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Landon Collins out for shoulder surgery 4-6 months


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#26 Herc

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:21 PM

Earl Thomas is finishing up a 4 year 40 mil contract, to put the salary range in perspective.

#27 GolfingGuy

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

 
I was thinking that as well, but between his elbow injury last year and now his shoulder, I wonder about his durability.


He broke his forearm and this injury is a shoulder injury.

Outside of the whopping the ONE game he missed last year, hes started every game hes played.

Its not like he is always hurt or has nagging injuries.

#28 CrazedDogs

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:37 PM

I had high hopes for Collins in this system, I thought maybe he could be a 'moneybacker', like a free roaming safety, linebacker hybrid.

But I don't think he has the instincts for that. Not since 2016.

Doesn't mean he isn't a good player - he is a very good player. He's just a good, 2nd tier player though.

#29 CrazedDogs

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:38 PM

Earl Thomas is finishing up a 4 year 40 mil contract, to put the salary range in perspective.


Right, he's nowhere close to Thomas.

#30 Vendetta

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:30 PM

He broke his forearm and this injury is a shoulder injury.

Outside of the whopping the ONE game he missed last year, hes started every game hes played.

Its not like he is always hurt or has nagging injuries.

 

Yeah, he's had two injuries now, which fortunately have happened toward the end of seasons. I'm not willing to put down $12mm per year on those fortunes though, to try him out at an inside LB position after the two injuries, particularly the shoulder.



#31 Vendetta

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:32 PM

I had high hopes for Collins in this system, I thought maybe he could be a 'moneybacker', like a free roaming safety, linebacker hybrid.

But I don't think he has the instincts for that. Not since 2016.

Doesn't mean he isn't a good player - he is a very good player. He's just a good, 2nd tier player though.

 

He's an upfield/box player in my assessment. He needs to always be on the attack. Can't cover. Even if he was moved to LB, his coverage would be suspect.



#32 BlueInCanada

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:51 PM

 

The defense and the entire team is udner new FO and new coaching staff... It takes time to put their pieces together.   Landin Collins is a bright spot on a unit where there aren't many.  

 

Because he makes some open field tackles in a game? or gets burnt in coverage 24/7?

 

I'm not saying he's trash, he's an above average safety who can only make tackles.

 

Move him to LB, and get two safeties who can cover.



#33 fringe

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:12 AM

I had high hopes for Collins in this system, I thought maybe he could be a 'moneybacker', like a free roaming safety, linebacker hybrid.

But I don't think he has the instincts for that. Not since 2016.

Doesn't mean he isn't a good player - he is a very good player. He's just a good, 2nd tier player though.

We have a system? Is it the "Leave Gaping Holes in the Secondary System?"



#34 CrazedDogs

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:51 AM

We have a system? Is it the "Leave Gaping Holes in the Secondary System?"


Lol, I think it kind of is... Bettcher brings 2 or he brings 7, and there's little in between.

I'm exaggerating, but this D is all over the place. I've never seen a d coordinator mix things up this much. I like that about it, but it asks a lot of the players to be on the same page. I don't know what the damn system is.

#35 CrazedDogs

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:54 AM

 
He's an upfield/box player in my assessment. He needs to always be on the attack. Can't cover. Even if he was moved to LB, his coverage would be suspect.


Agreed. Takes bad angles when he's away from the ball too, so working in space just can't be his thing.

And.... He's huge. How is he not a linebacker?

#36 Drizzle

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:37 AM

They force turnovers and they do what they can with what little pass rush they have. I have no issues with how the linebackers and secondary play. The front four stop the run but they cant rush the passer to save their lives.

We havent been beaten by one single wide receiver in a game all season like what Odell has done to other teams. In todays game its almost like thats all you can ask for from your secondary.

#37 Drizzle

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:40 AM

The poor first half the offense had really skewed the defenses rankings. They really cant stop the opposing offense when it actually matters, though. Its tough to say that theyve cost us any games though. The team is one 63 yard field goal and one poorly coached second half against the Eagles away from 6-6 and thats a shame because this season will go down as merely a building block season when it could have been a one year turnaround.

I would also argue they were in the New Orleans game and should have won the Panthers game. Really, how many teams can say they held Drew Brees to zero TD passes and still lost?

#38 fringe

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:47 AM

They force turnovers and they do what they can with what little pass rush they have. I have no issues with how the linebackers and secondary play. The front four stop the run but they cant rush the passer to save their lives.

We havent been beaten by one single wide receiver in a game all season like what Odell has done to other teams. In todays game its almost like thats all you can ask for from your secondary.

Death by 1000 cuts- youre still dead.Too many 3rd and long conversions given up. No goal line stands to speak of. No identity to the defense. The coaches are analytics junkies with little thought given to the talent thats on the field. Defense is a mess. You are what your rankings say you are.

#39 GolfingGuy

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:10 AM

 
Yeah, he's had two injuries now, which fortunately have happened toward the end of seasons. I'm not willing to put down $12mm per year on those fortunes though, to try him out at an inside LB position after the two injuries, particularly the shoulder.


Pretty freak injuries. He isnt Bob Sanders. Hes actually a pretty durable player.

You are talking out of your ass.

I think Collins is an excellent ball player, but hes a good piece to have but wont ever be that cornerstone defensive player we hoped for after 2016.

And thats okay. I would de facto switch him to outside linebacker and draft a safety. Mark Barron did it, Deone Buchannon did it.

#40 Drizzle

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:45 AM

Death by 1000 cuts- youre still dead.Too many 3rd and long conversions given up. No goal line stands to speak of. No identity to the defense. The coaches are analytics junkies with little thought given to the talent thats on the field. Defense is a mess. You are what your rankings say you are.


I just think theyre one pass rusher away from having something. Theyre getting younger and faster and they have LBs that can make game changing plays. Unfortunately, I dont think they can or should keep the secondary that they currently have. Jenkins gone. Collins, gone.

#41 Pdouble

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 04:52 AM

What we need to do is pair Collins with an at least slightly above average free safety.

#42 Drizzle

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:20 AM

I dont see Curtis Riley as that bad. Serviceable.

#43 Drizzle

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:22 AM

I also think hes playing out of position through lack of any real true free safeties on the team...wasnt he initially Eli Apples backup?

#44 BlueInCanada

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:31 AM

The problem with Bettchers system and like many other 3-4s that play single high safety is that the solo safety needs to basically have the speed and sense along the lines of Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins.

 

They need to be able to play from one sideline to another and anticipate the pass.

 

The issue is Collins cant play it and neither can Riley.

 

So Collins is forced play where his strength is, tacking in the box and in open field.

 

Once again it isnt bad, he's the "money backer" strong safety.

 

I just think any player in that position is more of a LB then a safety and shouldn't think of themselves as a "good safety"



#45 Tempest

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:38 AM

I dont see Curtis Riley as that bad. Serviceable.

 

Curtis Riley makes CC Brown look serviceable.  Can't tackle, cover or catch.  He can't play unless he is twenty yards away from the line at all times.



#46 fringe

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:48 PM

I just think theyre one pass rusher away from having something. Theyre getting younger and faster and they have LBs that can make game changing plays. Unfortunately, I dont think they can or should keep the secondary that they currently have. Jenkins gone. Collins, gone.

I disagree about Jenkins. He's an above average cover corner with a good nose for turnovers



#47 fringe

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:00 PM

The problem with Bettchers system and like many other 3-4s that play single high safety is that the solo safety needs to basically have the speed and sense along the lines of Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins.

 

They need to be able to play from one sideline to another and anticipate the pass.

 

The issue is Collins cant play it and neither can Riley.

 

So Collins is forced play where his strength is, tacking in the box and in open field.

 

Once again it isnt bad, he's the "money backer" strong safety.

 

I just think any player in that position is more of a LB then a safety and shouldn't think of themselves as a "good safety"

TIght Ends destroy us on a regular basis. 



#48 CrazedDogs

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:48 PM

Yeah, he doesn't seem to be in that moneybacker role to me. I think that is actually Ogletree, we see a lot more of him roaming the defensive formation than we do Collins.

#49 CrazedDogs

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:50 PM

I disagree about Jenkins. He's an above average cover corner with a good nose for turnovers


I think Jenkins is great when his head is in the game.

He feeds a lot off his teammates though. Team gets down, Jenkins is way down. Team gets up, and Jenkins plays out of his mind.

#50 boohyah

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Posted Today, 04:33 AM

Jenkins has been very good the last month. I say that and I wasn't a fan back then. If he was to keep playing this way it does change things. But the issue with him is that when the team is playing bad, his attitude tends to suck more.






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