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Concern that Eli is in decline - Giants won't restructure or extend his contract


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The Giants are concerned enough that Eli is in decline, that they have refused to extend or restructure his contract even though it would give them additional cap space. He is signed through 2015.

ESPN is reporting: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/35615/five-lingering-questions-eli-manning

 

 

I think it's almost impossible to determine whether Eli is in decline given the putrid performance of the offensive line last season.

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And the hit or miss/no middle ground offense Gilly ran that seemed to require offense players to all guess correctly and consistently on every play.

 

 

Agreed 100%.

 

I'll give credit to Gilbride where it is due. When everything worked perfectly, that offense could move the ball on anyone.

 

But the problem was all the breakdowns......a high risk/high reward offense without an offensive line is a recipe for disaster, especially when your top wide receiver (Nicks) has mentally and physically checked out, when your supposed top TE (Myers) can't block for shit, and when you're running the ball with a 6th string back.

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I think the idea the concern that Eli Manning is declining is ridiculous. I think he is the same player he has always been for better or worse. He can make still make the throws, he will still force plays but I do think he is pissed off more about the interceptions than he was earlier in his career. Giants restructuring and extending him is based more on the money. I think the Giants expect Eli Manning to sign a contract significantly lower in price. He will not be the starting QB at the end of this decade, lets stay away from a contract that could tie the team up cap wise.

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I think it's almost impossible to determine whether Eli is in decline given the putrid performance of the offensive line last season.

 

To be fair he throws a lot of interceptions regardless of how good or bad the line is.

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To be fair he throws a lot of interceptions regardless of how good or bad the line is.

 

True....I think part of that is hard-wired....he's alot like Favre in that he's going to trust in his receivers to make the play, and trust in his arm to get the pass where it needs to be.

 

Another part of it was Gilbride's system.....it was always a high-risk offense.

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I think the idea the concern that Eli Manning is declining is ridiculous. I think he is the same player he has always been for better or worse. He can make still make the throws, he will still force plays but I do think he is pissed off more about the interceptions than he was earlier in his career. Giants restructuring and extending him is based more on the money. I think the Giants expect Eli Manning to sign a contract significantly lower in price. He will not be the starting QB at the end of this decade, lets stay away from a contract that could tie the team up cap wise.

 

Could very well be a coach-QB change down the road....both likely retiring at some point in the upcoming years.

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I wish I could find the old article from a few months ago that explained things well. I'll try to sum it up the best I can here:

 

After Spags and our NASCAR package kept other QB's on their heels, other teams figured us out. Instead of trying to get 3 to 4 seconds of protection for the QB to throw, they started designing "quick plays" so that the QB could get rid of the ball in 2 to 2.5 seconds. When Tuck, Osi, JPP, Kiwi, etc., were successful getting to the QB, the average time for a sack was 2.8 seconds after the snap. So teams simply designed quick plays so that the QB could get rid of the ball in less than 2.8 seconds.

 

The result: suddenly everyone wondered why the Giants and their sack machine no longer seemed effective and cries for the return of Spags hit all the blogs. But it wasn't because our DE's were suddenly no good - but that plays were designed to rid the ball before they could be effective. Also, teams discovered that you could run the ball pretty well against teams that blitz nearly every play. Then the cry was "why can't our linebackers be better", etc.

 

Anyway...now the Giants on the offensive side of the ball are discovering what our opponents discovered when they played us 5 or 6 years ago: our QB doesn't function well when he is blitzed all the time. Eli used to have an average of 3.7 seconds before throwing the ball. Now, he has less than 2.4 seconds before someone has a hand on him.

 

The fix: a better front line that can block and a more effective run game!

 

If we can have a great running game (which coincidentally tends to have more to do with the o-line than the back himself), the blitzes will diminish and Eli will have a little more time. Also - hopefully McAdoo will design more quick short passes (not panic plays, but actual designed plays) and use the long ball (which takes at least 3 seconds in Eli's hands) when the situation warrants.

 

Anyway...sure wish I had that article to share. It was one of the most enlightening analyses I've ever read and I think it was spot on.

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And the hit or miss/no middle ground offense Gilly ran that seemed to require offense players to all guess correctly and consistently on every play.

This...if the safety scratches his azz...then the cornerback hawks up a phlegm ball...that means a curl back over the middle...however if the MLB digs in his nose its a seam pass to one of our hands of stone TE's...

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I wish I could find the old article from a few months ago that explained things well. I'll try to sum it up the best I can here:

 

After Spags and our NASCAR package kept other QB's on their heels, other teams figured us out. Instead of trying to get 3 to 4 seconds of protection for the QB to throw, they started designing "quick plays" so that the QB could get rid of the ball in 2 to 2.5 seconds. When Tuck, Osi, JPP, Kiwi, etc., were successful getting to the QB, the average time for a sack was 2.8 seconds after the snap. So teams simply designed quick plays so that the QB could get rid of the ball in less than 2.8 seconds.

 

The result: suddenly everyone wondered why the Giants and their sack machine no longer seemed effective and cries for the return of Spags hit all the blogs. But it wasn't because our DE's were suddenly no good - but that plays were designed to rid the ball before they could be effective. Also, teams discovered that you could run the ball pretty well against teams that blitz nearly every play. Then the cry was "why can't our linebackers be better", etc.

 

Anyway...now the Giants on the offensive side of the ball are discovering what our opponents discovered when they played us 5 or 6 years ago: our QB doesn't function well when he is blitzed all the time. Eli used to have an average of 3.7 seconds before throwing the ball. Now, he has less than 2.4 seconds before someone has a hand on him.

 

The fix: a better front line that can block and a more effective run game!

 

If we can have a great running game (which coincidentally tends to have more to do with the o-line than the back himself), the blitzes will diminish and Eli will have a little more time. Also - hopefully McAdoo will design more quick short passes (not panic plays, but actual designed plays) and use the long ball (which takes at least 3 seconds in Eli's hands) when the situation warrants.

 

Anyway...sure wish I had that article to share. It was one of the most enlightening analyses I've ever read and I think it was spot on.

That makes all the sense in the world. What's min-boggling is that TC & Reese knew this but let our OLine deteriorate.

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And the hit or miss/no middle ground offense Gilly ran that seemed to require offense players to all guess correctly and consistently on every play.

Exactly. He runs the dumbest WR on the team on option routes.It took them about four years to realize all Manningham could do was run a fly route.

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From Profootballtalk.com

 

Gilbride calls notion Eli is in decline “ludicrous”

 

Posted by Mike Florio on April 14, 2014, 8:19 PM EDT

 

It would be easy and convenient for former Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride to adopt the notion that quarterback Eli Manning is in decline. After all, that would make the team’s poor offensive performance in 2013 seem more like Manning’s responsibility and less like Gilbride’s.

 

But that’s not what Gilbride said when given the chance to address the question of whether Eli’s play is slipping. Appearing in studio as a guest analyst on NBCSN’s Pro Football Talk, Gilbride dismissed the idea that Eli has lost his edge.

 

“There’s been no deterioration of his arm strength, there’s been no lack of preparation and effort,” Gilbride said. “I think he’s going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line. They certainly made a move to do that by bringing in three interior offensive linemen and as soon as they get somebody that’s going to be productive for them as an outside receiver —Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run [and] go win for them.”

 

So is Eli in decline?

 

“I think that’s, to be honest with you, ludicrous,” Gilbride said. “I think he’s going to be fine. . . . He’s going to throw the ball to the right person and he’s going to throw it accurately.”

 

Over the weekend, Dan Graziano of ESPN.com reported that the question of whether Eli is in decline “has not gone unasked” in the team’s front office. And it’s a fair question to at least ponder, given that Eli sits two seasons away from a new contract, with salaries of $15.1 million in 2014 and $17 million in 2015.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

The eternal optimist that I am about the Giants, I feel the same way about Eli. However, I'm glad the front office is preparing for the worse just in case. Not all of those interceptions last year were on Eli, but a whole lot of them were. Even under pressure, he has played much better than he showed last year. Some of those pick-6 interceptions were awful....just plain awful...and made no sense.

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I read Gilbrides comments...I will say this. He could have thrown Eli under the bus and saved his own reputation a bit, with only fans really reading through the lines. So I can give him some credit there for essentially taking some responsibility for last year's offensive struggles, without specifically saying so.

 

As for Eli, I will say that if he has another poor year...the Giants are going to be drafting high and should be taking a QB at that point. Has Eli's play slipped, yes, but it can be chalked up to other factors (offensive line, running game, WRs on wrong page, etc). But you start stringing poor years together and sooner or later, the common factor becomes the glaring issue.

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Honestly, we've had the same guy under center for a decade and we're still not sure who he is. For all the shit we give the Dog when he's here, "consistently inconsistent" is a pretty fucking good title for Eli. For as many amazing plays Eli has given us, there are just as many question marks (like how can you play QB for ten years and still not be able to throw a fucking swing pass to the flat).

 

Now that Gilbride is gone, there can be no more excuses. It's put up or shut up time for Eli, and honestly I can't blame management for getting plan B ready if that's what they decide to do. The guy hasn't played well in two years.

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Honestly, we've had the same guy under center for a decade and we're still not sure who he is. For all the shit we give the Dog when he's here, "consistently inconsistent" is a pretty fucking good title for Eli. For as many amazing plays Eli has given us, there are just as many question marks (like how can you play QB for ten years and still not be able to throw a fucking swing pass to the flat).

 

Now that Gilbride is gone, there can be no more excuses. It's put up or shut up time for Eli, and honestly I can't blame management for getting plan B ready if that's what they decide to do. The guy hasn't played well in two years.

Pretty much how I feel too, Eli needs a little fire under his ass to let him know they need better production. The O-Line needs to be do better too though.

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Pretty much how I feel too, Eli needs a little fire under his ass to let him know they need better production. The O-Line needs to be do better too though.

Did Gilly ever once pull Eli? I don't think so. But that lights a fire under a QB's ass. Being the big guy on the team watching his backup run the game because your coach pulled you has an amazing effect.

 

I love Eli - truly do. But something is up with him lately. TC really has to get the backup some quality time and have him prepared to takeover if necessary. One of the things I hate is the stat, "most consecutive games...blah, blah, blah". That doesn't mean anything if the team is losing for the sake of trying to keep a record going. I remember when "Iron Man" Cal Ripkin hadn't missed a game in what - 16 years or something. Didn't matter if he was sick and puking in the dugout, or if he was hurt so bad he couldn't swing a bat, or if he was in a killer slump - his record was more important than the team. And that's not right. There is no dishonor in sitting a game out when you aren't a 100%....in fact, it's more of a dishonor to stay in a game when you can't perform at a high level. Screw the records - that's only important for drunks playing trivia at the local tavern on Wednesday nights.

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Did Gilly ever once pull Eli? I don't think so. But that lights a fire under a QB's ass. Being the big guy on the team watching his backup run the game because your coach pulled you has an amazing effect.

 

I love Eli - truly do. But something is up with him lately. TC really has to get the backup some quality time and have him prepared to takeover if necessary. One of the things I hate is the stat, "most consecutive games...blah, blah, blah". That doesn't mean anything if the team is losing for the sake of trying to keep a record going. I remember when "Iron Man" Cal Ripkin hadn't missed a game in what - 16 years or something. Didn't matter if he was sick and puking in the dugout, or if he was hurt so bad he couldn't swing a bat, or if he was in a killer slump - his record was more important than the team. And that's not right. There is no dishonor in sitting a game out when you aren't a 100%....in fact, it's more of a dishonor to stay in a game when you can't perform at a high level. Screw the records - that's only important for drunks playing trivia at the local tavern on Wednesday nights.

It won't be much longer before change will come, Eli can't play too many more years and TC will be gone too. I think mostly it's because we've never had a backup QB that could challenge Eli in the first place. This is just what happens when you have a team that has won a couple Championships, players get old and FA takes the rest. I'm not going to bitch about what TC and Eli have done, it just takes time and it's still better than being a fan of any other team in this division who hasn't done shit in a long time.

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The guy hasn't had a decent line in at least 3 years. The difference between 2011 and the last two was where the pressure was coming from, not the amount. In 2011 , it was coming from the ends (I really admire MacKenzie, but he was awful his last year), so he could step up: the last two the pressure was coming from the middle.

 

If you're going to have a pocket-passer, then you'd better make sure he has a pocket. Otherwise, you get seasons like the last two.

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The guy hasn't had a decent line in at least 3 years. The difference between 2011 and the last two was where the pressure was coming from, not the amount. In 2011 , it was coming from the ends (I really admire MacKenzie, but he was awful his last year), so he could step up: the last two the pressure was coming from the middle.

 

If you're going to have a pocket-passer, then you'd better make sure he has a pocket. Otherwise, you get seasons like the last two.

You're 100% right, but many times I've seen Eli hold on to the ball way too long when he should have dumped it. To me, That's rookie stuff there and he should be able to not take those kind of sacks.

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You're 100% right, but many times I've seen Eli hold on to the ball way too long when he should have dumped it. To me, That's rookie stuff there and he should be able to not take those kind of sacks.

I don't know--honestly, who was he going to dump it off to? Myers? The backs were held in to stop the slaughter.

 

He already had a bunch of grounding calls called on him last season.

 

I don't think Eli really had a workable scenario in last year's clusterfuck. I'm not surprised at all he had happy feet near the end.

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