CrazedDogs Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think he bails out on the pocket too fast and rolls right. Easily defensed I hadn't noticed that.... yeah, that would be a problem. but the arm talent is all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 i'm with you too Guy and Nas ......i'd prefer to trade down for multiple picks It looks like the majority of Giants nation agree with us: By Dan Duggan dduggan@njadvancemedia.com, NJ Advance Media for NJ.com Don't take a quarterback. That was the message sent by Giants fans in response to a poll question asking what the team should do with the No. 2 pick. Penn State running back Saquon Barkley was the clear-cut top choice, garnering 46 percent of the 2,700 votes. The next most popular option was trading back to acquire more assets (31 percent). UCLA's Josh Rosen was the top quarterback option (12 percent), followed by USC's Sam Darnold (7 percent). There were few votes for any of the other quarterback prospects (2 percent) or a non-QB other than Barkley (2 percent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Barkley needs to be the pick but Im not sure he makes it past the Browns. They are dead set on starting Manning this year, may as well actually go for it. Barkley helps all facets of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I think he bails out on the pocket too fast and rolls right. Easily defensed Agreed. I've seen Luck comps and don't get that honestly I see Cutler when watching Darnold and he doesn't even have Cutler's arm which was the intriguing part of Cutler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Rosen is pretty accurate at the short and intermediate level. He isn't all that accurate beyond the 15-20 yard area, Darnold is more accurate in that regard. Darnold is a play-maker that makes something happen from nothing. I rarely see Rosen make something happen when the play design doesn't work or protection breaks down. He doesn't throw on the run very well and he's missed a lot of games to injury. The wind up delivery thing on Darnold is way overblown, as is the footwork. Guy steps in the bucket, usually when he's getting pressure, but he still makes the play. I mean, I can criticize the guy's footwork but if he throws an accurate ball with power (and he has a stronger arm than Rosen), then all that tells me is he's accurate from a variety of platforms. Rosen I am much less confident in in that regard. Have you watched the turnovers? I have...they are not that bad. Guy was playing with an atrocious OL and was facing pressure all the time, taking hits, and yes, he needs to focus on ball security in the pocket...coachable. He doesn't throw on the run very well? Watch him on PA Boots, he's fantastic(IMO Shurmur runs a lot of PA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Barkley needs to be the pick but Im not sure he makes it past the Browns. They are dead set on starting Manning this year, may as well actually go for it. Barkley helps all facets of the offense.you think the browns are wise enough to do that? Man I hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 You know I was thinking this today. Eli Apple is on the trade block, DRC has rumors of the Gints releasing him for cap reasons and his injured, but still the best CB on the team. Jenkins has shown why he was let go in St.Louis. What if they go with the CB who is being touted as a once in a lifetime pick? Fitzpatrick. Can play any DB spot on the field and has that high versatility. tell me more about this db...I don't know anything about college football..but I respect your knowledge..so is this kid as good as you say? What makes him so great? I just don't want the Giants to draft a QB. I have a feeling that if Webb stayed for grad school, he would be touted as the top QB in this draft class. Also, I think her said it, many if the defensive players, specifically the db's , that have gone early have been really good players. I'm not opposed to taking a defensive player if they can't get Barkley. Where is that db you speak of supposed to go? Can we trade our pick and still get him if Barkley is taken by the browns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 tell me more about this db...I don't know anything about college football..but I respect your knowledge..so is this kid as good as you say? What makes him so great? I just don't want the Giants to draft a QB. I have a feeling that if Webb stayed for grad school, he would be touted as the top QB in this draft class. Also, I think her said it, many if the defensive players, specifically the db's , that have gone early have been really good players. I'm not opposed to taking a defensive player if they can't get Barkley. Where is that db you speak of supposed to go? Can we trade our pick and still get him if Barkley is taken by the browns? 99.9% of draft pundits have him going to the Browns at pick #4 and there is no way he isnt getting picked by the Browns at pick #4. The Colts are either doing Chubb, QB, or Barkley if the Giants don't take him. There is zero chance Fitz makes it past pick 4 though with the Browns, they need CB help since Harden, Hardlen, whatever his name is was let go and Fitz is the best CB to come out of the draft in awhile. Basically Fitzpatrick played in an Alabama system that doesn't play straight out of high school kids....expect for Fitz, he started every single game his freshman year and excelled every single game after that. He has the size, speed and versatility to literally play any single DB position on the field and with a guy like Bettcher, like BB25 said, who needs a center piece money backer spot, Fitz would start day one and have an immediate impact in run and pass support. He's the next Tyrann Mathieu with a higher ceiling and better instincts. He plays with an intensity that is needed on this defense and will set the tone for the rest of the team to go off of, plus the kid if a maniac when he is sent on a blitz. The biggest weakness, is that he isnt 6ft4, 225+pounds of muscle and he sometimes uses his speed to much and runs himself out of a play when trying to go balls out to make a hit, stuff that can be coached. He's a top 5 player for a reason, and if there wasnt such a need for QBs he would probably be considered THE BEST player in the draft, which he is. Honestly is the Giants "shock the world" by taking him instead of a QB or Barkley, I'd love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 He doesn't throw on the run very well? Watch him on PA Boots, he's fantastic(IMO Shurmur runs a lot of PA) 5 yard bootleg passes to the TE? You or I can make that throw. He's not great on off-platform throws. I've seen enough of his games to know that he is a bad QB outside of the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 99.9% of draft pundits have him going to the Browns at pick #4 and there is no way he isnt getting picked by the Browns at pick #4. The Colts are either doing Chubb, QB, or Barkley if the Giants don't take him. There is zero chance Fitz makes it past pick 4 though with the Browns, they need CB help since Harden, Hardlen, whatever his name is was let go and Fitz is the best CB to come out of the draft in awhile. Basically Fitzpatrick played in an Alabama system that doesn't play straight out of high school kids....expect for Fitz, he started every single game his freshman year and excelled every single game after that. He has the size, speed and versatility to literally play any single DB position on the field and with a guy like Bettcher, like BB25 said, who needs a center piece money backer spot, Fitz would start day one and have an immediate impact in run and pass support. He's the next Tyrann Mathieu with a higher ceiling and better instincts. He plays with an intensity that is needed on this defense and will set the tone for the rest of the team to go off of, plus the kid if a maniac when he is sent on a blitz. The biggest weakness, is that he isnt 6ft4, 225+pounds of muscle and he sometimes uses his speed to much and runs himself out of a play when trying to go balls out to make a hit, stuff that can be coached. He's a top 5 player for a reason, and if there wasnt such a need for QBs he would probably be considered THE BEST player in the draft, which he is. Honestly is the Giants "shock the world" by taking him instead of a QB or Barkley, I'd love it. As usual you and I see it completely different. Not only do I think that there is a chance for Fitzpatrick to go after pick #4, I think that it is highly likely. Reasoning is that I believe the first three picks will be Barkley and two QBs. One will be Darnold and the other will NOT be Rosen, it will be Allen or Mayfield. After Barkley and the two QBs, the Browns will either go with Chubb if they took a QB at #1 and Barkley is off the board, or they will trade down to a team looking at a QB. Fitzpatrick has a zero percent chance of going in the top 3 picks with Barkley, Chubb, and the QB talent on the board, and only a small chance at going at 4. Only way that happens is if Browns go QB at 1, Barkley goes to Giants at 2, and Colts take Chubb at 3. Then I could see Fitzpatrick going at 4. No chance if 2 QBs taken in top 4, and I think there will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Wasn't the honey badger kid on the Cardinals like a 4th round pick? If he comps to him, why would he be so highly touted...or did everyone just completely drop the ball with Mathieu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 He fell cuz he failed a drug test and got arrested with weed after he got kicked out of school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 He fell cuz he failed a drug test and got arrested with weed after he got kicked out of schooloh man...it's so funny that one of the most corrupt organizations in this country..the NCAA...can act so high and mighty against the same kids they exploit. And then NFL teams have the nerve to judge..half their players are criminals. How many football players are in prison or have served prison time? Who cares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 As usual you and I see it completely different. Not only do I think that there is a chance for Fitzpatrick to go after pick #4, I think that it is highly likely. Reasoning is that I believe the first three picks will be Barkley and two QBs. One will be Darnold and the other will NOT be Rosen, it will be Allen or Mayfield. After Barkley and the two QBs, the Browns will either go with Chubb if they took a QB at #1 and Barkley is off the board, or they will trade down to a team looking at a QB. Fitzpatrick has a zero percent chance of going in the top 3 picks with Barkley, Chubb, and the QB talent on the board, and only a small chance at going at 4. Only way that happens is if Browns go QB at 1, Barkley goes to Giants at 2, and Colts take Chubb at 3. Then I could see Fitzpatrick going at 4. No chance if 2 QBs taken in top 4, and I think there will be. I don't see the Colts going QB, they traded for what's his face Honey Smoked Brisket and they are still holding onto hope that Luck can pull through, they will roll into next year with either Chubb (most likely) or Barkley. I don't see the Browns taking a RB either after taking a QB with the first pick, they literally have zero play makers on defense and their secondary is the worst in the NFL. It's all moot at this point because we still havent hit FA period or the combine, plus there's always a kid or two every year who gets hit with some drug charge or something that teams worry about that plummets their stock. I just don't think the Browns could pass on a kid like Fitz at pick #4, he's the best player in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Wasn't the honey badger kid on the Cardinals like a 4th round pick? If he comps to him, why would he be so highly touted...or did everyone just completely drop the ball with Mathieu Yeah Mathieu had a huge character flag. He was viewed by teams as a toxic personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I don't see the Colts going QB, they traded for what's his face Honey Smoked Brisket and they are still holding onto hope that Luck can pull through, they will roll into next year with either Chubb (most likely) or Barkley. I don't see the Browns taking a RB either after taking a QB with the first pick, they literally have zero play makers on defense and their secondary is the worst in the NFL. It's all moot at this point because we still havent hit FA period or the combine, plus there's always a kid or two every year who gets hit with some drug charge or something that teams worry about that plummets their stock. I just don't think the Browns could pass on a kid like Fitz at pick #4, he's the best player in the draft. Barkley is the best player in the draft, and that's why the Browns will take him in the unlikely event he's there at 4 and if they didn't already take him at #1 overall. Myles Garrett, Danny Shelton, Emmanuel Ogbah, Jamie Collins, Jason McCourty and Jabrill Peppers. They have a lot of good young talent on that defense. They need secondary help but they are not the worst. They also have THREE 2nd round picks, two of which are at the very top of round 2. They have enough ammo to draft a lot of secondary help or even move back into the first round and get another blue-chip talent for the secondary such as Joshua Jackson, Denzel Ward, or perhaps Carlton Davis. The one thing I agree with you on is that the Colts won't take a QB. I think the Colts will either take Barkley (if he's there, probably a run to the podium pick), or Bradley Chubb (the likes of which they desperately need). However, the Browns are going to take a QB, and the Giants are likely to take a QB as well. Another way they could go is take a QB at 4, trade down to the Jets who may want to hop Denver, or even down to 15 to the Cardinals who may want to hop them both, and then the Browns can get even more picks, and have even more ammo to jump back into the first and end up with 3 first rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I hadn't noticed that.... yeah, that would be a problem. but the arm talent is all there. Watch this game: Cotton Bowl against Ohio State. I've never seen a QB under more duress than Darnold was in that game, or an OL so thoroughly dominated by an opposing defensive front four. Darnold played heroically. A few times he bailed and rolled right...maybe one time was premature. But he steps up and hangs in the "pocket" (very generous to call what he had in that game a pocket, but I digress) many times. The guy dropped some serious dimes deep with heavy pressure in his face. Yes, he had a bad pick-six in there. But he rolled both directions, there were several design rolls to the right as well, and he hung in like a bullfighter a lot of the game. And he competed, HARD even down 17 points for much of the game and late. If you didn't know the scoring rules of football, by watching Darnold in that game you wouldn't know that it was impossible to score a 17-point TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 I think rolling right being a bad thing is overblown anyway. If you have the wheels to create some space for yourself and have decent accuracy on the run I think it can be a major advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 You take away at least half the field- when you start rolling, more as you go. Unless you want to Brett Favre a pass back to the middle. Nothing bad can happen then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 True but if your o-line cant protect you see none of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 yard bootleg passes to the TE? You or I can make that throw. He's not great on off-platform throws. I've seen enough of his games to know that he is a bad QB outside of the pocket. What games did you watch? He has a much better arm than Darnold https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-deep-ball-accuracy-josh-rosen-best-bunch/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 If you're left handed like I am, rolling right, is not a good idea..ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxRik Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 They're gonna take the next Neil Rackers with the #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 They are saying Rosen acts just like Jay Cuttler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Thats the exact guy who always comes to mind when I think of Rosen. All the ability in the world and questions about his desire to play. I think most of the guys under consideration would be great selections but hard pass on this guy with a pick as valuable as this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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