And With the 9th Pick in the 2015 NFL Draft, The NY Giants...

[BleedinBlue]

I'm obsessed every year with the draft. I can't help it. I spend two months trying to figure out what the Giants are going to do. To be fair, I'm usually wrong.

 

The "experts", which are usually just as wrong as me, overwhelmingly see the Giants going with Scherff as they all believe the Giants' O-Line is a disaster. I don't buy that our biggest area of need is on the O-line. If Schwartz is healthy and can stay healthy, and Jones is as advertised, we are not that bad off.

 

The biggest problem the Giants had last year was injuries - plain and simple. Not only a ridiculous amount of injuries, but big injuries to critical players like Cruz, Schwartz, etc.

 

The second biggest problem the Giants had last year was their inability to stop the run. All the pass rushing in the world doesn't do much good if a scat back is headed up the field as our men are trying to get to the QB.

 

Regardless...I am warming up to the idea that the Giants will pick none other than Danny Shelton who is better at this stage in his game than Barry Cofield was back in the day. And he's liable to be even better than Cofield in the future.

 

Here's why I think this is where the Giants will go:

 

1) Shelton is a consensus top 5 player that will probably still be on the board at 9 because of the needs of teams ahead of them in the draft. Without a doubt, he will be the BPA apart from Randy Gregory who pissed his future away for a quick buzz.

 

2) He is exceptionally strong and a massive man who requires two O-linemen to contain him. One lineman is never going to move him out of the way to make a hole for a running back. He stuffs RBs in their tracks.

 

3) Lined up beside Hankins, the Giants would have one of the nastiest inside d-lines in the country.

 

4) With a brick wall on the d-line, linebackers and safeties would not be required to crowd the line to concentrate on a running back slipping through the line and could be better used to blitz or shutdown the short passing game.

 

5) DEs have more flexibility when the players between them create a brick wall.

 

6) We have a new defensive coordinator and the front office has usually given a new coach (o-coordinator or d-coordinator) a gift with the first round pick.

 

Of course, the Giants might go in a completely different direction. But Shelton is a super safe pick - it's not a flashy or sexy pick, but is definitely one of the few "guarantees" in the draft. We rolled the dice last year with a "skill player" (which are the riskiest kind of picks), and got the sexiest, flashiest player in the draft - winning the lottery with OBJ. We knew that McAdoo was going to implement a whole new offensive system so taking a skill player was worth the risk.

 

I think we are going to build the trenches in the early rounds of the draft. Big, safe-pick players who will be there for the next half decade and longer.

 

It's possible, but highly unlikely IMO, that the Giants could take Malcom Brown in Shelton's place, but I don't see them doing that. Brown will probably be a future pro-bowler like Shelton, but Brown will not be the BPA on the board when it's the Giants turn to pick.

 

-----------------------------

I think they'll go with an offensive lineman in the 2nd, unless some stud falls through the cracks like a Trae Waynes or a Landon Collins. They should get a very good player in the 2nd if they stick with BPA. I would be shocked if they went with Gregory, but one never knows. I imagine he will probably be there for them if they want to deal with his character issues.

 

After the first 2 rounds, I have no idea whatsoever what the Giants are up to. I think they like Benardrick McKinney, but not sure if he'll be around by the third round. They'd probably have to burn their 2nd to get him. I think they like safeties Jaquiski Tartt and Durell Eskridge. I also think they like OG Ali Marpet and slot WR Justin Hardy. Who knows??

 

It's really hard to try and figure out Reese and TC in the later rounds. Personally, I hope they take TE Jesse James and groom him to be our Jason Witten/Gronk type TE of the future.

[CrazedDogs]

I really wish I had time to watch more college football, I love to get into these discussions but, at least with respect to individual players, I just don't know enough to have an opinion worth a damn.

 

From what I've read about who the players compare to, I do not like any of the projected first round wide receivers except for Cooper, and I think 9th overall would be too high for him. I'll be very disappointed if the Giants go WR at #9, especially if they go for one of the workout warriors who under-produced in college. (I had similar concerns when OBJ was drafted, so that shows what I know...)

 

Looks like a good draft for defensive line talent, and I'm seeing lots of mocks in which weaker 'skill' position talent is pushing top defensive prospects a few spots down... that can only be a good thing for us. Not only can you never have too many pass rushers, but you can never have too much talent on the defensive line, period.

 

But if only it was the offensive line draft that was deep.... I disagree that the offensive line is okay and it was just banged up last year. Hope I'm wrong about that, but I was very concerned by what I saw last season from even the healthy players (except for Beatty, who had a pretty good season). If by some miracle the Canadian import is at least an average NFL starter, maybe a high draft pick on the OL would be unnecessary, but I don't want to take that gamble. My philosophy is that the most important position on the offense is the offensive line, and I just don't see a group here that is good enough. They were only marginally acceptable in 2011, it took heroic QB play to win that Lombardi, and have been in steady decline since.

[gmenroc]

Good read. I wouldn't be upset at all with a DT pick in the first. I've mocked the first 3 rounds of the draft with reliance on CBS Sports prospect rankings. That took long enough...not about to add more than one set of rankings to aid my mock draft. But yeah, I gave us Danny Shelton too. I think that for years, we've neglected the offensive and defensive lines. I'm glad to see the Richburg and Pugh picks in the past few years and anticipate more depth coming from this draft. At this point though, I don't see any of the tackles being worth the #9 overall pick. In a sense, their position dictates a top 10 pick, not their play. So I'd look more to the defensive line.

 

Now, if through some chance Beasley or Fowler or Williams falls to us, I'd take them over Shelton.

 

If we took Trae Waynes, I wouldn't hate it at 9 given Prince being a FA next year, but I wouldn't be stoked about it that high.

 

If we end up with Rey or Gregory, I'll be pissed.

 

As for the second and third, I'm looking at OG and WR. Order doesn't really matter to me. Sammie Coates is an interesting name that'll come off the board in that area. I see him ranked anywere from high 2nd round to high 3rd round. If the Giants could swing OG Laken Tomlinson in the 2nd and Coates in the 3rd, I'd be ecstatic. OR if they take Coates in the 2nd with Marpet in the 3rd, I'd be happy too.

 

Essentially, the first 3 rounds need to have a WR, Dline, Oline players - while maximizing the value of the picks.

 

CB, S, LB, TE could easily be what rounds out the draft for us.

[BleedinBlue]

In a sense, their position dictates a top 10 pick, not their play. So I'd look more to the defensive line.

I like La'el Collins, Scherff, and Flowers.....but I don't think they are top 10 picks. If we were drafting 15-22, then I be happier than a 2-petered puppy with any of them....but we're in the gold zone this year and shouldn't settle for silver.

 

If Dante Fowler was still on the board, I agree with you that he'd be a no brainer pick. I just can't imagine him falling to 9. I also share your take on Ray. Too small framed - tall enough, but not enough room on his frame to bulk up and play with his hand in the dirt. He is the wrong player to be an effective DE in a 4-3 setup, and is best suited for 3-4. And I don't want another "tweener experiment".

 

I like Beasley a lot, but he'll more than likely be gone. I'd be happy as can be to have him on the team. Williams won't be there - not unless some news breaks in the next few weeks that there is some issue with him that no one knew about.

 

Shelton makes perfect sense. BPA, talent-wise, long term solution, durability, etc. Not flashy, but perfect for building an awesome trench on the defensive side.

[CrazedDogs]

ah, now if Leonard Williams comes down with a case of the munchies.... is he worth 9th overall? I'd have to guess yes....

[gmenroc]

I like La'el Collins, Scherff, and Flowers.....but I don't think they are top 10 picks. If we were drafting 15-22, then I be happier than a 2-petered puppy with any of them....but we're in the gold zone this year and shouldn't settle for silver.

 

If Dante Fowler was still on the board, I agree with you that he'd be a no brainer pick. I just can't imagine him falling to 9. I also share your take on Ray. Too small framed (tall enough, but not enough room to bulk up) to be an effective DE in a 4-3 setup, and is best suited for 3-4.

 

I like Beasley a lot, but he'll more than likely be gone. I'd be happy as can be to have him on the team. Williams won't be there - not unless some news breaks in the next few weeks that there is some issue with him that no one knew about.

 

Shelton makes perfect sense. BPA, talent-wise, long term solution, durability, etc. Not flashy, but perfect for building an awesome trench on the defensive side.

 

I agree that the liklihood of Fowler, Williams, and Beasley being there is slim to none. I've got the top 8 as follows:

 

Buccs - Mariota

Titans - Winston

Jags - Fowler

Raiders - White

Redskins- Scherff

Jets - Cooper

Bears - Williams

Falcons - Beasley

 

If Beasley drops outside the top 4, I would strongly consider moving up to the Redskins to get Beasley while the Redskins could likely still get Scherff at #9. Not sure what it'd take to move up those 4 spots, but Beasley, I think, would be worth a reasonable move up. We'd have to get above the Bears and Falcons to be sure to get him. And given the Bears need at WR after the Brandon Marshall trade, the Jets wouldn't want to drop below Chicago and risk losing out on Cooper (especially with White off the board). So I don't see the Jets as a trade partner for the Giants, which is why I mentioned the Redskins.

[Nas]

Good read. I wouldn't be upset at all with a DT pick in the first. I've mocked the first 3 rounds of the draft with reliance on CBS Sports prospect rankings. That took long enough...not about to add more than one set of rankings to aid my mock draft. But yeah, I gave us Danny Shelton too. I think that for years, we've neglected the offensive and defensive lines. I'm glad to see the Richburg and Pugh picks in the past few years and anticipate more depth coming from this draft. At this point though, I don't see any of the tackles being worth the #9 overall pick. In a sense, their position dictates a top 10 pick, not their play. So I'd look more to the defensive line.

 

Now, if through some chance Beasley or Fowler or Williams falls to us, I'd take them over Shelton.

 

If we took Trae Waynes, I wouldn't hate it at 9 given Prince being a FA next year, but I wouldn't be stoked about it that high.

 

If we end up with Rey or Gregory, I'll be pissed.

 

As for the second and third, I'm looking at OG and WR. Order doesn't really matter to me. Sammie Coates is an interesting name that'll come off the board in that area. I see him ranked anywere from high 2nd round to high 3rd round. If the Giants could swing OG Laken Tomlinson in the 2nd and Coates in the 3rd, I'd be ecstatic. OR if they take Coates in the 2nd with Marpet in the 3rd, I'd be happy too.

 

Essentially, the first 3 rounds need to have a WR, Dline, Oline players - while maximizing the value of the picks.

 

CB, S, LB, TE could easily be what rounds out the draft for us.

 

I don't thin we should worry about the CB position this year.. namely Prince. for one he can and probably will be resigned... and we have much more immediate needs... I'm still convinced the Giants will pick a defensive lineman in the 1st or trade down.

[BleedinBlue]

ah, now if Leonard Williams comes down with a case of the munchies.... is he worth 9th overall? I'd have to guess yes....

I take it you mean "failed drug test".

 

As for me, he'd be in the same boat as Gregory if that was the case. The draft is a crap shoot as history reflects. Burning an early gold zone pick on a guy with character issues is just dumb - both for the player and the team that drafts him.

 

Short answer: no

[Mr. P]

ah, now if Leonard Williams comes down with a case of the munchies.... is he worth 9th overall? I'd have to guess yes....

Yes.

[BleedinBlue]

I agree that the liklihood of Fowler, Williams, and Beasley being there is slim to none. I've got the top 8 as follows:

 

Buccs - Mariota

Titans - Winston

Jags - Fowler

Raiders - White

Redskins- Scherff

Jets - Cooper

Bears - Williams

Falcons - Beasley

 

If Beasley drops outside the top 4, I would strongly consider moving up to the Redskins to get Beasley while the Redskins could likely still get Scherff at #9. Not sure what it'd take to move up those 4 spots, but Beasley, I think, would be worth a reasonable move up. We'd have to get above the Bears and Falcons to be sure to get him. And given the Bears need at WR after the Brandon Marshall trade, the Jets wouldn't want to drop below Chicago and risk losing out on Cooper (especially with White off the board). So I don't see the Jets as a trade partner for the Giants, which is why I mentioned the Redskins.

I think you are pretty much spot on. The only kicker is that I think some team is going to bend over to move up for one of the QB's - Eagles???

 

If ever there was a year where teams will be trading a weekend romp with the wifey and their first born to move up, it's this year. This is not a wickedly deep draft (maybe it is for WRs and RBs, but that's it) and there is just a spattering of players in the "gold zone". Some teams are desperate. It wouldn't surprise me if some team traded ahead of the Giants to snag Fowler, Shelton or Beasley. Giants are in a nice position. But things will change on Thursday night - 4/30/2015.

[CrazedDogs]

I take it you mean "failed drug test".

 

As for me, he'd be in the same boat as Gregory if that was the case. The draft is a crap shoot as history reflects. Burning an early gold zone pick on a guy with character issues is just dumb - both for the player and the team that drafts him.

 

Short answer: no

 

yes, but just for marijuana. I wouldn't consider, for example, a crackhead, regardless of the round. A pothead though?... for a player of that talent, I wouldn't worry about it. Let the man have his grass, he isn't hurting anybody else.

[gmenroc]

I think you are pretty much spot on. The only kicker is that I think some team is going to bend over to move up for one of the QB's - Eagles???

 

If ever there was a year where teams will be trading a weekend romp with the wifey and their first born to move up, it's this year. This is not a wickedly deep draft (maybe it is for WRs and RBs, but that's it) and there is just a spattering of players in the "gold zone". Some teams are desperate. It wouldn't surprise me if some team traded ahead of the Giants to snag Fowler, Shelton or Beasley. Giants are in a nice position. But things will change on Thursday night - 4/30/2015.

 

I don't really know that the teams picking ahead of us will get those players, but I think that the general consensus says that those 8 players will be off the board when we pick.

 

Trading up a few spots seems as if it'd take our 3rd rounder plus another pick or two. I think that hurts us too much with the infusion of depth and youth that we need.

 

I am growing into the idea of trading down and still ensuring a Landon Collins selection.

[Tempest]

The offensive line still needs help and a player like Scherff is what the team needs in the first round. Anything less than a blue chip offensive lineman and I see another season like the last two. I think Kendrick Ellis is going to be an impact player for the defensive line this year that Robert Ayers was for the team last season.

 

The quality of first rounders has diminished as more player continue to leave the college ranks early and require more coaching at the NFL level. 32 players are going to be drafted in the first round and less than half will have an impact in their rookie season.

[Allstarjim]

The more I analyze this draft, the more I think the pick will and should be La'el Collins. I just believe he's so clean, such a good resume.

 

The debate on him reminds me of last year with Aaron Donald. Some people even here said he wasn't a top talent because he's undersized, played for Pitt against weaker competition, and so on and so forth. I saw a dominant player who checked every box, to include work ethic, love of the game, character, motor... everything you want to see as far as intangibles packed into this body with all the good athletic measurables you want to see. Just a clean player as Jerry Reese would say.

 

And Aaron Donald proved he was a great pick for the Rams, after a phenomenal rookie season.

 

That's how I feel about Collins. He didn't come into this process with all the hype of say, Cooper or Fowler, for example. But when you look at the player, you see a guy who has all of the good physical size and athletic attributes, has excellent character, has the mean streak and motor you want, has the game tape against the top talent in the country, why WOULDN'T he be a top 10 pick? Because the mock draft experts mocked him as a mid-late first rounder in the beginning of draft season? Not a good enough reason.

 

I think his floor for his career is a well-above average right tackle in the NFL. And I may be in the minority in this position, but I think he will be a very good LT in the NFL. I think if we drafted him, and he either played at Guard or Right Tackle day one, he'd be a big upgrade.

 

I think Scherff has all of the ability I see in Collins, however, with Scherff I worry that he's a little more injury-prone, and I believe Collins has not only better tape, but is better against a higher level of competition in the SEC.

 

I would take both of these players before Shelton, who I think is too big of a risk at #9 overall. At the other site someone who claims to be in the know also says the Giants are high on Trae Waynes, FWIW. Could be smoke, who really knows?

[BleedinBlue]

That's a pretty good take (IMO for what it's worth). I have liked La'el Collins a lot and I believe the Giants do as well. They have spent a lot of time at LSU watching the guy. Also, the Giants have a weak spot for LSU players like they do for players from Syracuse and Boston College.

 

Personally, if the Giants could trade down a few spots and pick up an extra 2nd or something, they could still probably pick him up as far back as 15-17th. And I'm not sure that the Giants don't favor Flowers over Collins. Either way, if they stay put at 9, I think they have to go with a player that is a guaranteed future pro-bowler.

 

The Giants always say they will pick the "best player available" and it seems they always do so in round one. By the third round, they are drafting to plug holes that need to be plugged. If they go for an offensive tackle in round one, I don't believe it will be the BPA. That's why I think they would take Shelton unless they drop back a few picks.

 

Cleveland has been said to be enamored with Shelton. They also hold the overall 12th, and 19th pick in the first round, and the 11th pick of the second round. Shelton will not be on the board by pick 12 so I suspect the Browns will try to move up. If the Giants made a trade and fell from the 9th to 12th pick, and pick up Cleveland's second round pick - I'd take it. And they could probably get La'el Collins and be sitting really pretty in the second round holding the 8th and 11th pick.

[Mr. P]

All of the players it seems likely for us to draft, I'd be pretty pumped to have them.

[Herc]

All I want is a pro bowler. I don't think that's too much to ask with the 9th pick

[gmenroc]

The other thing I've noticed about a lot of multiple round mocks is that the 3rd QB is getting selected shortly after our pick in the 2nd round. That could make our 2nd round pick pretty valuable for a team, that lost out on Mariota and Winston, looking to trade up for Hundley.

 

Just hoping that Hundley drops to our 2nd round pick, not because we should select him, but because of the ability to trade down and pick up an extra 4th this year and extra 4th or 5th next year.

 

I think a lot of what the Patriots do to be so successful in the draft is they accumulate as many picks as possible and then in free agency, the plug holes so that they don't enter into the draft with big time needs per se. To use a sinking ship analogy, they use FA to plug the holes and the draft to fill in the cracks. If the drafted player becomes the hole filler and the free agent becomes a crack filler, so be it - the ship is still afloat. It helps they manage the cap well. But accumulating picks allows for finding the player you want, where you want and it's something I think the Giants should start looking into.

[Sephiroth]

We're not taking Scherff. Reese has already gone on the record as saying he prefers "playmakers" over linemen, and there's going to be a lot of playmakers available at 9.

[CrazedDogs]

The other thing I've noticed about a lot of multiple round mocks is that the 3rd QB is getting selected shortly after our pick in the 2nd round. That could make our 2nd round pick pretty valuable for a team, that lost out on Mariota and Winston, looking to trade up for Hundley.

 

Just hoping that Hundley drops to our 2nd round pick, not because we should select him, but because of the ability to trade down and pick up an extra 4th this year and extra 4th or 5th next year.

 

I think a lot of what the Patriots do to be so successful in the draft is they accumulate as many picks as possible and then in free agency, the plug holes so that they don't enter into the draft with big time needs per se. To use a sinking ship analogy, they use FA to plug the holes and the draft to fill in the cracks. If the drafted player becomes the hole filler and the free agent becomes a crack filler, so be it - the ship is still afloat. It helps they manage the cap well. But accumulating picks allows for finding the player you want, where you want and it's something I think the Giants should start looking into.

 

Read some good things on Hundley too, there are some who think he'll end up as the best QB in this class.

 

And 100% agreed that the entire draft should be governed by BPA. If you're filling gaps in the roster via the draft, your team is screwed before the season even starts. Get mid-level free agents for gaps in the roster, and pick the best available prospects almost without regard to position in the draft.

[gmenroc]

Just read that Miami may be looking to move up into the top 10 (from 14)...that could be a viable trade down spot. Problem is, Miami doesn't have a 3rd rounder this year that would be about the adequate trade value for them to make that move. Would they give us their 2nd this year? That's a little steep a price I'd think. Could we take their 4th this year and 2nd next year? Perhaps. Trade value chart for draft picks generally excludes the following year, so those picks are difficult for fans to value.

[Nas]

Just read that Miami may be looking to move up into the top 10 (from 14)...that could be a viable trade down spot. Problem is, Miami doesn't have a 3rd rounder this year that would be about the adequate trade value for them to make that move. Would they give us their 2nd this year? That's a little steep a price I'd think. Could we take their 4th this year and 2nd next year? Perhaps. Trade value chart for draft picks generally excludes the following year, so those picks are difficult for fans to value.

 

a 3rd next year is fine by me.

[BleedinBlue]

Read some good things on Hundley too, there are some who think he'll end up as the best QB in this class.

 

And 100% agreed that the entire draft should be governed by BPA. If you're filling gaps in the roster via the draft, your team is screwed before the season even starts. Get mid-level free agents for gaps in the roster, and pick the best available prospects almost without regard to position in the draft.

I agree with drafting BPA in the first couple of rounds and maybe the 3rd....unless you are already set at QB.

 

I see skill players (QBs and WRs) as huge risks. I don't know what the stats are for QBs and WRs flaming out, but it has to be high. Not to mention that most QBs need a year or two on the bench before they are ready to wet their feet on the field. I think a team has to almost be desperate to burn a top 5 or even a top 10 pick on a skill player.

 

I think that overall, the draft is a crap shoot and nowhere is the risk higher than the first couple of rounds and especially at the skill positions. I would put a high emphasis on BPA in the first two rounds with this formula:

 

Athleticism(1-5) + Past Performance(1-5) + Character (1-5) + Durability (1-5) = choice [ex. 5+4+4+2=15].

 

If there's 3 guys available and all had outstanding college careers and combine results, they end up getting separated based on character and lack of injuries.

 

I think it was a wise move last year for the Giants to focus on team captains and squeaky clean players. Enough of the "he's great, but he's coming off a torn ACL", or "his back problems shouldn't be a problem", or "so he smokes a little weed...a lot of kids do"...or "he was young and stupid when he stole a car".

 

Back to the original premise:

 

Rounds 1 - 3 (use above formula excluding QBs)

Rounds 4 - 7 (choose with the idea of grooming them into NFL players over time - keeping an eye on a hole in specific positions is (IMO) necessary.

[NightFire]

Just read that Miami may be looking to move up into the top 10 (from 14)...that could be a viable trade down spot. Problem is, Miami doesn't have a 3rd rounder this year that would be about the adequate trade value for them to make that move. Would they give us their 2nd this year? That's a little steep a price I'd think. Could we take their 4th this year and 2nd next year? Perhaps. Trade value chart for draft picks generally excludes the following year, so those picks are difficult for fans to value.

 

With all the the talk of White if Cooper is still available at 9 it would make an interesting scenario for the Giants.

[Bigblue25]

We're not taking Scherff. Reese has already gone on the record as saying he prefers "playmakers" over linemen, and there's going to be a lot of playmakers available at 9.

Yep. I put him in my mock, but he's not taking him even though he's safe and he should. Reese will add another WR or pass rusher before going with the need.