The Good, The Bad and The Ugly: Week 1

[gmenroc]

Eh, if a player can be cut at any time without a guaranteed contract, I don't have a problem necessarily if they want to negotiate for a higher salary given their performance. It's a shame that the only bargaining chip a player has is holding out.

 

In the NFL, the teams often hold all the cards...so for that reason, my usual stance (you signed the deal, you should honor it) is a little more relaxed.

[Nas]

Eh, if a player can be cut at any time without a guaranteed contract, I don't have a problem necessarily if they want to negotiate for a higher salary given their performance. It's a shame that the only bargaining chip a player has is holding out.

 

In the NFL, the teams often hold all the cards...so for that reason, my usual stance (you signed the deal, you should honor it) is a little more relaxed.

 

I can agree with that.. but I can also see why a player can play his cards right by keeping his play at high level...

[Herc]

 

That's actually what I'm getting at... I have no strong opinion about Cruz's contract.. but someone else's contract shouldn't be a point of contention for you when you're still under contract. His payday was coming up and I have no idea what was going thru his mind... There's no doubt he would have gotten more money than Cruz had his play didn't plummet.. but it did..

 

And as far as trying to get more while still under contract, I think it's just unprofessional.. I get other players do it... and it still doesn't' make it right... and the Giants weren't in good shape cap-wise and they needed Nicks to be a trooper and he would have gotten his payday...

 

his play didn't plummet though. i've explained this many times.

 

if you have career highs in plays over 20+ yards and average yards per catch then your play isn't plummeting nor have you lost a step.

 

if your o-line sucks, that probably means that your qb has no time to wait for your routes to develop and lo and behold his targets dropped by 33%.

 

if you catch only 55% of your targets but only dropped 5% that means a lot of your targets are completely uncatchable. is anybody going to argue that eli's accuracy wasn't WAY down last season? only when it doesn't pertain to nicks apparently.

 

so targets are down and uncatchable balls are up yet the guy still had 900 yards in 15 games with career highs in statistics that indicate explosiveness. and now he's back to doing his thing in game 1 in a better situation with a qb who doesn't need a great o-line to make plays and a bunch of wide receivers who don't need him to attract attention so they can get open.

 

i have no idea what you mean by "trying to get more while under contract". he never held out or asked for a raise, he never publicly griped about not getting an extention, he never bitched about cruz's contract, he doesn't media whore (which is why they dump on him btw), the guy says NOTHING and just goes to work. how is a guy who produces from day 1, wins you a superbowl, and plays on one leg the year before a contract season all while keeping his headdown, staying out of trouble and not saying stupid thing to the media NOT a good trooper? he had nothing left to prove to this organization after 2011 and he should've gotten an extention the day after the parade.

 

and i'm not going to go as far as to call the giants front office "scum bags", but they're not saints either. ask ahmad bradshaw or jim fassel what it's like on your way out of here

[gmenroc]

 

I can agree with that.. but I can also see why a player can play his cards right by keeping his play at high level...

 

No doubt that if you decide to play, you play at your highest level. If you decide to hold out, then hold out. Half assing it is the worst.

[JMFP]

Here's my take on Week 1:

 

The decision to pass on Zack Martin in favor of Beckhamstring is looking worse every week. And just as was the case with JPP when he opted for back surgery at the start of training camp, I’ve officially written off Beckham as a contributor this season.

 

I’m also officially in the camp that our strength/conditioning staff sucks…..I’m done with writing off all the injuries to “bad luck” every season. The biggest new addition to the offense (Beckham) screws up his hamstring…..the guy who is supposed to replace Snee (Mosley) can’t make it on to the field because of back spasms?.....seriously, what the fuck is going on in the training and weight rooms? The stat they flashed was astounding – 46 new starters during 2013….that’s insane. And 1^st game of the year, and the Giants are already banged up. I can’t place the blame solidly on the training staff, but I can DEFINITELY say they aren’t part of the solution

 

Beatty sucks….plain and simple, he blows. Turns out Richburg, a rookie center forced into action AT GUARD, was one of the better guys out there. If that doesn’t speak to the need of drafting OL in the first two rounds, nothing does. I’ve said this ad nauseam, but you can go RB/WR in the mid to late rounds. In case Reese hasn’t noticed, the defensive linemen are going in rounds 1,2,3….besides QBs, they are among the most sought-after players in the draft. So it stands to reason that if you are building an offensive line that has to protect against the best defensive linemen in the NCAA, might be a good idea to get the best offensive linemen coming out of the NCAA.

 

The exception to this of course is Beatty (2nd round pick), who as I mentioned, sucks donkey ass. Just another case of Reese’s Magic Beans haunting us. The college report on Beatty was “good athlete that might lack the toughness to play against elite pass rushers.” All Reese heard was “good athlete” and the rest sounded like Charlie Brown’s teacher.

 

Cruz wants the ball….I say give it to him. My knock on McAdoo might be that he’s throwing too much at Eli at once. I don’t like the fact that Eli has to learn a new system and new footwork as well. Again, I’m an armchair QB, so maybe both are required, and I’m talking out of my ass. But I think the focus should be to get the pass out as quickly as possible, and the less Eli has to think about, the better.

 

I also think the no-huddle works well, and Eli shouldn’t be changing jack shit at the line anymore until there is some evidence that everyone is on the same page. If the play isn’t there, dump it off to Jennings and let him create positive yards.

 

I’ve never been a huge Fewell fan, but at the same time, Detroit is absolutely loaded on offense. Still though, I would much prefer a Spags approach to crap I saw last Monday…..soft zones for Johnson, Bush, and Tate to abuse. J-Will lacks toughness…..great cover guy, but I’m convinced he’s basically a cornerback playing linebacker.

 

Stevie Brown has me worried….the angle he took on that 1^st Johnson bomb was awful. Let’s hope it’s a case of shaking out the cobwebs.

 

Again, defending Detroit is a rough draw, but Coughlin has to talk to Fewell about becoming more fucking aggressive…..this sit back and let the play come to us shit has to end, because when it’s 3^rd and long I am convinced the Giants will come up with the scheme to give the team the conversion…..it’s driving me bonkers.

 

Hankins is a stud.

 

I think Giants fans have a pretty good assessment of Kiwanuka at this point…….how about we see what Damontre Moore can do before this season is officially flushed down the toilet?

[Nas]

Here's my take on Week 1:

 

The decision to pass on Zack Martin in favor of Beckhamstring is looking worse every week. And just as was the case with JPP when he opted for back surgery at the start of training camp, I’ve officially written off Beckham as a contributor this season.

 

I’m also officially in the camp that our strength/conditioning staff sucks…..I’m done with writing off all the injuries to “back luck” every season. The biggest new addition to the offense (Beckham) screws up his hamstring…..the guy who is supposed to replace Snee (Mosley) can’t make it on to the field because of back spasms?.....seriously, what the fuck is going on in the training and weight rooms? The stat they flashed was astounding – 46 new starters during 2013….that’s insane. And 1^st game of the year, and the Giants are already banged up. I can’t place the blame solidly on the training staff, but I can DEFINITELY say they aren’t part of the solution

 

Beatty sucks….plain and simple, he blows. Turns out Richburg, a rookie center forced into action AT GUARD, was one of the better guys out there. If that doesn’t speak to the need of drafting OL in the first two rounds, nothing does. I’ve said this ad nauseam, but you can go RB/WR in the mid to late rounds. In case Reese hasn’t noticed, the defensive lineman are going in rounds 1,2,3….besides QBs, they are among the most sought-after players in the draft. So it stands to reason that if you are building an offensive line that has to protect against the best defensive lineman in the NCAA, might be a good idea to get the best offensive linemen coming out of the NCAA.

 

The exception to this of course is Beatty, who as I mentioned, sucks donkey ass. Another case of Reese’s Magic Beans haunting us. The college report on Beatty was “good athlete that might lack the toughness to play against elite pass rushers.” All Reese heard was “good athlete” and the rest sounded like Charlie Brown’s teacher.

 

Cruz wants the ball….I say give it to him. My knock on McAdoo might be that he’s throwing too much at Eli at once. I don’t like the fact that Eli has to learn a new system and new footwork as well. Again, I’m an armchair QB, so maybe both are required, and I’m talking out of my ass. But I think the focus should be to get the pass out as quickly as possible, and the less Eli has to think about, the better.

 

I also think the no-huddle works well, and Eli shouldn’t be changing jack shit at the line anymore until there is some evidence that everyone is on the same page. If the play isn’t there, dump it off to Jennings and let him create positive yards.

 

I’ve never been a huge Fewell fan, but at the same time, Detroit is absolutely loaded on offense. Still though, I would much prefer a Spags approach to crap I saw last Monday…..soft zones for Johnson, Bush, and Tate to abuse. J-Will lacks toughness…..great cover guy, but I’m convinced he’s basically a cornerback playing linebacker.

 

Stevie Brown has me worried….the angle he took on that 1^st Johnson bomb was awful. Let’s hope it’s a case of shaking out the cobwebs.

 

Again, defending Detroit is a rough draw, but Coughlin has to talk to Fewell about becoming more fucking aggressive…..this sit back and let the play come to us shit has to end, because when it’s 3^rd and long I am convinced the Giants will come up with the scheme to give the team the conversion…..it’s driving me bonkers.

 

Hankins is a stud.

 

I think Giants fans have a pretty good assessment of Kiwanuka at this point…….how about we see what Damontre Moore can do before this season is officially flushed down the toilet?

 

Agreed 100%. I'm tired of going for flashy players in the 1st when the big guys seem to always go in those rounds... Nothing against Beckam.. he may turn out to be great for us... but for the love of god those injuries need to fucking stop... and old Tom needs to learn that injuries need TIME to heal... no it's not "in your head"... that military mentality doesn't work... in the military you're needed to fight a fucking battle that maybe lost.. in the NFL, having one leg means you're not contributing at all.

[Herc]

on injuries:

 

Despite his reputation for both innovation and secrecy, Kelly is surprisingly open about his X’s and O’s. He even participated in a series of videos for the Eagles’ team website last season in which he candidly explained specific plays and the strategies behind them. But there are two subjects he refuses to openly discuss: his no-huddle communication system and the particulars of how the Eagles use sports science.

The former makes sense: Why would Kelly give out his signals so that opponents could steal them? Kelly’s secrecy over his team’s sports performance and recovery methods, however, points to his belief in the powerful competitive advantage that sports science provides.

From top to bottom in the Eagles organization, the first rule of sports science seems to be “Don’t talk about sports science.” Despite the limited information at our disposal, however, here’s what we know:

• While coaching at Oregon, Kelly began investing significantly in sports science, both by bringing in outside consultants and by developing in-house expertise and technology. He built principally on research first conducted for Australian-rules football.

• Many of those studies, which have since been expanded to cover a range of sports, used heart rate, GPS, accelerometers, and gyroscope monitors worn by players in practice to determine how to train for peak game-day performance3 and how to prevent injuries.4 These studies also tracked the movements that players made in games5 so teams could mold practices and training to what players did on an individualized and position-by-position basis.

• When Kelly arrived in Philadelphia, the Eagles invested huge sums into their sports science infrastructure, and Kelly hired Shaun Huls, a sports science coordinator who’d worked for the Navy Special Warfare Command for nearly five years, training SEALs and focusing on reducing the incidence of their noncombat injuries.6

• Kelly’s team uses the latest wearable player-tracking technology, and his staff monitors the resulting data in real time to determine how players should train and when they become injury risks. “On an individualized basis we may back off,” Kelly said recently. “We may take [tight end] Brent Celek out of a team period on a Tuesday afternoon and just say, because of the scientific data we have on him, ‘We may need to give Brent a little bit of a rest.’ We monitor them very closely.”

• At least so far, it’s worked. In addition to their on-field success, the Eagles were also the second-least-injured team in the NFL last season, according to Football Outsiders.

• Just as important, the players think it works. “What happened with our players is all of a sudden when we started to get to game day every week they were like, ‘Wow, I’ve never felt this good,’” said Kelly. “And I know every guy, to a man, in December — Todd Herremans, DeMeco Ryans, Trent Cole, guys who’ve been around a long time — said I’ve never felt this great in December.”

Of course, other NFL teams have begun using sports science, and every NFL team can afford to buy the same equipment and hire the same Australian rules consultants to churn out similar data. But there’s a difference between having the data and knowing what to do with it, and Kelly and his inner circle have years of experience analyzing performance information for football. This is why Kelly is so tight-lipped: He knows that, eventually, other teams will catch up.7 But he’s not going to help them get there.

regarding aggressiveness: i don't have a solution but i read some stat that he was 6-6 for 180 yards against pressure so maybe that's why they stuck to zone. im not sure what we could've done against a qb who is that on fire, that 2nd td pass he threw to johnson was one of the best i've ever seen. he might be finally making the leap into the top tier this season

[JMFP]

 

on injuries:

 

regarding aggressiveness: i don't have a solution but i read some stat that he was 6-6 for 180 yards against pressure so maybe that's why they stuck to zone. im not sure what we could've done against a qb who is that on fire, that 2nd td pass he threw to johnson was one of the best i've ever seen. he might be finally making the leap into the top tier this season

 

 

Awesome post, and I think it reinforces my dim view of what the Giants do (and don't do).

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

 

Yeah but he didnt have a good year after being rushed back from injuries and surgery.

 

I mean in one game he has more receptions, TDs and yards then any of our WRs, I guess having a QB who throws to you and an OC who understands you don't make someone coming back from a major foot injury run go routes every fucking play.

 

I said it when we paid Cruz, we gave the money to the wrong WR and now a we have a slot WR who's more interested in selling his clothing line then trying to prove he's worth something like Nicks.

 

As you can tell I'm still pretty fucking pissed we got rid of one of the most talented WRs the Giants have had.

Exactly man... The one thing consistent about the Giants throughout the Coughlin Era is this need for rushing people back before they are fully healed... remember that dirty play against him the previous year when he was just coming back from an injury and it looked like the guy deliberately stepped on his leg... Oh what an expensive win that one was...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

D will be ok ........in fact it will be very good this year ( IMO )

 

O needs a few more weeks to gel ( especially the line ) ......but will end up being better than last year.

 

Eli looks like he is in decline ........and im getting a bit fed up of his fucking excuses in press conferences.

 

im sticking with 8-8 for now .....there is still some hope

 

UK

Agree about the Eli excuses...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

lol nicks has nothing to be jealous about other than that stupid contract the giants gave cruz (he makes more than antonio brown LOL). he produced before cruz and he's now producing without cruz. cruz on the other hand can't produce without nicks as we saw a few times the last couple of years and then again on sunday. sure were a lot of guys around him!

 

if you and others want to keep pushing this ridiculous notion that nicks is the first athlete ever to not try during a contract season then by all means have fun. all i know is that the second he got out of the giants' toxic situation and actually got the ball thrown accurately to him he caught all his targets, scored a TD and was a half yard away from a 2nd TD. the proof is in the pudding and it was evident immediately

This Big Time... Nicks knows how to catch the ball and you know what fuck the Giants if I am Nicks...you rush me back two years in a row... I get injured again both times and I am dogging it? Maybe its Giants Luck in this modern era...get a dominating WR... have him enormously help you win a Superbowl...fuck him up in meaningless games (or he fucks himself up and you treat him like he beat his wife, shot and killed her) and/or rush him back before being fully healed and have Lazer Tag Arm Eli throw up hospital balls for said WR to get crippled again. Nicks is sitting playing happy right now. All power to him...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

 

his play didn't plummet though. i've explained this many times.

 

if you have career highs in plays over 20+ yards and average yards per catch then your play isn't plummeting nor have you lost a step.

 

if your o-line sucks, that probably means that your qb has no time to wait for your routes to develop and lo and behold his targets dropped by 33%.

 

if you catch only 55% of your targets but only dropped 5% that means a lot of your targets are completely uncatchable. is anybody going to argue that eli's accuracy wasn't WAY down last season? only when it doesn't pertain to nicks apparently.

 

so targets are down and uncatchable balls are up yet the guy still had 900 yards in 15 games with career highs in statistics that indicate explosiveness. and now he's back to doing his thing in game 1 in a better situation with a qb who doesn't need a great o-line to make plays and a bunch of wide receivers who don't need him to attract attention so they can get open.

 

i have no idea what you mean by "trying to get more while under contract". he never held out or asked for a raise, he never publicly griped about not getting an extention, he never bitched about cruz's contract, he doesn't media whore (which is why they dump on him btw), the guy says NOTHING and just goes to work. how is a guy who produces from day 1, wins you a superbowl, and plays on one leg the year before a contract season all while keeping his headdown, staying out of trouble and not saying stupid thing to the media NOT a good trooper? he had nothing left to prove to this organization after 2011 and he should've gotten an extention the day after the parade.

 

and i'm not going to go as far as to call the giants front office "scum bags", but they're not saints either. ask ahmad bradshaw or jim fassel what it's like on your way out of here

As someone who studied industrial psychology...Nicks' situation is proof positive of the power of the propaganda (LIES) when repeated often enough becomes the reality. Facts mean nothing if the lies are prepackaged in easily digestible forms...

 

I have been watching the Giants since the 60's and I have yet ...YET to see a receiver on our team that was as good as Nicks during any of our eras. We really had something in him...our own version of Lynn Swann or Jerry Rice. And the stupidity of the Giants organization to just basically throw that away burns me...

[Mr. P]

Exactly man... The one thing consistent about the Giants throughout the Coughlin Era is this need for rushing people back before they are fully healed... remember that dirty play against him the previous year when he was just coming back from an injury and it looked like the guy deliberately stepped on his leg... Oh what an expensive win that one was...

 

I don't think that's entirely true.

 

You see players on every team coming back still hurting from injury.

 

 

hell just a few years ago everybody was saying the opposite, that steve smith left for the eagles, and then kenny phillips a few years later because those other teams will let them play earlier with injury than the giants, that the giants were more cautious.

 

I personally don't believe Coughlin and the giants rush guys back from injury moreso than other teams.

[UK-Giantsfan]

Joe .......that was one of the best posts in a long time .........excellent stuff ! thanks, regards UK

[Herc]

 

Awesome post, and I think it reinforces my dim view of what the Giants do (and don't do).

I'm not sure what we do but we need to be doing what they do

[Herc]

I love when T agrees with me. My dad says the same thing about him

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Joe .......that was one of the best posts in a long time .........excellent stuff ! thanks, regards UK

 

 

I'm not sure what we do but we need to be doing what they do

Ayup...include some yoga stretches while we are at it... anything than what we have been doing... Don't just stand there do something... lol.

[Treehugger]

Wasn't Beckham kicked in the hamstring?

[JMFP]

Joe .......that was one of the best posts in a long time .........excellent stuff ! thanks, regards UK

 

Thanks UK. Hopefully next week will have a better result. Can't play much worse.

[BlueInCanada]

Wasn't Beckham kicked in the hamstring?

 

Yeah when he finally got back to practicing a couple weeks before the start of the season, I guess he took a pretty nasty shot to the hamstring during a play.

 

I'll try to find the article I read about it.

[NightFire]

This Big Time... Nicks knows how to catch the ball and you know what fuck the Giants if I am Nicks...you rush me back two years in a row... I get injured again both times and I am dogging it? Maybe its Giants Luck in this modern era...get a dominating WR... have him enormously help you win a Superbowl...fuck him up in meaningless games (or he fucks himself up and you treat him like he beat his wife, shot and killed her) and/or rush him back before being fully healed and have Lazer Tag Arm Eli throw up hospital balls for said WR to get crippled again. Nicks is sitting playing happy right now. All power to him...

 

He landed in the best possible situation. He should send the Giants a thank you note. It's like getting fired, feeling like the world is ending, and then finding your dream job. Donnell was the leading receiver. Maybe the Giants will have another year with no WR having a TD (the great Toomer - Hilliard year again).

[Treehugger]

 

Yeah when he finally got back to practicing a couple weeks before the start of the season, I guess he took a pretty nasty shot to the hamstring during a play.

 

I'll try to find the article I read about it.

 

Fucking Reese!

[CrazedDogs]

This Big Time... Nicks knows how to catch the ball and you know what fuck the Giants if I am Nicks...you rush me back two years in a row... I get injured again both times and I am dogging it? Maybe its Giants Luck in this modern era...get a dominating WR... have him enormously help you win a Superbowl...fuck him up in meaningless games (or he fucks himself up and you treat him like he beat his wife, shot and killed her) and/or rush him back before being fully healed and have Lazer Tag Arm Eli throw up hospital balls for said WR to get crippled again. Nicks is sitting playing happy right now. All power to him...

 

That is a really good point. He was dogging it (or was more nicked up than I thought), but this at least gives a reasonable explanation why he was taking it easy and protecting himself out there. Can't say I blame him either.

[BlueInCanada]

 

That is a really good point. He was dogging it (or was more nicked up than I thought), but this at least gives a reasonable explanation why he was taking it easy and protecting himself out there. Can't say I blame him either.

 

Not to mention let's look at the stats of Nicks vs Cruz, the year Nicks was "dogging it"

 

Nicks finished with 896 yard, 56 receptions, his longest being 57 yards. He has 38 first downs, 14 plays of 20+ yards and 4 plays of 40+ yards and he missed a game.

 

Cruz finished with 998 yards, 73 receptions, his longest being 70 yards. He finished with 45 first downs, 10 plays of 20+ yards and 3 plays of 40+ yards as well as four TDs.

 

If people honestly though that Nicks was "dogging" I question them to tell me what the fuck our top 10 paid WR Cruz was doing that year.

[CrazedDogs]

 

Not to mention let's look at the stats of Nicks vs Cruz, the year Nicks was "dogging it"

 

Nicks finished with 896 yard, 56 receptions, his longest being 57 yards. He has 38 first downs, 14 plays of 20+ yards and 4 plays of 40+ yards and he missed a game.

 

Cruz finished with 998 yards, 73 receptions, his longest being 70 yards. He finished with 45 first downs, 10 plays of 20+ yards and 3 plays of 40+ yards as well as four TDs.

 

If people honestly though that Nicks was "dogging" I question them to tell me what the fuck our top 10 paid WR Cruz was doing that year.

 

I still don't really understand why Cruz was the guy, not Nicks.

 

But after that, I saw things happen that I hadn't seen from a Giants receiver since the days of Plaxico Burress. I didn't understand it and couldn't explain it because it was Nicks' contract season, but his suddenness of movement clearly wasn't there like it was previously... and Nicks was one of my favorite Giants ever too. I was a fan, I wanted him around, so I do not think my eyes were deceiving me. But Defiler made a good point... maybe there was some bitterness there, between Cruz's contract and the way Nicks' health had been treated like it was disposable. I don't know, at this point I just wish him the best.