jerry Palmieri started strength and conditioning in the 80's. In that time training methods have changed, supplements have changed, nutrition has changed... but it wouldn't surprise me if Palmieri's training methods have remained largely the same.

 

I cut down on my own personal training injuries just by doing the P90x pre and post workout stretches. My back literally was fucked up for six years before I started doing them... in nine months, I've had no back problems.

 

It's not time for new blood there. It was time for new blood there back in 2006. We're ALWAYS injured, and Coughlin's Jacksonville teams were undone by injuries as well... guess who the conditioning coach was. This shit has to stop.

 

which has also created injuries when done improperly...

[RandolphScott]

Are we still talking about Hakeem Nicks? Jesus Christ, give it a fucking rest. He's not on the team any longer, holy crap.

 

Anyways, so glad Stevie Brown is back...can't wait for him to blow other coverages that lead to wide outs being 40 yards behind the nearest defender.

 

Will Hill, I fucking hate you.

[Bigblue25]

Brown, Rolle and Demps all in contract years. I'm hoping the Giants go after Rahim Moore in free agency

[Herc]

yeah we'll probably just talk about who we want

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

So there...

 

[Herc]

also because i keep seeing this nonsense everywhere around here: in 2012 stevie brown was statistically a plus cover safety and plus in pass rush. barely below average in run defense. it's 2014, nobody doesn't get burned

[CrazedDogs]

yeah we'll probably just talk about who we want

 

lol, nice

 

 

also because i keep seeing this nonsense everywhere around here: in 2012 stevie brown was statistically a plus cover safety and plus in pass rush. barely below average in run defense. it's 2014, nobody doesn't get burned

 

oh look, finally a reason for optimism.

[Herc]

he's good, not great. he's a downgrade from will hill but we could do much worse than someone who opposing qbs had a 71.3 qb rating against in 2012

[JMFP]

Not for nothing, but Jerry Palmieri started strength and conditioning in the 80's. In that time training methods have changed, supplements have changed, nutrition has changed... but it wouldn't surprise me if Palmieri's training methods have remained largely the same.

 

I cut down on my own personal training injuries just by doing the P90x pre and post workout stretches. My back literally was fucked up for six years before I started doing them... in nine months, I've had no back problems.

 

It's not time for new blood there. It was time for new blood there back in 2006. We're ALWAYS injured, and Coughlin's Jacksonville teams were undone by injuries as well... guess who the conditioning coach was. This shit has to stop.

 

 

Got to give Chip Kelly credit.....2nd least injured team last year, and while I'll agree that certain injuries cannot be prevented, certain other injuries can.

 

Fatigue affects form....improper form can lead to more on-field injuries.

[Nas]

 

 

Got to give Chip Kelly credit.....2nd least injured team last year, and while I'll agree that certain injuries cannot be prevented, certain other injuries can.

 

Fatigue affects form....improper form can lead to more on-field injuries.

 

Ayub... TC still holds on to the mentality of "suck it up and drive on"...

[Tempest]

 

Ayub... TC still holds on to the mentality of "suck it up and drive on"...

 

One of the reasons why people said Hire Coughlin and he said he could and would cut down on injuries. Go figure that hasn't happened every year since he has been hired. We shoud be down to 0 guys injured at any time since we had 7 people on IR total in 2003. We already have 5 on IR and we're in week 2.

[Allstarjim]

I thought I read something this season about the Giants embracing the wearable technology that tracks those fatigue factors as well. I don't think Tom is so old school is isn't open to new ideas. Let's not get crazy about Tom. He had a major flaw in his coaching philosophy, he was open to change, and he won two Super Bowls. When it's all said and done Tom will be up there in the pantheon of Giant greats.

 

I think what we've seen in prior season and in the first game this year is that Cruz is not a #1 receiver, something that was debated here and on the other site 2 years ago. That being said, he's not actuallly making big time #1 receiver money. Don't get me wrong, more than what he's probably really worth, and it's nothing to sneeze at. But he's making something like $4 million this year, of course he got about a $9 mil bonus that's spread out. I believe next year it jumps to $7 million. His base salary this year is ranked 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. Those ahead of him on the list... Brian Hartline, Nate Washington, Pierre Garcon, and Marques Colston. His cap hit for 2014 is 11th among wide receivers, sandwiched in between Colston and Greg Jennings.

 

Did the Giants overpay Cruz? Yeah, I think so. Did they grossly overpay? No. What they need to do now is find another legit #1 receiver to play across from him. I'm not sure that's Beckham, and I had hopes for Randle but that is now dwindling, as he looked like he was running in mud last Monday night.

 

But if you are looking for optimism, and someone that comes very cheap at least for the next few seasons, look at Corey Washington. We won't know until he gets more reps, though. I want to see this kid play. I think the Giants may have found another diamond in the rough. If Washington becomes what I think he can become, then the Giants can have a pretty good trio of receivers with him, Beckham, and Cruz in the slot (where he belongs). And Randle? We'll see.

 

Back to Cruz, with him playing on the outside, anytime, is analogous to moving a catcher like Joe Mauer to first base. So at his best, Joe is a .300 hitter with some pop... GREAT for a catcher, a huge advantage at that position. Move him to first? He doesn't look as good. First baseman are expected to bring a lot more power to the position and be a big RBI guy, and so you lose that positional advantage. Same with Cruz... great in the slot... just pretty good on the outside, where physicality and size play bigger roles in determining success or failure.

 

As far as Nicks goes, wasn't there an internal leak about Nicks not being where he was supposed to be in terms of practices and meetings at the scheduled times... and gave little effort between Sundays? I love Nicks, and agree he was our greatest receiver (in my lifetime) to don a Giants' uni. But I think the Giants put a premium on getting and keeping players who had character and have fire in their belly to succeed and win. Like I said, I'm a Nicks fan. But I can't disagree with the Giants' philosophy of letting players leave (Tuck, Nicks, etc), who were not the right kind of example in terms of having the winning attitude every day. I know that's a controversial statement, especially including Tuck in that group, but taking the temperature of the organization when he was low-balled, I don't think the Giants really wanted him back.

 

I think the Giants need a cohesive, effective offensive line, and they need to figure out the x and z receiver spots definitively and powerfully, and stop with the nonsense of Cruz or Jernigan being the 'Z' guy... both of them are slot guys. It's a lot to work on for this team, and until it's figured out, we won't see an offense like we saw in our opponent on Monday night. Patience is definitely in order, though. I want to give McAdoo a chance. I'm going to save my outrage until week 9, where I think by then we should see more of an improvement.

[JMFP]

I thought I read something this season about the Giants embracing the wearable technology that tracks those fatigue factors as well. I don't think Tom is so old school is isn't open to new ideas. Let's not get crazy about Tom. He had a major flaw in his coaching philosophy, he was open to change, and he won two Super Bowls. When it's all said and done Tom will be up there in the pantheon of Giant greats.

 

I think what we've seen in prior season and in the first game this year is that Cruz is not a #1 receiver, something that was debated here and on the other site 2 years ago. That being said, he's not actuallly making big time #1 receiver money. Don't get me wrong, more than what he's probably really worth, and it's nothing to sneeze at. But he's making something like $4 million this year, of course he got about a $9 mil bonus that's spread out. I believe next year it jumps to $7 million. His base salary this year is ranked 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. Those ahead of him on the list... Brian Hartline, Nate Washington, Pierre Garcon, and Marques Colston. His cap hit for 2014 is 11th among wide receivers, sandwiched in between Colston and Greg Jennings.

 

Did the Giants overpay Cruz? Yeah, I think so. Did they grossly overpay? No. What they need to do now is find another legit #1 receiver to play across from him. I'm not sure that's Beckham, and I had hopes for Randle but that is now dwindling, as he looked like he was running in mud last Monday night.

 

But if you are looking for optimism, and someone that comes very cheap at least for the next few seasons, look at Corey Washington. We won't know until he gets more reps, though. I want to see this kid play. I think the Giants may have found another diamond in the rough. If Washington becomes what I think he can become, then the Giants can have a pretty good trio of receivers with him, Beckham, and Cruz in the slot (where he belongs). And Randle? We'll see.

 

Back to Cruz, with him playing on the outside, anytime, is analogous to moving a catcher like Joe Mauer to first base. So at his best, Joe is a .300 hitter with some pop... GREAT for a catcher, a huge advantage at that position. Move him to first? He doesn't look as good. First baseman are expected to bring a lot more power to the position and be a big RBI guy, and so you lose that positional advantage. Same with Cruz... great in the slot... just pretty good on the outside, where physicality and size play bigger roles in determining success or failure.

 

As far as Nicks goes, wasn't there an internal leak about Nicks not being where he was supposed to be in terms of practices and meetings at the scheduled times... and gave little effort between Sundays? I love Nicks, and agree he was our greatest receiver (in my lifetime) to don a Giants' uni. But I think the Giants put a premium on getting and keeping players who had character and have fire in their belly to succeed and win. Like I said, I'm a Nicks fan. But I can't disagree with the Giants' philosophy of letting players leave (Tuck, Nicks, etc), who were not the right kind of example in terms of having the winning attitude every day. I know that's a controversial statement, especially including Tuck in that group, but taking the temperature of the organization when he was low-balled, I don't think the Giants really wanted him back.

 

I think the Giants need a cohesive, effective offensive line, and they need to figure out the x and z receiver spots definitively and powerfully, and stop with the nonsense of Cruz or Jernigan being the 'Z' guy... both of them are slot guys. It's a lot to work on for this team, and until it's figured out, we won't see an offense like we saw in our opponent on Monday night. Patience is definitely in order, though. I want to give McAdoo a chance. I'm going to save my outrage until week 9, where I think by then we should see more of an improvement.

 

Great analysis, Jim.

 

Just to be clear, my worries aren't about Coughlin at all. I'm more worried that he's not getting the guys he needs to be successful.

 

I'm also not a big fan of Fewell's Tampa 2, and I'll rag on Coughlin for that choice.

 

McAdoo gets an "Incomplete" at this early stage.

[NightFire]

The first month is like extended pre-season so it's definitely not panick mode yet. Teams like the Bills and Dophins upsets are very common in week 1. There are always teams that surprise in September that crash and burn. If the Giants go 0-5 again though it's going to be game over on the season especially since Coughlin always fades in December.

[Nas]

I thought I read something this season about the Giants embracing the wearable technology that tracks those fatigue factors as well. I don't think Tom is so old school is isn't open to new ideas. Let's not get crazy about Tom. He had a major flaw in his coaching philosophy, he was open to change, and he won two Super Bowls. When it's all said and done Tom will be up there in the pantheon of Giant greats.

 

I think what we've seen in prior season and in the first game this year is that Cruz is not a #1 receiver, something that was debated here and on the other site 2 years ago. That being said, he's not actuallly making big time #1 receiver money. Don't get me wrong, more than what he's probably really worth, and it's nothing to sneeze at. But he's making something like $4 million this year, of course he got about a $9 mil bonus that's spread out. I believe next year it jumps to $7 million. His base salary this year is ranked 14th in the NFL among wide receivers. Those ahead of him on the list... Brian Hartline, Nate Washington, Pierre Garcon, and Marques Colston. His cap hit for 2014 is 11th among wide receivers, sandwiched in between Colston and Greg Jennings.

 

Did the Giants overpay Cruz? Yeah, I think so. Did they grossly overpay? No. What they need to do now is find another legit #1 receiver to play across from him. I'm not sure that's Beckham, and I had hopes for Randle but that is now dwindling, as he looked like he was running in mud last Monday night.

 

But if you are looking for optimism, and someone that comes very cheap at least for the next few seasons, look at Corey Washington. We won't know until he gets more reps, though. I want to see this kid play. I think the Giants may have found another diamond in the rough. If Washington becomes what I think he can become, then the Giants can have a pretty good trio of receivers with him, Beckham, and Cruz in the slot (where he belongs). And Randle? We'll see.

 

Back to Cruz, with him playing on the outside, anytime, is analogous to moving a catcher like Joe Mauer to first base. So at his best, Joe is a .300 hitter with some pop... GREAT for a catcher, a huge advantage at that position. Move him to first? He doesn't look as good. First baseman are expected to bring a lot more power to the position and be a big RBI guy, and so you lose that positional advantage. Same with Cruz... great in the slot... just pretty good on the outside, where physicality and size play bigger roles in determining success or failure.

 

As far as Nicks goes, wasn't there an internal leak about Nicks not being where he was supposed to be in terms of practices and meetings at the scheduled times... and gave little effort between Sundays? I love Nicks, and agree he was our greatest receiver (in my lifetime) to don a Giants' uni. But I think the Giants put a premium on getting and keeping players who had character and have fire in their belly to succeed and win. Like I said, I'm a Nicks fan. But I can't disagree with the Giants' philosophy of letting players leave (Tuck, Nicks, etc), who were not the right kind of example in terms of having the winning attitude every day. I know that's a controversial statement, especially including Tuck in that group, but taking the temperature of the organization when he was low-balled, I don't think the Giants really wanted him back.

 

I think the Giants need a cohesive, effective offensive line, and they need to figure out the x and z receiver spots definitively and powerfully, and stop with the nonsense of Cruz or Jernigan being the 'Z' guy... both of them are slot guys. It's a lot to work on for this team, and until it's figured out, we won't see an offense like we saw in our opponent on Monday night. Patience is definitely in order, though. I want to give McAdoo a chance. I'm going to save my outrage until week 9, where I think by then we should see more of an improvement.

 

Not ragging on Coughlin per se.. he too earned his stripes.. however no one is without flaws and my knock against him is he rushes players back to the field... hindsight is 20/20... and though Nicks didn't help matters with the way he carried himsefl last year... Nicks may just be "the one that got away"... I just never understood why Cruz getting a good contract seem to bother him... and why he looked like he hafl-assed it... we don't know what went on...

 

Fewel... is mediocre.. his D can be great till it's 3rd and long... and he gets timid...

[Herc]

you don't know that it bothered him nas, you're presenting about 45 of your assumptions as facts in that post.

 

as for cruz not being paid like a #1 wide receiver, on a per year basis he is the 11th highest paid wide receiver in football. just because his salary this season was structured in such a way that he has a low cap number doesn't mean he's not being paid as a number 1 wide receiver. he makes more than antonio brown for christ sake

[BlueInCanada]

you don't know that it bothered him nas, you're presenting about 45 of your assumptions as facts in that post.

 

as for cruz not being paid like a #1 wide receiver, on a per year basis he is the 11th highest paid wide receiver in football. just because his salary this season was structured in such a way that he has a low cap number doesn't mean he's not being paid as a number 1 wide receiver. he makes more than antonio brown for christ sake

 

Fuck Cruz is making more money then this year than either Rodney White or Julio Jones (who I think are the best WR combo in the league) both those guys are number one WR threats. Cruz is making 7.4 mil, White is 6.2 and Jones is 5.1.

 

I'd switch Cruz with either of those guys any day of the week.

 

Cruz is getting paid on a year by year basis as a top 15 WR, and he can barely outplay an nickle corner.

[Storm]

 

Fuck Cruz is making more money then this year than either Rodney White or Julio Jones (who I think are the best WR combo in the league) both those guys are number one WR threats. Cruz is making 7.4 mil, White is 6.2 and Jones is 5.1.

 

I'd switch Cruz with either of those guys any day of the week.

 

Cruz is getting paid on a year by year basis as a top 15 WR, and he can barely outplay an nickle corner.

 

Yeah, he's making more than Roddy White, too!

 

You'd choose White and Jones over Marshall and Jeffery? That's a toss-up, but I'd go Marshall and Jeffery...

[Allstarjim]

you don't know that it bothered him nas, you're presenting about 45 of your assumptions as facts in that post.

 

as for cruz not being paid like a #1 wide receiver, on a per year basis he is the 11th highest paid wide receiver in football. just because his salary this season was structured in such a way that he has a low cap number doesn't mean he's not being paid as a number 1 wide receiver. he makes more than antonio brown for christ sake

 

Oh I agree... but I said BIG TIME #1 WR money. He's not making it. His cap number is $7.4 Mil. That's a lot of money, and as I said, he's overpaid. But the top 6 WR's cap number is all over $11 mil per. So that is a significant difference. One of those guys is Percy Harvin, btw.