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The erosion of Eli: The Giant problem with the franchise QB


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Lol I think his point was that theyve now overhauled the team through three coaching regimes and people continue to lose their jobs while Manninng and his need to have perfect weather, 7 seconds to decode a defense, superstar receivers and running back, and defenses in prevent all game for him to be successful inexplicably continues to keep his. While the rest of the team suffers and players careers are wasted.

 

I don't see how it's so "inexplicable"

 

The NFL doesn't have much talent at QB, teams hang onto anything resembling a starter.

 

Or I guess teams just choose not to find the talented QBs everywhere and keep playing the same shitty ones all the time.

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I don't see how it's so "inexplicable"

 

The NFL doesn't have much talent at QB, teams hang onto anything resembling a starter.

 

Or I guess teams just choose not to find the talented QBs everywhere and keep playing the same shitty ones all the time.

The Giants were in a position with multiple options to change the QB position. They chose not to. And I think Barkley was still the right pick.

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The Giants were in a position with multiple options to change the QB position. They chose not to. And I think Barkley was still the right pick.

 

How so?

 

Smith, Webb? Carr?

 

Like I said, if it was that easy to just "change the QB position" to something better, no team would be worrying about their QB.

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Release Manning, sign Cousins. Make a go at Bridgewater and give him a shot. Moving up two spots and drafting Lamar Jackson.

 

OH ok, just say random things about free agents and say the Giants should of got them.

 

I think the Giants should of traded up for Andrew Luck, because you know it could of happened.

 

Or the Giants should of traded up for Mahomes because that could of happened.

 

All have the same level of possibility as your scenarios.

 

Keeping Webb over Tanney.

 

Still does nothing to improve the QB position and I still don't understand the love affair with Webb, he's shown nothing more than the two we have.

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Everyone outside of Giants fans living in the past knew Manning was done. Now youre all afraid to admit Mcadoo was right.

 

MacAdoo didnt decide anything.

 

He was told by the owners to make a change.

 

He would of rode Eli the entire year if the FO didnt say anything to him and if it was his decision he would of stuck with Smith the rest of the year.

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MacAdoo didnt decide anything.

 

He was told by the owners to make a change.

 

He would of rode Eli the entire year if the FO didnt say anything to him and if it was his decision he would of stuck with Smith the rest of the year.

How do you know thats what happened?

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And your examples are disingenuous. But you know that.

 

We moved like two spots up to get Landon Collins. It was an option for Lamar Jackson. Trading a pick for Bridgewater was possible.

 

Luck? The Giants didnt need Luck at the time.

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MacAdoo didnt decide anything.

 

He was told by the owners to make a change.

 

He would of rode Eli the entire year if the FO didnt say anything to him and if it was his decision he would of stuck with Smith the rest of the year.

The article suggests it was exactly the opposite. That it was Mcadoos plan that he had gone over with the owners.
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How do you know thats what happened?

 

lol what? This is well known.

 

Mara, who made an unannounced appearance in the press room at the team facility in East Rutherford and took questions for about 16 minutes, said he initially approached general manager Jerry Reeseabout the possibility of looking at the other quarterbacks as the Giants plummeted out of playoff contention.

"I had a conversation with Jerry a week or two ago. I normally don't speak to the coach directly about which players are playing and which players aren't playing. I'll have that conversation with Jerry," Mara said. "I had mentioned to him a week or two ago, 'don't you think it's time we get a look at these other quarterbacks at some point during the games?' He agreed, and said he'd already had a conversation with Ben (McAdoo, the Giants' head coach) about that.

https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/11/john_mara_explains_why_he_signed_off_on_giants_ben.html

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And your examples are disingenuous. But you know that.

 

We moved like two spots up to get Landon Collins. It was an option for Lamar Jackson. Trading a pick for Bridgewater was possible.

 

Luck? The Giants didnt need Luck at the time.

 

So were yours, but you know that.

 

Was Jackson an option with Baltimore in play? Who was willing to trade more?

 

We traded away a plethora of riches for Eli, why wasnt Mahomes in play? Or any QB for the last few years as you put it in play? Since it was clearly a need.

 

Bridgewater was in play, but the Giants didnt need a back up QB, they had Webb who you hinted at, is an option at QB.

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lol what? This is well known.

Mara, who made an unannounced appearance in the press room at the team facility in East Rutherford and took questions for about 16 minutes, said he initially approached general manager Jerry Reeseabout the possibility of looking at the other quarterbacks as the Giants plummeted out of playoff contention.

"I had a conversation with Jerry a week or two ago. I normally don't speak to the coach directly about which players are playing and which players aren't playing. I'll have that conversation with Jerry," Mara said. "I had mentioned to him a week or two ago, 'don't you think it's time we get a look at these other quarterbacks at some point during the games?' He agreed, and said he'd already had a conversation with Ben (McAdoo, the Giants' head coach) about that.

https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2017/11/john_mara_explains_why_he_signed_off_on_giants_ben.html

Shit I hadnt seen this

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The previous regime thought ownership was on board with setting the life-after-Manning plan in motion. Co-owner John Mara knew in advance of the intentions, down to the last detail. But everything changed when the plan was met with push-back from the quarterback, fans and their Giants family.

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So were yours, but you know that.

 

Was Jackson an option with Baltimore in play? Who was willing to trade more?

 

We traded away a plethora of riches for Eli, why wasnt Mahomes in play? Or any QB for the last few years as you put it in play? Since it was clearly a need.

 

Bridgewater was in play, but the Giants didnt need a back up QB, they had Webb who you hinted at, is an option at QB.

There are young QBs in this league backing up veterans that will eventually be starters. Jimmy G was one. Similarly, Lauletta should be given a shot. Playoffs are out game 6 because Manning cant play.

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There are young QBs in this league backing up veterans that will eventually be starters. Jimmy G was one. Similarly, Lauletta should be given a shot. Playoffs are out game 6 because Manning cant play.

 

And I don't disagree.

 

But it's up to the coaches to find and groom those young players.

 

If it was just as simple as signing a 20 something fresh out of college and slapping him into the starting role, every team would be set.

 

Instead you end up with teams starting the Keenums of the world.

 

For the majority of starting QBs in the NFL, they dont take this road, they are usually drafted and starting within their first couple of years.

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Blue, I simply think that other franchises do much more to find QB successors. The Giants got lulled into complaceny and were blinded by nostalgia and swayed by fan hysteria. Its been long last time to move on. Most young guys could put up 13 points with this talent. It makes not difference if its Eli or them other than we know Eli wont be playing much longer.

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Bridgewater is currently a backup. I think he could start for a couple teams. The Giants topping that list. I also think he would start over Alex Smith and probably over Josh Allen.

 

But now it's just hindsight and what if scenarios.

 

Bridgewater could be better than Eli, or the same, or even worse.

 

What would shipping a pick out and eating Eli's massive contract over the next two years do for the team?

 

On one hand, if the Giants were suddenly playoff favorites with Bridgewater (highly doubtful with this Oline) then yes the trade and eating all that cap would be fine. and the fans could rejoice they did something.

 

What would it do though if we are in the same scenario with Bridgewater as we are now? Just putting the team furthur in a hole and the fans screaming about how the change was just for show.

 

You have to move on from Eli.

 

But you don't do it just for the sake of change, you do it when you know you have the QB you want, or feel would improve the team. not to just push it in some random direction hoping that it will turn out for the better.

 

It's why I've always said, you find a QB in the draft you think will win you games, you trade everything you have to get them, because QBs, franchise QBs don't come along every year.

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Blue, I simply think that other franchises do much more to find QB successors. The Giants got lulled into complaceny and were blinded by nostalgia and swayed by fan hysteria. Its been long last time to move on. Most young guys could put up 13 points with this talent. It makes not difference if its Eli or them other than we know Eli wont be playing much longer.

 

And I understand where you're coming from.

 

I just feel like most of these other franchises just luck into the right situation most of the time.

 

The Chiefs are obviously an example every team wants, a traded vet being sent out for the rookie you spent a boat load on to bring in and be successfull.

 

But then you have a situation like the Cowboys, they get lucky with an undrafted Romo, into a fourth round pick in Dak.

 

I feel like the Chiefs situation is the more common one in the NFL, you go for the highly rated and drafted QB to bring you success, instead of hoping to get lucky like the Cowboys did.

 

I mean look at all 32 teams in the NFL, most of them have a QB starting who was a high round draft pick, well most of the successful ones anyways.

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I just honestly dont think that the Giants path to next franchise QB was to get rid of their second year prospect. You can call that hindsight but I think that its justified criticism.

 

And I dont think, with the talent on this team, that banking on a first year rookie next year to come in and start is the right plan either. Literally, the worst thing that could happen has happened. Manning ran out of gas really three games into the season. And now their stuck with a journeyman backup and a guy they arent dressing. And Manning. Who has been done for a while.

 

Now, if there is a Mahomes type player, Id be fine starting him day 1. Mahomes is going to be league MVP this year when the dust settles.

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